Rick Perry will reportedly ‘make clear’ he’s running for president on Saturday

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
There are some people that can't think beyond right now that sold and lost a lot of money, I also think there are a lot of people that see long term and just became millionaires.

Yep... and they will be paupers again tomorrow.

Ultimately, the ones "who can't think beyond right now" will be ahead of the game. This market is being artificially held up by the banks, with money they got from the bailout. It's only a matter of time, til the house of cards comes down.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
The voters will have to make a choice - four more years of Obama's socialism and disastrous economic policies or take a chance on an openly religious conservative president that will be working with at least one side (but probably both) of Congress that has a Republican majority.

Well see we already have had an openly religious alleged conservative in office who gave us a lot of what you and others seem to think is Obama's socialism. What I think matters is to have a president who isn't going to pander to the religious right of this country who in fact are as bad, if not worse than those on the left.

As for a republican majority in congress, I am still thinking that UNLESS the RNC gets it together and puts/allows new blood to be injected into the party and congress, there will be the same distrust as there is now with every republican and democrat member of congress. IN other words, they had their chance and blew it.

Both parties MUST go through the primary process to pick a candidate - even if one has a sitting president who has no opposition. Both parties pander to different groups such as evangelicals, unions, Hispanics, homosexuals - that's political reality.

Actually that is not true.

There is no law that says they have to and until the early part of the 20th century, only a few states had primaries and others sent delegates to the convention to select a candidate. IT is a party thing, not a election thing. They, the RNC can easily say - X is our man who we want to run and we are also having Y run as VP and that is all that is needed. NO one has said there can't even be a democrat as VP which I think would be great not to have a bundled ticket but a choice.

The activity of the Market matters a lot more now that it did in 1929, and it's influence is global in nature. If it drops 40% we'll have a Bad Depression on our hands, and it will happen in a matter of weeks, not years. Companies can not lose that amount of capital worth without serious repercussions.

Well the thing I see is that it doesn't actually matter.

First politics moved faster in '29 than today, they could have and did passed bills without the issues we have today. The depression was triggered in '29 but not happening as bad as it could have been. It took the same amount of time for it to form than our recession did and would have been a recession if Hoover (like Obama) would have just left it all alone.

The stock market isn't an indicator of how the economy is going but it is an indicator for people's investments which those who worry about it don't live by one rule of trading - the money you put into it is money you can afford to lose. As stated a 40% loss would not kill the economy, BUT a 40% change in commodities or in bonds would because we depend on those two other vehicles to actually move the economy. Case in point is Ford, they lost money in the stock market not because the market was down but because their product line sucked and the consumer and investor alike felt they were going to tank. While at the same time GE and Pfizer stock didn't dip as much as Ford's 75% loss over the same period.

How did that affect Ford's operation?

IT didn't at all.

If you want another example, look into the history of Federal Mogul.

So outside of the IPOs used to create capital and those reissues of stock/buy backs, the market doesn't reflect unemployment, housing losses, or what matters most - confidence.

There were a lot of people that were aware of Obama's record (what there was of it) that clearly established him as the most liberal member of the congress - moreso than Kucinich, Clinton or Kennedy. However, the MSM ignored not only this record, but the fact that he had no accomplishments or experience whatsoever. What's more, there were a lot of ignorant voters that didn't care - they were more concerned with the wrapping than the contents of the package.

Well first we all know what Obama is/was/going to be and people voted for him. Maybe many are stupid/dumb/clueless but a lot of others are not and that's is where painting everyone with a broad paint brush makes people of the opposition look rather dumb. I don't care and you shouldn't care how liberal he is, what you should focus on is how liberal the republicans have become to gain favor of those who are dumb in order for them to get those votes - I think that is pandering.

Those in the RNC to whom you refer are mostly the Rockefeller Republicans - the ones who were responsible for McCain getting the nomination in '08. Of course the Democrats will make the ridiculous claim that he's unbeatable - what else are they going to say (in public anyway). Any other president with Obama's record would be regarded as unelectable and would be under intense pressure from his party to withdraw from the race - just as LBJ did and Carter should have done. The right candidate will defeat Obama in a landslide, with even a reasonably decent campaign.

BUT again it isn't just dems who are saying he is hard to beat but republicans too. Outside the mainstream conservative media, it seems the rnc has been warned before and this time is it no different - they have to change direction and distances themselves from those good ol' boys and girls who bring to government the same thing over and over and over.
 

tbubster

Seasoned Expediter
Greg who keeps saying this that the RNC needs to just pick someone now and run with it?The way you make it sound is that This is what most of the party wants yet other then a few no one is calling for it to be done this way.

Also love how you are counting out a challenger from within Obamas own party.As more and more liberial are now saying and talking about how Obama is not tough enough,or his caving or his lack of true leadership.IMHO I feel Obama was able to fool millions of people due to his lack of a record.This time around though he has a record and not a very good one,one that even the most liberal is having a hard time of defending him.dont think that if Obama's numbers keep falling and the DNC start feeling like Obama is gonna get beat that they will not chose To have some one else on the ticket.I mean they did try to do this against Carter using Ted kenndy.:D

c30214335b7f4ff49dfc5ebe566a0831.jpg
 
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aristotle

Veteran Expediter
Yes, everyone makes mistakes. However, certain mistakes do negate one's credibility more than others. In Perry's case, The gardisil executive order kills any Libertarian credibility he ever had.
Why would Rick Perry pretend to have Libertarian views? Perry is not a Libertarian. He couldn't get to first base portraying himself in that light.

Insofar as I can discern, Perry has matured over a period of time to become a strong conservative voice. His entry into the presidential race will give us more choice. Perry provides a stark contrast to the Obama socialist agenda. There are no perfect candidates and I would probably find myself in agreement with Perry's positions maybe 80% of the time. We should be on guard not to allow the perfect to become the enemy of the good. Perfection is not possible in human affairs.

Removing Obama from the White House must be Job One. Any of the GOP contenders, including Ron Paul, would be a monumental improvement. Give Obama four more years in office and we would hardly recognize this nation.
 

Camper

Not a Member
Why would Rick Perry pretend to have Libertarian views? Perry is not a Libertarian. He couldn't get to first base portraying himself in that light.

