Pets and Customers

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
If the dog is trainable, train it to stay in a crate or carrier silently. I have seen one van driver who put the crate below the bed and covered it up with the blanket. Never had an issue.

Food processing plant, Food package suppliers and Pharma companies have strict rules on animals, get caught and the carrier can be banned.

If I get E-track installed, I'm thinking of getting some light plywood cut nearly the outline of the van interior, and propping it up between 2 load bars to make a portable bulkhead. Maybe put wheels on the bottom to slide it backwards or forward as needed, or just lay it down flat if I need the whole interior for freight. This may satisfy the bulkhead requirement some places have.

Anyway, much of the problem seems to stem from the fact that companies don't specify they have a no dogs policy, or maybe the broker or carrier isn't passing it on.

Somebody told me there's a collar, similar to a shock collar, but it has nozzles and a small water tube and when the dog barks, it gets sprayed in the face. Maybe that will break her barking.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Nah you don't need to resort to the spray collars, good patients training is all you need. It isn't like you live in a house with 4 people who do their own thing with the dog but rather you are alone with it 24/7 which helps a lot.

You don't have etrack?
 

Streakn1

Veteran Expediter
Ok, most of these replies, while good, are missing a piece of information I'm really looking for, except for one, which was "shoot the dog," which falls short in a really, special way.

But now I'm in a CV, no co-driver, and I know the day is coming when I'm at loggerheads with the customer and no solution in sight. I'm one of those guys that treats the dog like a furry daughter that doesn't speak clearly, so there's absolutely, positively no way I'm tying her up to the fence or putting her in a cage outside the gate while I drive away. I know the day's coming when there's not going to be an easy solution; I just don't know what to do when that day comes.

Maybe tell them their forklift will have to come to the front gate for their freight?

Simply explain to the moron at the gate that you WILL NOT tie your dog to the fence and leave it, nor will you put the dog in a crate/cage and leave it outside. Tell him/her that is cruelty to animals which is against the law. Tell him/her that your dog is a family member and that you are sure that they would not treat their member in such a way.

If all else fails thank them and drive away. No customer is worth that nor is a carrier that allows pets in the truck, yet expects the driver to tie it to a fence and leave it! Just my feelings.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
When I got Kenzy, [a comical mixture of Boston terrier & Pug], I bought a portable crate, in case it were ever needed - inside, as I'd never leave her outside in it, but it's never been out of the box. Probably because my carrier knows I have a dog.
The dog is worth whatever loads I may miss, IMO. She's almost as cool as Jeanie's cat [sshh - he doesn't know he's a cat, ok?;)] Dingle.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Anyway, much of the problem seems to stem from the fact that companies don't specify they have a no dogs policy, or maybe the broker or carrier isn't passing it on.
Nearly every business in this country who carries liability insurance has a no pet policy. Guaranteed. Assume they all do unless they specifically state they allow pets. Some shippers and consignees will enforce it strictly, but the ones who don't strictly enforce it will allow pets on the property so long as they remain inside the cab or sleeper of the truck since it's not likely to be an issue. With a van, it's different. Vans with bulkheads may or may not allow them to relax the rule enforcement. If there's any question on the part of a security guard, it's a lot easier to save their job by saying no, since that's the rule that they're supposed to enforce.

I know a lot of people with pets in vans and they all report having very few problems. But a barking dog in the presence of strangers is a major red flag to those strangers and indicates a potentially aggressive dog. They don't want any part of it.

Also, despite some people's "feelings" on the matter, temporarily placing a dog in a crate/carrier or tying it to a fence is not cruelty to animals and thus is against the law unless the animal is being inflicted with suffering or harm. Neither is putting a horse in a horse trailer or tying it to a hitching post.
 

Streakn1

Veteran Expediter
Turtle; Also said:
You may be correct Turtle and I may be wrong. I will ask my wife what the laws are pertaining to what constitutes animal cruelty. It was my understanding that if an animal is tied to a fence (or crated) and abandoned without food, water, and shelter from the eliments for any length of time, law enforcement can perceive that as cruelty to an animal and fine you, plus take the animal into protective custody. Who wants to take that chance. Especially not knowing the local laws.

