Republicans Start To Cave
- Thread starter Pilgrim
- Start date
I did my part
Humble2drive
Expert Expediter
The reality is that the big money failed. A simple video produced at zero cost revealed more about Romney's beliefs than all the commercials and appearances did.
There you go with the free gifts again. If you truly believe that the majority doesn't have a reason to vote Republican simply because they don't provide free gifts then who will you vote for in the next election and why?
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Bingo ...
It's an interesting phenomena ... and given the frequency with which it is employed by the individual in question (and others), it apparently serves as a mechanism to avoid having to deal with the broader issues as to why the candidate and Party he pulled the lever for lost ...
It appears to be a fallacy of this type:
"Thought-terminating cliché – a commonly used phrase, sometimes passing as folk wisdom, used to quell cognitive dissonance, conceal lack of thought-entertainment, move onto other topics etc. but in any case, end the debate with a cliche—not a point."
Of course, the fact that it is self-validating is an additional bonus ...
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The Republicans got painted into a corner, and so did the Tea Party which backed so many Republicans. The idea that the party is all about tax breaks for the rich, and little else didn't do them any good. If the Republican party wants to be a force in the future, they've got to break from the "Country Club" element. Those guys are content to lose so long as they have a place at the best parties and so on, but they never have and never will give a rip about the rest of us. Romney was seen by many as a "Country Club" backed candidate with no real ideas (or anything else much that was real) and even then he managed to force a close race with Obama. What if we had a candidate that WASN'T seen as a marionette of the money classes. It might be that Obama would be packing his bags to move back to Chicago in January right now, instead of settling in for his second term.
We have two years until the next House elections. Four years until the next Presidential elections. If the only choice on the table continues to be Democrat or Republican, with third-party options being considered wasted votes, we're going to keep getting what we've been getting. And we're going to keep complaining about it. The Democratic and Republican parties no longer serve the people, they don't have to and they know it. They feed you pablum to get you to vote for them, but that's it.
We have two years until the next House elections. Four years until the next Presidential elections. If the only choice on the table continues to be Democrat or Republican, with third-party options being considered wasted votes, we're going to keep getting what we've been getting. And we're going to keep complaining about it. The Democratic and Republican parties no longer serve the people, they don't have to and they know it. They feed you pablum to get you to vote for them, but that's it.
The reality is that as long as people who are fed up with the two major parties continue to vote for those parties, no third party will get any real national recognition. The Democratic and Republican parties want people to believe that a third party vote is a wasted voted. To them it is a wasted vote. If a third party started to get some traction and national attention, it would siphon off not only votes, but money from the Republicans and Democrats.
A belief that a third party vote is a wasted vote becomes self-fulfilling and keeps the two major parties in power, which is exactly the way they like it!
That is where the fallacy concept goes out the window. Have to look at the whole picture. It cost zero to make the video on Romney but they spent millions promoting it. Those millions a third party wouldn't come close to having. And....have to remember, Obama only won by 3.5 million votes. Hardly a landslide.
As to who to vote for in the next election, that is the million dollar question. The winner will be the one offering those gifts. Have to remember by then, over half the population will be recieving benefits of some sort. Some derserved and others not. Won't change the problem though. A third party could siphone off some cash but based on this election, a percentage point or two of the electorate doesn't cut it. Could happen at some point, but we are decades away from that.
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RLENT
Veteran Expediter
... he says as he prepares to pull another yet fallacy out of his bag of tricks ...
This would seem to be another one of those "correlation equals causation" fallacies ... since it assumes that the money spent using the video in TV ads was absolutely necessary to achieve the electoral result - and that news coverage of it was not enough ...
And what does that have to do with the point Humble2Drive was making ?
Thanks, I rarely get accused of making sense and never of making too much sense.
It was mostly the billion dollar campaign with a compliant lamestream media that pretty much won him the election. A couple of other things helped: 1, Obama' s campaign was able early on to spend huge amounts of money, particularly in battle ground states to paint Romney as a rich, out of touch, uncaring person, who also hates old people and puppies. Looking at some of the posts on here,some lapped it and bought it hook line and sinker. Romney, after the primary, was restricted from spending money to run ads to counter that. 2) The dems and the liberal media demagogued the 47% comment to death and basically took it out of context from what he was saying. It also played into the narrative that Obama cares more about people. In addition to that was the Obama presidency's increase in food stamps,social security disability recipients, amnesty for illegal aliens by Executive action and other things. The choice was those things or Romney's promise of more jobs for people. They chose Santa over the Grinch.
The Phrase That Lost Romney the Election | RealClearPolitics
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Are you trying to wrestle the logical fallacy title and championship belt from the Turkey Choker or something ?
The above is a straw man argument - that isn't my position at all.
The fact is you can't say that money made the difference ... unless you ignore the fact that Romney and the Republicans spent a snot load of it as well ... all to no avail ...
So it must be something else ...
(I now await the inevitable "free stuff" cliche ...
)
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You just might be on to something there...
Voting D/R in the primaries is wasting your vote. In the current world, not voting D/R at the national level in the general election is wasting your vote. It's unfortunate but it's the status quo. Building a third party is a great goal and if it's built from a foundation upward it has a better chance than trying to make one appear from the top down. I'm sure the $100 million more spent by the Obama campaign had zero effect on the outcome.
In that case: I don't want to hear any more complaining. If you keep doing the same thing repeatedly, you're going to keep getting the same result repeatedly. Why should the D/R parties care? They've got you believing their BS and that's all that matters. Both major parties put up mediocre candidates because that's all they have to do to get elected or re-elected.
Now, I've had a bellyful of both of them. I've got two years to figure out who to vote for in the next House elections, and possibly a Senate race too (I don't remember off the top of my head, but I think one of my senators is up for election in two years). Voting D/R is clearly wasting my vote since these guys (and gals now) don't give a hoot about us except at election time anyway. So, let's see who else is out there. In four years there's a presidential race, with a rather lame VEEP running against whoever else shows up. Maybe, just maybe, we can get out of the D/R morass. I hope so, for our nation's sake.
That's exactly it. The idea that money played no part and is a "fallacy" is hilarious.
I don't believe I have ever heard a campaign manager ever say on a national level, "We can win this even though we are broke".
BTW...I like the Santa over the Grinch comparison.
Don't forget all the "campaign trips" Obama made courtesy of the taxpayers. He made over 90 trips to OH during his four years in office, and most of them were on Air Force One on the premise of official business. His efforts on the GM and Chrysler buyouts started early on and targeted MI and OH with all their UAW members. He went all over the country on "official business" and started his re-election campaign the day after he got sworn in. The power if incumbancy has immense value, especially if you're a favorite of the mainstream media.
Yep....there certainly is that. Of course there are some that will pretend it is a "fallacy".