Well, that's my point, exactly. He isn't a Libertarian and what the party needs is someone who actually walks the walk with respect to free market principles and individual freedoms.

Until the party embraces a libertarian platform, I see no difference between the Republicans and the Democrats other than the opposite ends of the spectrum they pander to regarding the social issues.



Posted with my Droid EO Forum App
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Greg who keeps saying this that the RNC needs to just pick someone now and run with it?The way you make it sound is that This is what most of the party wants yet other then a few no one is calling for it to be done this way.

Well it took me a bit to figure out what you are saying for some reason but here is the thing, they are going to fall on their a** because they have been indecisive and compromising on key issues, like last year's budget, the debt ceiling and a number of other things that they claim they stand solid on. The other thing is the voter, the ones who matter are the independents and it seems many of them just see the republican party as nothing but the democrat party with a different name - same style of politics, pretty much the same policies and like the past they failed the people when they controlled congress and the wh.

Also love how you are counting out a challenger from within Obamas own party.As more and more liberial are now saying and talking about how Obama is not tough enough,or his caving or his lack of true leadership.

OK so you are hoping/praying that someone within his own party will pull a stunt and try to topple him?

Seriously it won't happen unless the country dives directly into a serious depression and we see 50% unemployment. His lack of leadership isn't all coming from the disenchanted dems but mostly from the right as an attack on him.

IMHO I feel Obama was able to fool millions of people due to his lack of a record.This time around though he has a record and not a very good one,one that even the most liberal is having a hard time of defending him.

Well OK I guess he fooled all of you but he didn't fool me or many others.

WE all knew his record BEFORE the election and it was and still talked about now for some reason (maybe because no one can come up with anything new?). No one seems to have a hard time defending him because no one is actually defending him, they are deflecting back to congress including Obama himself.

Call it stupid but many call it shrewed and his invoking the "I inherited ..." thing is rather old but useful (and if by chance someone does get elected other than him - they will repeat those exact words and that will show the lack of leadership on their part).

You know the funny thing is that many keep bringing these same old things up and not focus on is how liberal the republicans have become to gain favor of those who are dumb in order for them to get those votes - I think that is pandering.


dont think that if Obama's numbers keep falling and the DNC start feeling like Obama is gonna get beat that they will not chose To have some one else on the ticket.I mean they did try to do this against Carter using Ted kenndy.:D

Well the DNC doesn't seem to be a bit nervous and that is what I am saying. When they are starting to focus on not the president's campaign but rather looking and talking about congress, it is a sign. They are already going after the tea party in preparing for a hard congressional campaign.

But alas, I don't think many get this part, the rnc has a bad habit of screwing things up because they are trying to appease internal people first and running campaigns with the idea of being fair. The reason a few repubs and dems have said they need to pick someone is because they are going to have to run a hard campaign and start early, not after the primaries and not without having the FULL and COMPETE backing of the entire party which they will not get by going through the primary - as they did with Dole, Bush, McCain and many of the congressional candidates.

Honesty you are all funny, repeating the same thing and thinking that there is going to be a superstar who will "knock" Obama out of the WH. I hope there is but I just don't see it with anyone who calls themselves republican at this moment.

Well, that's my point, exactly. He isn't a Libertarian and what the party needs is someone who actually walks the walk with respect to free market principles and individual freedoms.

Until the party embraces a libertarian platform, I see no difference between the Republicans and the Democrats other than the opposite ends of the spectrum they pander to regarding the social issues.

This says a lot ...
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Why would Rick Perry pretend to have Libertarian views? Perry is not a Libertarian. He couldn't get to first base portraying himself in that light.

Insofar as I can discern, Perry has matured over a period of time to become a strong conservative voice. His entry into the presidential race will give us more choice. Perry provides a stark contrast to the Obama socialist agenda. There are no perfect candidates and I would probably find myself in agreement with Perry's positions maybe 80% of the time. We should be on guard not to allow the perfect to become the enemy of the good. Perfection is not possible in human affairs.

Removing Obama from the White House must be Job One. Any of the GOP contenders, including Ron Paul, would be a monumental improvement. Give Obama four more years in office and we would hardly recognize this nation.

I probably agree with most of his agenda as well. But when he had a chance to do something, he sat on his hands. I think it was all postering about secession and creating an amendment to limit the federal government. He did NOTHING. IMO, he is another RINO. He will cater to the conservatives until election time, then he'll come up with his own socially liberal ideas to make people go "Aww... he DOES care!" IOW, he's a politician. We need a statesman!
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I think Congressmen should wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers so we could identify their corporate sponsors.:D


It's not whether you win or lose,
but how you place the blame.
 

tbubster

Seasoned Expediter
Thats right Greg.Im wrong your right and the republicans and the tea party will Lose their **S next year.YEAH OK!!!!

What you faild to comment on was it happening to carter.What you fail to remember is a man by the name of Ralph Nader.The same guy that many many many democrats belive cost gore the 2000 election.The same guy that many many many Democrats say cost Kerry many votes in 2004.maybe you did not see last week where he said he will have a challenger for the democratic nomination.No you may not see him as a threat ,you may not belive that millions of democrats are very unhappy with obama.He is and they are.

You see Nader has some backing that Obama enjoyed in 08 and still does to a point.Environmentalist,Unions and some of the big name hollywood types that think what they have to say really matters.Even though to many democrats what they say does matter.Perhaps the biggest name is Michael Moore,Not a real big fan of Obama that one.Moore is also a good friend of another mouth peice matt damon.You know the same one Who went on CNN and said he is no fan of Obama.this is the same guy that was all about Obama in 08.Why the change well obama has not kept many of the promises he made.Can anyone say a movie from Moore Showing Obama for what he really is.Matt Damon stands up for teachers Obama flip flops on teachers.Damon through moore becomes a fan of nader what do you think happens?

Many of the millions who Wanted clinton are now saying out loud and in public that they should have stuck with her.I know I know no way well think about it this is hillary clinton and if she belives for a minute she could take the nomination from Obama and then make history she is going to be all over it.And dont for get many of the millions that still refer to bill clinton being sdo good for the country(even though they are wrong) will know that even though Hillary would be in charge Good ole Bill is still gonna be there.