I do know that in her law enforcement years she had every right to bust out the window of a vehicle that an animal was left unatended in if the owner was not around and it was felt the animal may be endandered by the heat, etc.

How many times have we (all) gone into a shipper/receiver thinking we will only be a short period of time before exiting the property, only to be held up for hours waiting to load/unload. What is the pet supposed to do in the meantime tied to a fence in 115 degree heat in the middle of say Arizon with no shade?
 
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miguy1957

Expert Expediter
Come on people, Its your choice to have a cat or dog in your truck. If they are not allowed at some plants, You just have to live with it. You made the decision that having a pet in the truck was more important that the loads that that you wont get because you have one with you. Kind of like complaining about not getting a load because you dont have haz mat on your license and the load gos to someone that does. Just leave the pets at home and open yourself up for those places that dont allow pets. If you had another business odds are you couldnt have your pet there either. IMO pets should be at home not out in Public.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Well, Streakn, like I said, it is not against the law nor cruelty to animals unless the animal is being inflicted with suffering or harm. The idea of doing it might seem cruel because you wouldn't want to be tied to a fence or because the dog doesn't like it, but not liking something is not the same as suffering or being harmed. Hurt feelings of the dog or the owner doesn't qualify as harm or suffering.

Obviously, abandoning the animal without food or water while being tied to a fence would be inflicting harm and suffering. But a few hours tied to a fence under the watchful eye of a security guard would not be abandoning it, nor would it inflict harm or suffering.

Leaving an animal tied to a fence in 115 degree Arizona heat with no shade would be inflicting harm and suffering if no water was left for it, depending on how long it was there. A few minutes or even a few hours might not result in harm or suffering. Failing to provide shelter from the elements for short periods of time (like hours) is not cruelty to animals, unless doing to results in harm or suffering. Animals should never be tethered even for a matter of minutes during natural disasters or severe weather such as floods, fires, tornadoes, hurricanes, or blizzards, but under normal circumstances it's fine for short periods.

The scenario of having to wait an extended time to get loaded or unloaded in 115 Arizona heat and at the same time also having to tie up or crate your animal is what known as being "an exception to the norm", an extreme or extraordinary situation, and is not likely to be encountered very often by most expediters. Most expediters never go to Arizona, and while there are certainly shippers and consignees in Arizona who do not allow pets, and there are certainly times when the heat in Arizona is 115° or higher, the chances of an expediter encountering simultaneously all three of the conditions of Arizona, 115° heat and no pets are extraordinarily remote. Using an abnormal situation and then trying to broadly apply the same thing to a normality is nothing more than reductio ad absurdum (or probably more accurately reductio ad incommodum) where a logical proposition is taken to the extreme and then used to support or discredit non-extreme situations. There are other places with extreme heat, like Laredo, where the same argument can be made, but just like in Arizona, there are few places in Laredo who would restrict pets in such situations.

Look, I'm not saying that people should be expected to tie or crate their animals and leave them someplace else while they load or unload. If you don't want to do it, don't. But let's not get carried away and say that it's against the law, because it's not. And even if i were it wouldn't matter, since they can let you on their property or not, it's up to them. When you are at a shipper or a consignee you are a guest on their property and should follow their rules. If their rules say 'no pets (or no cell phones or cameras or laptops) and you don't want to tie up or crate your dog (or surrender your camera or cell phone or laptop) in order to get on their property, then don't. But don't expect to get on their property or expect them to change their policies simply because you tell them they should.
 

x06col

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Army
I can't imagine someone jeopardizing their contract with a carrier by leaving a DELIVERY loaded because of a pet. It is NOT computing!! Someone must feel their services are really super.

Me tink, the real abuse might come when the pet is thrown out the window at 60mph, fer scratch'in some tousand dollah seats.
 

ebsprintin

Veteran Expediter
like complaining about not getting a load because you dont have haz mat on your license and the load gos to someone that does.

