Re: An Injustice Averted

[Dakota]

Why didn't a buck 20 work? ya mind?
the audience would like to know

Mainly because with their system it was one way and you'd have to deadhead home for free....Only once did "they"find me a load back, only because when I was droppinng of, the customer asked me if I was picking up the Ceva load..So I had to call in and ask for it....
so a buck 20 was more like 60 cents in a straight truck!!!

Also if you don't agree with a thread you don't have to post in it or even read it, that is one of our freedoms!!!

 

[Dakota]

Also remember the majority of the Ceva straight trucks were daycabs, with logging, so sleeping in the cab was not an option.
In a van it would have been different. So it was not like I could wait 4 days for a load back.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

LOL...thinking? Thought I was pretty convinced

convinced or convincing? LOL your point was noted and placed in the appropriate file....

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Also remember the majority of the Ceva straight trucks were daycabs, with logging, so sleeping in the cab was not an option.
In a van it would have been different. So it was not like I could wait 4 days for a load back.

Ya sold me....

 

[Tennesseahawk]

I've got a feeling that Phil thought he was doing just that when he started the thread in the Fedex forum. If he wanted it to be open for discussion in the "open" forum, I'm sure he would have posted it here to start with. If the threads in the carrier forums are going to be drug up and posted in the open forum, what good is it to have exclusive carrier forums?

Well, if you pee on the wall long enough, you shouldn't be surprised when it makes it to the street.

 

[Steady Eddie]

In the immediate, short term picture, it doesn't. But in the long term big picture, it costs a lot more to sit than to move. The clock ticks relentlessly on fixed expenses. Every minute you sit, those costs go up in relation to revenue. Every mile you drive, those costs go down. It affects nearly everything, including and especially your CPM. The more loaded miles you put on in a year, the lower your CPM. Every minute you sit, your CPM goes up.

When you say move, are you referring to just a move into a better place? Yeah, that is a cost. But to sit cost more to run? You have fixed cost, everyone does, some a lot more than others. I can sit and the cost is zero for a day. I get a run, which the cost is going way up compared to sitting. Sitting I have $0.00 cpm. I eat every day running or not, part of variable cost I guess. My variable costs go way up when I'm running. When sitting my fixed and variable cost are expensed on the next load, but it still does not cost me more to sit than to have a paid run. I track all my Fixed cost on 12 loads per month, anymore than 12 are profits without fixed cost.
Now, I can see where your thinking of adding in cost per mile for a paid load and adding in the sitting cost would cost you more for running not sitting. You are in a sense expensing your cost for sitting into your cost for running to bring it back to zero for the next paid run. So it cost you more to run than to sit. Back at zero, you unload and get another run hours after, you were sleeping, no cost. Your run now is back at your regular cpm and profits are back to where you want them to be. Still, it cost more to run than to sit. Unless you are sitting for weeks on end.

 

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Turtle
If people want to carry on an exclusive conversation then they need to do so in an exclusive manner, and doing it in a public forum ain't it.

I've got a feeling that Phil thought he was doing just that when he started the thread in the Fedex forum.

And his exclusive conversation still continues, unsullied by outsiders, right where he started it over in the FECC Forum.

If he wanted it to be open for discussion in the "open" forum, I'm sure he would have posted it here to start with.

I'm sure he would do just that. Phil's a smart guy. But in the case of this particular discussion, Freightdawg wanted it to be in the "open" forum, and thus started the thread here. I bear Freightdawg no ill will for wanting to discuss something in the "open" forum. Neither, apparently, do two FECC drivers who slapped their "Like" onto the original post.

If the threads in the carrier forums are going to be drug up and posted in the open forum, what good is it to have exclusive carrier forums?

I dunno. Ask Phil, since he's done it himself on more than one occasion. <snort> The carrier forums are exclusive only insofar as posting into them, they are not exclusive as to others reading and then thinking about them, or discussing in other forums what they have read and thought about. To suggest that topics brought forth in a carrier forum are somehow forbidden to be discussed elsewhere is ridiculous. Like I said, if you want to carry on an exclusive and private conversation, then you should do so in an exclusive and private manner, and an open forum that can be read any anybody ain't it.

 

[ATeam]

Sorry, I don't go by the hour. And yes, if it meant being able to stay close to home, I would take a $10/hr job. Some things mean more to me than money.

Absolutely true.

It goes the other way too. For some people money is very important.

If you want to feel sorry for me because working for a low wage is beneath me, I'll exercise my option to feel sorry for you because you are willing to accept so little.

Notice the shift you made after I responded to your "I feel sorry for you" post. You brought lifestyle into it and the importance or unimportance of money.

Instead of exchanging pity for each other, how about respect instead? I'll respect the fact that you are willing to forgo higher pay in order to stay close to the home and family you hold dear if you respect the fact that I am money motivated and goal oriented.