You dont think these will come into play?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-broken/

I think its funny the writing is on the wall and you refuse to see it.I for one was not Fooled by Obama I voted for McCain.Now I know no matter what I say you will not agree with me.You have to many post slaming republicans and the tea party.The one thing I do agree with you on is I dont like thewhole "COMPROMISE". However I also know that while we have the system we have now there has to be COMPROMISE.
You see with out compromise the tea party does not even get the chance in the next election to grow their numbers in washington.Think about it how better to show the independent voters they are not as bad and as evil as the democrats want you to belive.Yeah dont compromise and show the country that Obama and the democrats are right about you.Yeah that will really help the teaparty movement.

You never answerd my question on who all these people and groups are that are saying the RNC needs to just pick some one and be done with it!
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Well see we already have had an openly religious alleged conservative in office who gave us a lot of what you and others seem to think is Obama's socialism.
Granted, the Bush administration gave us the Medicare Rx drug plan, which nobody understands to this day.
But Bush's policies could in no way be confused with Obama's policies implemented since he took office - we're talking about a night and day difference in policy and the cost of its implementation.
They, the RNC can easily say - X is our man who we want to run and we are also having Y run as VP and that is all that is needed. NO one has said there can't even be a democrat as VP which I think would be great not to have a bundled ticket but a choice.
If you really think this is possible I suggest you do some research on how the American political system works in today's world. Talk about cronyism - you're advocating it in the worst possible scenario. Plus a split ticket to boot? Don't you realize presidential candidates choose their running mates? How many states do you think allow people to vote split tickets for president and VP under any circumstances? This subject matter shouldn't even be part of the discussion because it's totally divorced from reality.
Case in point is Ford, they lost money in the stock market not because the market was down but because their product line sucked and the consumer and investor alike felt they were going to tank. While at the same time GE and Pfizer stock didn't dip as much as Ford's 75% loss over the same period.
How did that affect Ford's operation?
IT didn't at all.
Ford is privately held
I don't care and you shouldn't care how liberal he is, what you should focus on is how liberal the republicans have become to gain favor of those who are dumb in order for them to get those votes - I think that is pandering.
My point exactly - the McCain faction was trying to be Democrat light. The GOP needs to run a campaign based on strong conservative principles.
BUT again it isn't just dems who are saying he is hard to beat but republicans too...
A few Republicans want to say that, just to be PC and to play the respect game for the first semi-black president. The fact is he's developing the worst record of any American president in history, in every aspect of the presidency. What needs to be emphasized is that record and his unrealistic, radically liberal philosophy combined with an unprecedented incompetence in leadership that has resulted in the mess in which we find ourselves both at home and abroad. We need a candidate that will present a vision for economic recovery and at the same time call attention to the overwhelming failures of the current administration.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Thats right Greg.Im wrong your right and the republicans and the tea party will Lose their **S next year.YEAH OK!!!!

Well first don't make the two equal to each other, the republican party seems to be the vehicle of the tea party to get their foot in the door - just like Ron Paul has become a republican to introduce his and the libertarian values into a vehicle that allows him to be more exposed to the country.

What you faild to comment on was it happening to carter.What you fail to remember is a man by the name of Ralph Nader.The same guy that many many many democrats belive cost gore the 2000 election.The same guy that many many many Democrats say cost Kerry many votes in 2004.maybe you did not see last week where he said he will have a challenger for the democratic nomination.No you may not see him as a threat ,you may not belive that millions of democrats are very unhappy with obama.He is and they are.

I didn't fail to comment on Carter, there wasn't a need to comment, his plight is not the same as Obama's, the times are not the same as it was in 1978 and the situation is far removed to what we have today. His problem was a lack of support because he crapped all over the dems in congress on several occasions while ignoring the "advice" of the dems in power - in other words being a spoiled kid in the WH - there is a lot more but not worth going into because it does not matter. The shift in attitude became apparent in the '80 election but was long before that the dems made up their mind.

Nader was never a threat - Gore lost the election because his president refused to endorse him or did at first. Kerry lost because of his arrogance and stupidity, people didn't want a king. Nader didn't split to democratic vote, he was running as an independent if I am not mistaken and his 'group' would have written him in anyway - he has had a strong following of a small group of people.

There is a BIG difference between being unhappy and hating the guy. Many are unhappy but they still support him and the dems already have decided to back Obama. I think the turn out for votes will not be increased on the dems side but more will come out to to vote and those will be undecided until they step into the booth and vote.

You see Nader has some backing that Obama enjoyed in 08 and still does to a point.Environmentalist,Unions and some of the big name hollywood types that think what they have to say really matters.Even though to many democrats what they say does matter.Perhaps the biggest name is Michael Moore,Not a real big fan of Obama that one.Moore is also a good friend of another mouth peice matt damon.You know the same one Who went on CNN and said he is no fan of Obama.this is the same guy that was all about Obama in 08.Why the change well obama has not kept many of the promises he made.Can anyone say a movie from Moore Showing Obama for what he really is.Matt Damon stands up for teachers Obama flip flops on teachers.Damon through moore becomes a fan of nader what do you think happens?

Damon and moore are idiots and those who follow them are idiots just the same. They will or may provide .005% of the votes but not enough to sway anyone.

Many of the millions who Wanted clinton are now saying out loud and in public that they should have stuck with her.I know I know no way well think about it this is hillary clinton and if she belives for a minute she could take the nomination from Obama and then make history she is going to be all over it.And dont for get many of the millions that still refer to bill clinton being sdo good for the country(even though they are wrong) will know that even though Hillary would be in charge Good ole Bill is still gonna be there.

Hillary will have to wait, she knows that she would lose big time and the dnc will not support her in this election.

You dont think these will come into play?

Yes and no. See promises that are made are promises but more or less the voting public as a while knows they will not come true, if they did, we would be in big trouble. THIS is pandering to groups and nothing more.

I think its funny the writing is on the wall and you refuse to see it.I for one was not Fooled by Obama I voted for McCain.

Well the writing on the wall hasn't changed in the last 30 years, and this is my contention - you all need to stop repeating things that were already known and start working on the stuff that matters. It isn't that I refuse to see anything, it was there long long ago when I said he was a marxist - maybe that was March of '08?