Miguy you just don't get it. How could you possibly compare family members to hazardous materials? (hehe--as he stirs the pot.)

Every time this topic comes up, I picture standing at the shipper with an Express-1 driver with their dog milling around the vans. I had already kicked the dog out of my van. Shipper guy arrives, dog alerts. Dog runs up the ramp, into the plant and charges the shipper guy, yapping at his feet. So here is this shipper guy visibly ****ed, trying to help load us while trying to not upset someone's family member.

eb
 

ebsprintin

Veteran Expediter
That's nifty. I didn't realize I could say, "****, **** and ****ed" and the forum would automatically edit my comments. I had always thought that everyone here was surprisingly considerate and proper in editing their own comments.

eb
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
That's nifty. I didn't realize I could say, "****, **** and ****ed" and the forum would automatically edit my comments. I had always thought that everyone here was surprisingly considerate and proper in editing their own comments.

eb

try again...the censor gotcha..*LOL* It seems selective..:p
 

blizzard2014

Veteran Expediter
Driver
The road life ain't no life for an animal. I is very hard on pets being on the road in the truck. I think we are all a little bit selfish when it comes to wanting to have our pets with us. I have an older cat that I miss dearly, but it would be too much of a traumatic experience to force her to come out on the road with me. It would be pure selfishness.

Now I know some of you would disagree with me, but this is just my personal belief.I would never cage an animal; animals are supposed to be free to roam around and be animals. I would never even force a goldfish to live inside a small fish tank. I don't believe in breaking the spirit of an animal.

Like one of the posters who said their dogs are placed in a carrier box while they are driving down the road. While this is good for the safety of the animal, it is not good for the spirit of the dogs. Dogs need to have a big yard where they can run around in and be free. This is not a paeronal attack on those who have pets with them on the road; just how I truly feel about animals.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I have often pondered the idea of a dog but I've decided like you Blizzard...I don't like them little type shiztfaces..they are dog food...I like the medium to large type..something you can wrestle with and don't need sox to walk on the cold ground and a blanket no less....A CV is no place for a dog...
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
A CV is no place for a dog...
It's not much of a place for a person, either. :D

Oddly enough, many dogs really like it out here in cargo vans and trucks. They are well adjusted, even tempered and friendly, not stressed out at all. In my van, the way it's laid out, there's just no way to create a space that the dog could call their own, so I don't think my dog could ever be comfortable in here, no matter how much he likes to ride in the car. Plus, he's a black lab and there's barely enough room for me in here.
 
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asjssl

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
My fury co-driver loves it out here...he is all of 7 pds...he has his own bed for him...only lost one load because i had him...OWW WELL...theres more loads out there...makes all these miles and time alot more enjoyable....couldnt imagine being out here w/ out him.. cant belive some people could be so cold hearted about animals....he dosent care where or what were doing as long as he is w/ me...... :)
 
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OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
My fury co-driver loves it out here...he is all of 7 pds...he has his own bed for him...only lost one load because i had him...OWW WELL...theres more loads out there...makes all these miles and time alot more enjoyable....couldnt imagine being out here w/ out him.. cant belive some people could be so cold hearted about animals....he dosent care where or what were doing as long as he is w/ me...... :)

Cold hearted? where...I just see people not wanting dogs in a CV/truck....I guess them 7 pounders are alright in a truck but a shepperd or a lab?
 

Streakn1

Veteran Expediter
Well, Streakn, like I said, it is not against the law nor cruelty to animals unless the animal is being inflicted with suffering or harm. The idea of doing it might seem cruel because you wouldn't want to be tied to a fence or because the dog doesn't like it, but not liking something is not the same as suffering or being harmed. Hurt feelings of the dog or the owner doesn't qualify as harm or suffering.

Obviously, abandoning the animal without food or water while being tied to a fence would be inflicting harm and suffering. But a few hours tied to a fence under the watchful eye of a security guard would not be abandoning it, nor would it inflict harm or suffering.