Yes, there is more to life than money and Diane and I enjoy those things too, but money matters to us and we live and work accordingly. We don't settle for less. We look for more.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Absolutely true.

It goes the other way too. For some people money is very important.

If you want to feel sorry for me because working for a low wage is beneath me, I'll exercise my option to feel sorry for you because you are willing to accept so little.

Notice the shift you made after I responded to your "I feel sorry for you" post. You brought lifestyle into it and the importance or unimportance of money.

Instead of exchanging pity for each other, how about respect instead? I'll respect the fact that you are willing to forgo higher pay in order to stay close to the home and family you hold dear if you respect the fact that I am money motivated and goal oriented.

Yes, there is more to life than money and Diane and I enjoy those things too, but money matters to us and we live and work accordingly. We don't settle for less. We look for more.

Absolutely Phil.....

 

[ATeam]

I like the nice trucks and have always thought WG was the place to be for a team, but I've never understood the idea that how much you spend on the truck should determine your rates.

Thank you for making that distinction. It is very, very important and I hope readers who are critical of expensive truck owners listen very carefully to what I say next. I speak not for others but only for Diane and me. Other owners of expensive trucks may hold the opposite view, but Diane and I are not in that camp.

We have never believed for a second that we are in any way entitled to or deserving of a higher rate because we drive an expensive truck. That concept is not part of our belief system. It has never entered our minds.

When we built our truck, we were fully aware that we could buy a truck at a fraction of the cost that could haul the same freight and provide the same services. Indeed, for three years before we got into our truck, we drove standard fleet owner trucks with factory sleepers.

We did not spend the money on a truck that we did to create an entitlement to higher rates. That would be insane reasoning. It does not work that way. We knew it then and know it now.

We spent the money on a truck that we did to provide the creature comforts and safety features we desired. When we considered the cost, we also considered the revenue a truck like ours could produce. We had a good idea of what that was based on our experience of three years hauling the very same freight we would haul in the new truck. Concluding that we could afford the truck, we bought it and drove on.

As things turned out, we made a very good decision. We got the truck we wanted, paid it off in short order and continue to drive it today.

As we see rates now falling and carrier policies changing, we are not looking at the world with a sense of entitlement. We are not suggesting or even beginning to believe that we should get paid more because our truck cost more. It is the same today as it was five years ago. It would be insane to expect more money because you have higher costs.

We did not believe five years ago that we should be paid more money because we have higher costs, we don't believe it today and we never will.

If you are a reader who thought otherwise, I ask you to let go of that assumption because it is not true.

 

[Turtle]

When you say move, are you referring to just a move into a better place?

No, I'm referring to loaded, paid, moving miles, in the same context that Greg made his statement, although in certain circumstances moving to a better place can cost you a lot less than sitting, as well, which also applies.

Yeah, that is a cost. But to sit cost more to run? You have fixed cost, everyone does, some a lot more than others. I can sit and the cost is zero for a day. I get a run, which the cost is going way up compared to sitting. Sitting I have $0.00 cpm. I eat every day running or not, part of variable cost I guess. My variable costs go way up when I'm running. When sitting my fixed and variable cost are expensed on the next load, but it still does not cost me more to sit than to have a paid run. I track all my Fixed cost on 12 loads per month, anymore than 12 are profits without fixed cost.
Now, I can see where your thinking of adding in cost per mile for a paid load and adding in the sitting cost would cost you more for running not sitting. You are in a sense expensing your cost for sitting into your cost for running to bring it back to zero for the next paid run. So it cost you more to run than to sit. Back at zero, you unload and get another run hours after, you were sleeping, no cost. Your run now is back at your regular cpm and profits are back to where you want them to be. Still, it cost more to run than to sit. Unless you are sitting for weeks on end.

If you look at a small part of the picture, as with a day-to-day or a load-to-load perspective, you're right, as long as you keep things within that context and perspective. If you sit for a day and don't spend any money, yes, it costs less to do that than it does to spend money on fuel moving to another location or running a load. But again, that's the small picture, not the big picture.

But Greg said, "It costs me more per mile to sit than it does to move." He didn't qualify it or constrain it to be within these 12 loads or on a day-to-day basis. It's a total Cost Per Mile, and the more you sit, the more the Cost Per Mile goes up. No way around that. It's not a zero-sum game where you unload and get another run hours after, you were sleeping, no cost. Three years ago versus two years ago my fixed and other non-operating expenses were nearly identical. The fixed expenses were identical. The big difference between those two years was my total miles driven. The year where I drove significantly fewer miles, my Cost Per Mile at the end of the year was significantly higher than previous years. I sat more, which cost me more than if I had been moving, despite that not being the case on a day-to-day or load-to-load basis. It's the overall final CPM that matters, because that's where your money is going, even if you don't outlay cash on this particular day or that day while sitting.