Now I know no matter what I say you will not agree with me.You have to many post slaming republicans and the tea party.The one thing I do agree with you on is I dont like thewhole "COMPROMISE". However I also know that while we have the system we have now there has to be COMPROMISE.

I slam those who are saying they will change and holding out hope that they will. The republican party is riding on the past, they have not changed with the times as the dems have, they are using the same strategy that they used when Reagan was president and politics were a game of compromise.

You see with out compromise the tea party does not even get the chance in the next election to grow their numbers in washington.Think about it how better to show the independent voters they are not as bad and as evil as the democrats want you to belive.Yeah dont compromise and show the country that Obama and the democrats are right about you.Yeah that will really help the teaparty movement.

See the word compromise does not mean to me that the republicans have to allow the dems a say, when the dems shut them down. It does not mean that they need to have idea that they will give into something in order for the dems to agree to something later on which later on never comes. It does not mean that we can just pass the debt ceiling or last years budget without this idea that they will be hated if the government shuts down. The word compromise means a lot more in the context of the republicans in congress.

You never answerd my question on who all these people and groups are that are saying the RNC needs to just pick some one and be done with it!

Just read. James Carval and others like him on the left have said this on CNN and on Fox a few of their contributors have repeated the same comment.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Granted, the Bush administration gave us the Medicare Rx drug plan, which nobody understands to this day.

Really, it is easy to understand and explain. Part-D was written by Pharma, the group that represents all the pharma companies in the country and at the time I worked for one of them, we knew what it was all about.

But Bush's policies could in no way be confused with Obama's policies implemented since he took office - we're talking about a night and day difference in policy and the cost of its implementation.

Sorry but yep a lot of them are comparable, Department of Homeland Security is one such thing and his policies that he created are still supported by Obama - why?

If you really think this is possible I suggest you do some research on how the American political system works in today's world. Talk about cronyism - you're advocating it in the worst possible scenario. Plus a split ticket to boot? Don't you realize presidential candidates choose their running mates? How many states do you think allow people to vote split tickets for president and VP under any circumstances? This subject matter shouldn't even be part of the discussion because it's totally divorced from reality.

Well OK I guess if you want to think it is that way but here is how it works.

There are two parts of this, one is the states who have the delegates to vote for a candidate that is selected at the state level at the party convention. The primary election which tells the delegates who to vote for as part of the facade of democracy. The fact is that the primary election is not needed, it is a party thing, not an election thing.

The second part is that the party itself is in control, in this case the Republican National Committee, and they can decide to change their minds and select a person which the states party chapters didn't want. Cronyism or not, this has been the way it has been for the last two centuries and not binding by our constitution. In fact our constitution doesn't mention parties.

What I am advocating is to return to the politics of the past to remove the facade that has been created to fool people by making it look like primaries are part of the "democratic process". It is like the election itself, it is made to look like we directly vote for a candidate but in fact our representatives vote to elect them. We don't and should not vote directly for our president but we should vote for our representative and this is where the problem sits when we have to think as the primaries just as important as the election itself.

BUT getting back to the republicans just selecting a candidate, they will fall flat on their a** because the fact is that these candidates and their opinions will again cloud the real issues for the people and people are really tired of politics which they will vote for the name - in this case Obama - and not for a republican.

Split ticket has been the way it was and there is nothing wrong with balance in the WH. Beside it would prevent us from having another bigot on the WH.


Ford is privately held

Wow - this must be 1951.

How do you feel about Eisenhower running for President?

There is talk that Adli Stevenson will run against him.

Ford is a publicly traded stock and has been since I think 1953. The Stock Ticker is F and I own some of the stock.

My point exactly - the McCain faction was trying to be Democrat light. The GOP needs to run a campaign based on strong conservative principles.

I think many independents want to see the republican candidate not be a "conservative" because that is not what they are looking for, they want someone with the same values that they have, which is not the conservative value as defined by the candidates. When invoking that word, conservative, a lot of people look at the religious right and think they are linked which Perry for one has already confirmed that it is. This goes to the heart of the issue with a lot of independents who feel that the crusades, abortion rights and gay marriage is not as important as jobs, economy and so on which is what the conservative party appears to actually stands for - continuing the crusades, end abortion and stop gay marriages.

In addition, many who remember are looking at the Gingrich congress and saying "well they gave us NAFTA so it looks like they want to just be about big business and not about people". There needs to be proof that conservatism is not like liberalism but there has not been much proof if any.

A few Republicans want to say that, just to be PC and to play the respect game for the first semi-black president. The fact is he's developing the worst record of any American president in history, in every aspect of the presidency. What needs to be emphasized is that record and his unrealistic, radically liberal philosophy combined with an unprecedented incompetence in leadership that has resulted in the mess in which we find ourselves both at home and abroad.

We need a candidate that will present a vision for economic recovery and at the same time call attention to the overwhelming failures of the current administration.

Well I would agree with you in '08 but now I think what needs to be done is NOT following the past play books of drumming home what the guy did and only addressing what can the candidate do for the country and how it will work.

Who cares what he has done, seriously, when people see a bleak outlook on our economy and their world.

Who cares about the incompetence of the administration - part of which is from the Bush administration and their policies.

IT does not matter because NOT one person is speaking about what has to be done to fix it, they all go back to what was done by Obama (which is in fact a lie) and brings up a rather individual position that they can fix it without proof that they can even lead.

Many need to look beyond what everyone already knows, which is Obams and congress (republican and democrat) both suck at running the country and we need change, serious and drastic change to get us back on track. We can't all act as if this 1980 with Carter running while the DNC is forcing him out but we need to act that the next guy running needs to actually convince the people that he and his party is not going to make the same mistakes and is united in fixing all the problems without the same thing happening in the past, compromising the future. That by the way is why I and others keep saying the republicans need to pick someone and be united behind them.

This isn't 1980 and we need to grow up a bit and get someone right from the start to say what he means and do what he says - but not one republican is there to do that.
 

tbubster

Seasoned Expediter
God you are funny but then I do laugh at most liberals when they speak of how the great one can not be beat.You see there are a few flaws in your reasoning.