Leaving an animal tied to a fence in 115 degree Arizona heat with no shade would be inflicting harm and suffering if no water was left for it, depending on how long it was there. A few minutes or even a few hours might not result in harm or suffering. Failing to provide shelter from the elements for short periods of time (like hours) is not cruelty to animals, unless doing to results in harm or suffering. Animals should never be tethered even for a matter of minutes during natural disasters or severe weather such as floods, fires, tornadoes, hurricanes, or blizzards, but under normal circumstances it's fine for short periods.

The scenario of having to wait an extended time to get loaded or unloaded in 115 Arizona heat and at the same time also having to tie up or crate your animal is what known as being "an exception to the norm", an extreme or extraordinary situation, and is not likely to be encountered very often by most expediters. Most expediters never go to Arizona, and while there are certainly shippers and consignees in Arizona who do not allow pets, and there are certainly times when the heat in Arizona is 115° or higher, the chances of an expediter encountering simultaneously all three of the conditions of Arizona, 115° heat and no pets are extraordinarily remote. Using an abnormal situation and then trying to broadly apply the same thing to a normality is nothing more than reductio ad absurdum (or probably more accurately reductio ad incommodum) where a logical proposition is taken to the extreme and then used to support or discredit non-extreme situations. There are other places with extreme heat, like Laredo, where the same argument can be made, but just like in Arizona, there are few places in Laredo who would restrict pets in such situations.

Look, I'm not saying that people should be expected to tie or crate their animals and leave them someplace else while they load or unload. If you don't want to do it, don't. But let's not get carried away and say that it's against the law, because it's not. And even if i were it wouldn't matter, since they can let you on their property or not, it's up to them. When you are at a shipper or a consignee you are a guest on their property and should follow their rules. If their rules say 'no pets (or no cell phones or cameras or laptops) and you don't want to tie up or crate your dog (or surrender your camera or cell phone or laptop) in order to get on their property, then don't. But don't expect to get on their property or expect them to change their policies simply because you tell them they should.

If you go online and randomly research the animal cruelty laws in cities or counties you P/D freight in, you will find many times they vary from state to state, county to county, and city to city. You may be suprised at what innocent action on your part regarding how you handle your pet, is in fact unlawful. What may seem ok for a few hours in your mind can be not ok in theirs. They are the one that can right to citation and/or impound your pet. So my suggestion would be to educate one's self to the local laws before leaving the pet chained or crated outside the customer's property.

If anyone believes that the minimum wage worker at the customer's gate gives a rats AAA... about the safety and welfare of your pet, think again! Most likely they will do nothing to safeguard you pet if a situation arises.

Typical summer day: Phoenix,AZ 115 degrees, Pavement temp =140+/-. Miami,FL or Dallas/Fort Worth,TX: 98-105 degrees. Pavement temp 130 degrees. And so on and so forth. Point is when there is no grassy shaded area to leave you pet and the only option is pavement, set your furry bare bottom on that hot pavement for a few hours and be sure and take your shoes and socks off and stand there for awhile. Ask the guard to drop his/her drawers and go sit on that hot pavement with the dog while you go inside and P/D. LOL

Fortunate for us this is not a real big issue with our customers. Yes, much of our expedite freight is from Arizon. I feel for any solo driver the has to deal with this issue.
 
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OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Personally I don't feel for any solo driver that has to deal with this...

because that driver put themselves into the situation...They chose to bring the pet. The pet had no say in the matter.

The drivers have nothing to complain about..only they are to blame.
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
Nearly every business in this country who carries liability insurance has a no pet policy. Guaranteed.

Other than nuke plants, I've run into a problem maybe 3 times, and then maybe 4 or 5 nuke plants where my co-driver or I stood outside with the hounds. So it seems the ones with no pet policies are the odd ducks. Which, back to my first assertion, if that's the case, the onus is on them to specify that when bringing in outside vendors or delivery people. If that's your policy, SAY SO, and I won't accept the load. If you don't say so, I hope your forklift can get to the gate.
 
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