 

[ATeam]

Why do you consider it an injustice? If you were offered the same load at say $2.40/mile and you found out after that you had to use the data logger, would you still be upset that it was given away free or would the extra money make it OK? Or is it an issue because you have to have this equipment and get billed for it but FedEx feels they can just give away your money?

The latter is the case. It is an injustice because we are billed for the equipment while our carrier gives the service away that they could not give away if we did not have the equipment in our truck. We pay the cost. They keep the profit. That is unjust.

 

[ATeam]

Because he's being stuck-up and obstinate when a depression stares him in the face. I'd love to see the tantrum if he finds out flipping burgers is his only choice.

1. The Great Recession is over. It has been for several months. The economy is in modest recovery with the trucking industry being more so. The recession stared us in the face and it blinked first. We got through it OK, still in business, still solvent.

2. I once worked at McDonald's flipping burgers. It is not beneath me to do so again but rest assured that I would consider all other options before doing so. I would flip burgers long before I would drive a truck only to break even. If I could put more money in the bank as a burger flipper than a truck driver, I'd be at that grill in an instant.

However, there is no way flipping burgers would be my only option. Diane and I are resourceful people. There are many paths we could pursue.

 

[LDB]

If you have truck payment, truck insurance, QC etc. Of $1800 per month it cost you $60 per day every day of the year (rounded a few pennies for simplicity). If you turn down a job on day 1, using the 1000 mile load as an example, you'd have to get the same offer on day two for 6cpm more just to make up what you lost sitting for a day. Every day adds another 6cpm without making any more money. It's all a gamble but yes, it does cost to sit.

 

[Steady Eddie]

Folks- Money is the Devils Turd

 

[ATeam]

It would seem that you value your time and equipment too much... period, without qualification.

You may very well be correct. But I am not ready to lower our price just yet.

That's known as cherry picking. Everybody out here knows that you have to figure things, including profits, on a longer time scale, like monthly or quarterly.

As do I.

"Cherry picking" is a broad and vague term that varies greatly with the people using it. We have never considered ourselves cherry pickers because we don't sit and wait for the jack pot loads. We'll do short runs. We'll do inside delivery runs. We'll do runs to remote areas (until recently with FDCC). But when it comes to pricing, we resist running at low rates, no matter how long or short the run may be.

If you're going to cherry pick a load, then you also have to cherry pick your costs per mile for that run and that run alone, versus your costs per hour to sit and do nothing. It's almost a dead lock certainty that your overall cost per mile for that run would have been lower, for that run, and you lost more money by sitting than you would have lost by taking the run.

Not in our case. The opportunity costs are different for us because we have other ways to generate revenue in the truck while sitting. If I am sitting and not making money as an expediter, there are other things I can do to improve the cash flow and increase our net worth.

Just because you've played Shakespeare In The Park for big bucks doesn't mean you should get, or deserve, the same big bucks for Dinner Theater in De Moines. The Grey Poupon line, while hilarious, was spot on, especially for someone with a paid-for truck.

I do not believe that we should get or that we deserve higher pay because we once made it before or because we are in an expensive truck. See my comments about that in a post above.

You may like to think that you would do it that way, but it's still cherry picking. You can get away with that for a while because of your equipment, but eventually your carrier will tire of it and you'll be offered primo loads only when they have to, and more and more of those are going on company owned trailers. There ya go.

In the near future, they will be offering us no loads at all because Diane and I are moving on to another opportunity (details to follow when the move is complete).

The same smart people will also tell you that clearing $400 profit for 21 hours yields more profit than does clearing zero dollars for the same 21 hours, especially since at the end of those 21 hours you'll be in a good express center in both cases.

Again, the opportunity costs are different. If you factor those out, you would be right. But, circumstances being what they are, you must factor them in.

 

[Steady Eddie]

If you have truck payment, truck insurance, QC etc. Of $1800 per month it cost you $60 per day every day of the year (rounded a few pennies for simplicity). If you turn down a job on day 1, using the 1000 mile load as an example, you'd have to get the same offer on day two for 6cpm more just to make up what you lost sitting for a day. Every day adds another 6cpm without making any more money. It's all a gamble but yes, it does cost to sit.

YOU got it, no one else did. It doesn't cost more to sit than to run. 6 cpm compare to....$$$.$$ cpm is not more to sit. It does cost some to sit. But it doesn't cost "more" to sit than to run.

 

[Turtle]

Folks- Money is the Devils Turd

Problem is, despite the many engraved invitations to do so, he still refuses to come take a dump in the back of my van.

 

[ATeam]

I agree with layout that it is up to each contractor to run his business as he sees fit.
What is an acceptable rate for me is not acceptable for all.
That's the great thing about an open forum where everyone can express there opinion.

An even better thing about an open forum, especially a good one like this one, is that people can read the wide variety of views others share and benefit from what they deem good.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

So many views and opinions to chose from...take what you need and leave the rest....no harm, no foul....