Most voters do not comprehend that it is congress not the president that controll the spending.Case in point democratic voters continue to blame Bush for the countrys problems.Even though in the last 4 almost 5 years some of the worst in the history of this country the purse strings have been controlled by democrats.
Another case in point most voters think that Obamas first year in office was his budget.However thats not the case now is it.And that dont matter what matters is what the voters belive.His own partys leadership have called him out on the bush tax cuts for the wealthy/on the budget deal/on the debt ceiling deal.Those are going to make some great sound bites on TV and the democrat and independent voters will hear his own party leaders calling his leadership weak when dealing with republicans.

PolitiFact | The Obameter: Campaign Promises that are Promise Broken

You dont think these will be a big deal.Yet you refuse to see all of these were a huge part of that Hope and Change spew Obama promised.Alot of these are things that voters hold dear to their harts.these are the things voters will remember when it comes time to vote.

They will also remember Obama saying he is willing to make cuts to socical security/medicaid/medicare They will also remember that through Obama Care Obama cut 500 billion from medicare.Why are your pills costing you more money grandpa.Well sonny boy that president Obama lied to us and cut 500 billion from medicare/medicaid thats why:eek:

Obama in 08 talked about how the republicans are out for themselfs and the wealthy.Then he goes and makes the CEO of GE a top Advisor.The same guy Whos company despite record profits paid no taxes in 2010.And despite calls from his own party to get rid of the guy Obama is sticking with him.You really cant picture the ADS on TV.You see Greg the republicans are going to use this in a big way.A billion dollar company that does not pay their fair share and has sent thousands upon thousands of american jobs to china.Obama is in bed with.And that is what is going to matter to the voters.

Perhaps the one that will cost him the most is his promise to bring home all US TROOPS IN IRAQ within the first 16 months of him being elected/and to end the war in AFGHANISTAN.Yes he is planing on bringing troops home from afgainstan.However the truth is he is olny bringing home 2000 more troops then he himself sent over there after taking office.Then to top it off whats he do gets us involved in a third conflict,while saying to hell with the constitution.

You see greg the thing is now he really does have a record.A record that he is going to have to defend.That record is not a good one.You see Greg this record is what Nader will use against him.Nader has said the person He picks will run for the Democratic ticket.So even if the DNC does not back him its not really up to them anyway its up to the states delegates to decide and who tells them?That would be the voters.You see Greg this will force Obama to run the fight on two different sides.Perhaps the biggest thing is Obama does not have ACORN around this time.

COME ON NOW GREG I KNOW YOU CAN SAY IT OBAMA IS A ONE TERM PRESIDENT.:D
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Sorry but yep a lot of them are comparable, Department of Homeland Security is one such thing and his policies that he created are still supported by Obama - why?
In case you weren't paying attention, the Dept of Homeland Security was created as a consequence of the 911 attacks and the failures of our FBI and CIA. It's a firmly entrenched bureaucracy now and like all the others, it's here to stay. When was the last time you saw a govt agency dismantled - especially one this size? It ain't gonna happen. We can't even get rid of the Dept of Energy or the Dept of Education.
Well OK I guess if you want to think it is that way but here is how it works...
The fact is that the primary election is not needed, it is a party thing, not an election thing.
That's NOT "how it works". How it works is that state primaries have become an integral part of our political system. You can wander off into the theoretical tall grass all you want, but that thought exercise is futile and irrelevant. State primaries are here to stay, and that's not going to change.
What I am advocating is to return to the politics of the past to remove the facade that has been created to fool people by making it look like primaries are part of the "democratic process".
It is like the election itself, it is made to look like we directly vote for a candidate but in fact our representatives vote to elect them.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but by the nature of their evolution, state primaries are part of the political process. Integrated with the primaries are the development of grass roots organizations, FUND RAISING, and the use of modern media for candidates to get their message out and develop national name recognition. Nobody is trying to "fool the people", and most everyone - except for perhaps some fairly recent graduates of the public school system and certain illegal Mexicans - realizes they aren't voting directly for the candidates. It sounds to me like you want to repeal the 12th Amendment and go back to the days of Jefferson & Adams.
BUT getting back to the republicans just selecting a candidate, they will fall flat on their a** because the fact is that these candidates and their opinions will again cloud the real issues for the people and people are really tired of politics which they will vote for the name - in this case Obama - and not for a republican.
I've read the above run-on sentence several times now, and it just doesn't make any sense. I'll say again, the GOP selection process is in the beginning stages and they will not have a clear and concise platform until the nominee is chosen. However, even at this early stage the Gallup Poll has Obama LOSING to a generic Republican 47% to 39%. Romney is already in a dead heat with Obama according to the Real Clear Politics Average, and he hasn't hardly even begun to campaign. Obama is well on his way to developing the worst record ever - worse than Carter - in every aspect of a presidency be it domestic, foreign or economic. Unemployment is in the mid-teens and his oppressive policies and regulations will make sure it stays there until Nov of 2012. People know who the president is, and he's the one they're going to blame. What would make you think that anyone (besides the blacks or the hardcore left) would vote FOR Obama just because they recognize his name??? If anything, that would be the primary reason to vote AGAINST him.
Split ticket has been the way it was and there is nothing wrong with balance in the WH. Beside it would prevent us from having another bigot on the WH.
It's been a loooong time since we've had a split ticket in the White House, and for good reason. First of all, we don't need "balance" between the President and his VP. They should complement each other and work as a team, but they dam sure don't need to have differing political philosophies and allegiances. Having it your way could have resulted in a George Bush/John Edwards team in the W/H - how well would that have worked out?? That's why we have checks and balances between the three branches of govt for "balance".
When invoking that word, conservative, a lot of people look at the religious right and think they are linked which Perry for one has already confirmed that it is. This goes to the heart of the issue with a lot of independents who feel that the crusades, abortion rights and gay marriage is not as important as jobs, economy and so on which is what the conservative party appears to actually stands for - continuing the crusades, end abortion and stop gay marriages.
That's the way conservatives are portrayed and labeled by the liberal Democrats - bible thumping hicks that "turn to their religion and guns" because they're too stupid to comprehend the brilliance of Barack Hussein Obama and the "fairness" of his socialist ideals. The MSM and the entertainment industry have been promoting this stereotype for years, and it sounds like you've consumed the koolaid. I'll bet a lot of these "independents" are far more conservative than people realize, and they demonstrated that at the polls in 2010.
There needs to be proof that conservatism is not like liberalism but there has not been much proof if any.
We've had almost three years of liberalism, with the first two being governed by the most liberal congress and president in history. Having experienced that, anyone who can't tell the difference between conservatism and liberalism is either beyond hope or not paying attention.
Who cares about the incompetence of the administration - part of which is from the Bush administration and their policies.
We had all better care about the incompetence of the administration if we want this country to continue to provide the way of life that made it great. And sorry, the "blame Bush" excuse doesn't work any more. The Democrats had control of both houses of congress the last two years of Bush's term, and they had a SUPER MAJORITY in Congress plus the presidency up to 2010 when they lost majority in the House. They had two years to fix anything or enact everything they desired. Our current mess is an Obama/Democrat mess, and there's no getting around that fact.
IT does not matter because NOT one person is speaking about what has to be done to fix it, they all go back to what was done by Obama (which is in fact a lie) and brings up a rather individual position that they can fix it without proof that they can even lead.
This isn't 1980 and we need to grow up a bit and get someone right from the start to say what he means and do what he says - but not one republican is there to do that.
It's pretty easy to itemize Obama's failures, in spite of the fact that he refuses to take responsibility for any of them. He isn't going to be able to run on his record, so he'll blame his problems on anything and everything else and promise the country there's more Hope and Change on the way - just give him more time. But there's no reason his opponents shouldn't hold him accountable - they have every right to do that, and every past president has been held to that same standard.
The current list of GOP candidates are outlining a vision for the future, and several of them have very good records as executives in business and leaders in politics. It's too bad the selection process takes so long as it does, but that's just the real world of American politics. It's a far better process than going back to having a few RNC bigwigs meet in a smoke-filled room to simply declare a candidate. The American public would never stand for that in this day and age.
 

tbubster

Seasoned Expediter
So Greg you would like to see a split ticket????????????????

I could be wrong but that sure does sound like it would take ALOT of compromise from both partys on that ticket.The same kind of compromise that you keep saying is so bad.:eek:
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
God you are funny but then I do laugh at most liberals when they speak of how the great one can not be beat.You see there are a few flaws in your reasoning.

Wow, I'm a liberal?

I thought I was a classic liberal which means I do believe in some libertarian values but also believe that the role of government has to limited allowing the people to chart their own course while at the same time has a constructive purpose in limiting harmful things in our society, like discrimination in publicly traded companies (one example). I also strongly believe that both liberals and conservatives are the same when it comes to telling people what to do. I mean the liberals all force fairness while the conservatives all force lifestyle issues onto people.

I also believe the bedrock is property rights with not a bit of intervention by another individual or community or government to do what I want with my property. THIS includes to Layout's shock, draining of wetlands or what ever I want.

I also believe in communities helping those within the communities but because our society - not government - has destroy our communities and left us with a rather "individual over the collective" style attitude, we need something to fill the gaps. WHICH neither the conservative or the liberal segments of our population are willing to rectify.

Liberal I am not, I can assure you that but on the other hand I see many many people who claim to be conservative are actually classic liberal/libertarian with their ideology but don't know the difference.

Most voters do not comprehend that it is congress not the president that controll the spending.Case in point democratic voters continue to blame Bush for the countrys problems.Even though in the last 4 almost 5 years some of the worst in the history of this country the purse strings have been controlled by democrats.

True to a point but our mass media (all inclusive) have fed that entire fallacy that the president is king.

Another case in point most voters think that Obamas first year in office was his budget.However thats not the case now is it.And that dont matter what matters is what the voters belive.His own partys leadership have called him out on the bush tax cuts for the wealthy/on the budget deal/on the debt ceiling deal.Those are going to make some great sound bites on TV and the democrat and independent voters will hear his own party leaders calling his leadership weak when dealing with republicans.

Well here is the thing, Obama like Bush like Clinton doesn't have a budget that is passed by the congress, which you already know. and like you said it doesn't matter because the mass media (all inclusive) have told us that it matters.

BUT with that said here is the difference between the republican party and the democratic party - UNITY.


PolitiFact | The Obameter: Campaign Promises that are Promise Broken

You dont think these will be a big deal.Yet you refuse to see all of these were a huge part of that Hope and Change spew Obama promised.Alot of these are things that voters hold dear to their harts.these are the things voters will remember when it comes time to vote.

Nope because Bush had the same number of promises as did Clinton and that other Bush (remember the "no new taxes - he didn't say no raising of taxes by the way) and it is all empty promises until they become bills to be passed by congress. outside of that - it is a moot point and does not matter.

On the other hand, his change thing fell flat on is face because come December of 2008, he learned the reality of the office and could not tell the people "ah ... I ... made a mistake" so again that was a campaign slogan and nothing concrete.

They will also remember Obama saying he is willing to make cuts to socical security/medicaid/medicare They will also remember that through Obama Care Obama cut 500 billion from medicare.Why are your pills costing you more money grandpa.Well sonny boy that president Obama lied to us and cut 500 billion from medicare/medicaid thats why:eek:

Well if I was in control, Medicare and Medicaid would see a billion in cuts.

Obama in 08 talked about how the republicans are out for themselfs and the wealthy.Then he goes and makes the CEO of GE a top Advisor.The same guy Whos company despite record profits paid no taxes in 2010.And despite calls from his own party to get rid of the guy Obama is sticking with him.You really cant picture the ADS on TV.You see Greg the republicans are going to use this in a big way.A billion dollar company that does not pay their fair share and has sent thousands upon thousands of american jobs to china.Obama is in bed with.And that is what is going to matter to the voters.

BUT see you also fell for his trap by the fact you are brining it up - you forgot he is a politician and nothing more and his actions are different from his words. Fair share? Oh come on GE passed every penny of their taxes onto the people who use their services and buy their products. As much as this seems to suck, it is congress and the IRS who have the rules on what is paid and what isn't - not the president.

Perhaps the one that will cost him the most is his promise to bring home all US TROOPS IN IRAQ within the first 16 months of him being elected/and to end the war in AFGHANISTAN.Yes he is planing on bringing troops home from afgainstan.However the truth is he is olny bringing home 2000 more troops then he himself sent over there after taking office.Then to top it off whats he do gets us involved in a third conflict,while saying to hell with the constitution.

Well let's see.

He had a meeting or series of meetings with Bush and the top advisors about a number of issues in December of 2008, at that time he learned what was really going on in Iraq and Afghanistan and followed the same course and policies set down by Bush. I bet he was told that Iraq was an Iranian destablisking action and we were making gains with Pakistan but not Afghanistan. BUT I digress... the problem now is the republicans have not taken him to task as a united group over Libya and let him slide which is no one's fault but the republicans.

I think our time in Afghanistan is over at this point, Iraq seems to be holding its own to a point but still didn't follow the course we set for them and we should be asking ourselves if we should now ask Iraq for the cost of running our operation over there but maybe we should ask ourselves why we didn't complete the job.

You see greg the thing is now he really does have a record.A record that he is going to have to defend.That record is not a good one.You see Greg this record is what Nader will use against him.Nader has said the person He picks will run for the Democratic ticket.So even if the DNC does not back him its not really up to them anyway its up to the states delegates to decide and who tells them?That would be the voters.You see Greg this will force Obama to run the fight on two different sides.Perhaps the biggest thing is Obama does not have ACORN around this time.

BUT see you are repeating things that don't matter.

we already knew what he was like, and what political ideology he had.

we already know that Nader has a snow balls chance in hell with the dems and the country won't even consider him.

AND we know that the dems will back him, unlike the republican party, they will unite with some desertion but they will support Obama because they know he will actually be easier to deal with than others in the party and already has the name and the votes behind him.

COME ON NOW GREG I KNOW YOU CAN SAY IT OBAMA IS A ONE TERM PRESIDENT.:D

I actually hope so but I am not counting on it unless the economy tanks - I mean tanks. On the other hand I don't see a single conservative republican who can beat him in an election without the economy tanking.
 

coppertone

Active Expediter
He would get my vote out of the current republican field. He stands the best chance of winning. If he picked Rubio as a running mate it would most likely bring Florida with it which is as close to a must win state as you will get.

Perry is way-too extreme in my opinion. He has declared twice that he wants Texas to leave the union (now there's real patriotism for ya!), always shouts STATES RIGHTS!, but he wants federal legislation and an ammendment to the constitution declaring gay marriage illegal. You can't cry for STATES RIGHTS! but want the federal government to interfere in your personal life. As for Rubio, I live in Florida and everyone I talk to are as impressed with him as they are with Gov. Rick Scott. That's not saying much!
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
In case you weren't paying attention, the Dept of Homeland Security was created as a consequence of the 911 attacks and the failures of our FBI and CIA. It's a firmly entrenched bureaucracy now and like all the others, it's here to stay. When was the last time you saw a govt agency dismantled - especially one this size? It ain't gonna happen. We can't even get rid of the Dept of Energy or the Dept of Education.

Did it solve the problem?

No, we have more problems internal, too much of a big system to deal with and leaks all over the place and on top of that the arrogance of organizations to be the one to do the job has increased.

I know it is here and will be for a bit but I also think we can get rid of some of it, the TSA is one part that really isn't needed for airports or ports. The airlines can take over the security and the port authorities can handle the ports.

BUT then we can't get rid of the education department even though the great leader Reagan promised to get rid of it and he didn't.

That's NOT "how it works". How it works is that state primaries have become an integral part of our political system. You can wander off into the theoretical tall grass all you want, but that thought exercise is futile and irrelevant. State primaries are here to stay, and that's not going to change.

Tell that to the FEC and those who have told me otherwise. They said what I posted, there are no laws that the party has to follow or requirements that say a vote has to take place in order to present a candidate for an election. They are the ones who regulate elections not me, even though it is a traditional practice, it is not something that every party practices. The party can choose anyone they want and I understand that they are here to stay but when we have an important election with a number of idiots and fools trying to get the nomination and a number of advisers on both side of the isle repeating the same thing, the primaries can be forsaken and the party can choose a candidate.

By the way, ever think that this is the problem with a two party system?

You ever think that this propagate the dumbing down of our voters by telling them the process is part of our "democratic society" while the fact is not many vote in primaries because they have no party affiliation?

Sorry to burst your bubble, but by the nature of their evolution, state primaries are part of the political process. Integrated with the primaries are the development of grass roots organizations, FUND RAISING, and the use of modern media for candidates to get their message out and develop national name recognition. Nobody is trying to "fool the people", and most everyone - except for perhaps some fairly recent graduates of the public school system and certain illegal Mexicans - realizes they aren't voting directly for the candidates. It sounds to me like you want to repeal the 12th Amendment and go back to the days of Jefferson & Adams.

Well I see you may be making my point about the present problems facing the republicans.

The primaries for the republicans may cloud the field and cause the problems for the voters because right now it is all confusing to those who are trying to pick out who is who and what they stand for, another reason why there is this sense of the republican party needs to pick someone and stand behind them now. Name recognition by the time the primaries are over will be the issue, Obama has his name out there for a time while the other candidate for the republican party will not and the dems have already ramped up their effort to trash the other guys without too much trouble.

I think a majority of voters actually think they do not understand how the president is picked or that the president is not king.

Nope not trying to repeal the 12th amendment but it does seem to reflect the idea that we can vote for the president and vp separately because those are two distinct votes in congress.

I've read the above run-on sentence several times now, and it just doesn't make any sense. I'll say again, the GOP selection process is in the beginning stages and they will not have a clear and concise platform until the nominee is chosen. However, even at this early stage the Gallup Poll has Obama LOSING to a generic Republican 47% to 39%. Romney is already in a dead heat with Obama according to the Real Clear Politics Average, and he hasn't hardly even begun to campaign. Obama is well on his way to developing the worst record ever - worse than Carter - in every aspect of a presidency be it domestic, foreign or economic. Unemployment is in the mid-teens and his oppressive policies and regulations will make sure it stays there until Nov of 2012. People know who the president is, and he's the one they're going to blame. What would make you think that anyone (besides the blacks or the hardcore left) would vote FOR Obama just because they recognize his name??? If anything, that would be the primary reason to vote AGAINST him.

Sorry for the grammar, BUT to clarify, they will do the same thing they did with McCain and the others who were in the field. people will get tired by the time the primaries are over with and have made up their minds.


it's been a loooong time since we've had a split ticket in the White House, and for good reason. First of all, we don't need "balance" between the President and his VP. They should complement each other and work as a team, but they dam sure don't need to have differing political philosophies and allegiances. Having it your way could have resulted in a George Bush/John Edwards team in the W/H - how well would that have worked out?? That's why we have checks and balances between the three branches of govt for "balance".

Well I think I can put this a better way, we should have a choice among the candidates within the party - not between two parties. Example Biden or Hillary for VP.

That's the way conservatives are portrayed and labeled by the liberal Democrats - bible thumping hicks that "turn to their religion and guns" because they're too stupid to comprehend the brilliance of Barack Hussein Obama and the "fairness" of his socialist ideals.

Well not exactly, this is way way beyond Obama and liberal dems. It goes to the heart of the people who insist on meeting with religious leaders while trying to speak to all "conservatives" at the same time.


The MSM and the entertainment industry have been promoting this stereotype for years, and it sounds like you've consumed the koolaid.

Well that's partially true, I don't know what the hell is the MSM but the media (all inclusive - meaning including Fox) has been promoting the same thing for years telling people what to think and how to think.

NOPE didn't drink the koolaide, just grown really tired of not having substance in these forums or in the media about what really is going on. A lot of BS is being spread about and no one seems to be talking the truth, it is either defending or ripping down Obama/congress while not saying anything useful or with substance.

I'll bet a lot of these "independents" are far more conservative than people realize, and they demonstrated that at the polls in 2010.

Absolutely not true, independents seem to be a lot like me, classic liberal/libertarian in our thoughts. Meaning that we want to see little government, be left alone to do what we want and none of this BS about a marriage amendment or any of the same "do as I tell you, not as I do" type of partisan politics. One reason why Ron Paul seems to be doing well in the republican party is simply because he is speaking to the independents and the conservatives who are actually classic liberals/libertarians.

We've had almost three years of liberalism, with the first two being governed by the most liberal congress and president in history. Having experienced that, anyone who can't tell the difference between conservatism and liberalism is either beyond hope or not paying attention.

Well we had more that 70 years of liberalism in our government, actually more than 110 years but who's counting.

The problem is that for the first time in a very long time we have had a liberal congress with accompanying liberal republicans who didn't pass everything the president wanted to pass and it wasn't because the republicans in congress but because the dems didn't follow suit to what the president wanted. I have to ask why should we even worry about this while in the previous congress, we had the same situation and the dems got a lot of things passed without any problems?

BUT going back to the issue, there seems to be no difference among many independents simply because liberal/conservatives look like they want to do the same exact thing - control people through government.

One example is the marriage amendment, as much as I feel marriage is between a man and a women, I do not want the federal/state government intervening into my life telling me a definition of marriage - it is not their place. Conservatives keep talking about small government and all that but when they bring up issues of a personal nature and talk about laws - they are acting just like liberals.

The same goes for the stink everyone makes about the liberals attacking Christianity, while at the same time many religious conservatives want to see Islam to be restricted like it is in other countries just because Muslims restrict Christians in their countries - all stupid reasoning which leads to pretty much a state religion through legislation. As much as this may sound liberal, it is not and I have yet heard many conservatives say this and stand by is - we all have the absolute right to practice our religion, PERIOD.

We had all better care about the incompetence of the administration if we want this country to continue to provide the way of life that made it great.

I think we are a bit too late on that. THIS happened to start under Bush and Bush could have done more to strengthen the country but failed to do so.

My comment isn't a bash Bush one but reality, see it was under his watch with a republican congress that we saw the formulation of the the recession we are in with the trigger of the housing bubble, no one else can say otherwise. Under a republican president, we saw no one concerned over the accountability of those either in the administration or in congress (frank/dodd are just two) because as no one wants to admit to them breaking the laws, it is the same old gang that protects themselves, perpetuated by the same republican party who is trying to convince the country into thinking they can save us from Obama. SO yep the incompetence of the present administration is apparent to those who want to see it but the incompetence of the past administration seems to be either forgotten or defended while for people like me it is the same as it is now.

And sorry, the "blame Bush" excuse doesn't work any more. The Democrats had control of both houses of congress the last two years of Bush's term, and they had a SUPER MAJORITY in Congress plus the presidency up to 2010 when they lost majority in the House. They had two years to fix anything or enact everything they desired. Our current mess is an Obama/Democrat mess, and there's no getting around that fact.

See my above comments. BUT I will add, our current mess is NOT an Obama/Democrat mess, it is an equal blame all around - republican/democrat liberal/conservative.

Our current mess is an Obama/Democrat mess
It's pretty easy to itemize Obama's failures, in spite of the fact that he refuses to take responsibility for any of them. He isn't going to be able to run on his record, so he'll blame his problems on anything and everything else and promise the country there's more Hope and Change on the way - just give him more time. But there's no reason his opponents shouldn't hold him accountable - they have every right to do that, and every past president has been held to that same standard.

I understand you all seem to keep bringing up his record but really it won't matter.

Why?

Because he already did the shrewdest thing could be done - blamed congress.

Did Bush take responsibility for the housing bubble?

Our current mess is an Obama/Democrat mess
The current list of GOP candidates are outlining a vision for the future, and several of them have very good records as executives in business and leaders in politics. It's too bad the selection process takes so long as it does, but that's just the real world of American politics. It's a far better process than going back to having a few RNC bigwigs meet in a smoke-filled room to simply declare a candidate. The American public would never stand for that in this day and age.

OK outlining a vision means ****, we have had sooo many visions that it is sickening. BUT no one seems to think having a plan and sticking to is with reasoning behind the key points is what is needed. With those members of congress where have they introduce legislation to form that vision or plan?

Why do people keep equating with running a business with leadership that is needed to run a country?

Maybe this time the process will again fail and it will need going back to having a "few RNC bigwigs meet in a smoke-filled room to simply declare a candidate". I would like to see one person come to the table with strong leadership, ****** around with their visions or pandering to one or another group on the opposite side of the spectrum and just run. And it seems we actually need that this time around and a lot of people want it to happen.
 
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