Panetta: Israel May Strike Iran This Spring

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The Washington Post first reported that Panetta was concerned about the increased likelihood Israel would launch an attack over the next few months. CNN said it confirmed the report, citing a senior Obama administration official, who declined to be identified.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/03/us-nuclear-iran-usa-israel-idUSTRE81202Z20120203

Leon Panetta must now be Obama's designated "Leaker". People are now scratching their heads wondering why he would mention something like this - either on or off the record - in the presence of the press. Obviously it's to send a message to the Israelis, reinforcing the Obama policy that regards these long-time U.S. allies as 2nd class world citizens. Now the international pressure on Israel can build up against any possible Israeli preemptive action while Iran continues their nuclear development undeterred. Meanwhile Barack Hussein Obama publicly pledges his hollow loyalty to our Jewish friends while leading from behind. Obviously he must realize that any kind of blowup in the Middle East this year will magnify his foreign policy weaknesses and guarantee his defeat. No doubt Netanyahu is well aware of this also, but at this juncture U.S. political theater is the least of his worries.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
The reason for this seems to be to warn Iran not Israel.

Given that there is a need to set up the excuse factor for our involvement, we are looking at a pretty clear use of propaganda.
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
It will be a great day for peace when there is no oil left for the Middle East to sell. Take away oil and these little fiefdoms have nothing. As it is now, we buy their oil, they grow rich and want to destroy Israel and as much of Western civilization as possible.

It appears Israel will strike Iran soon. Look for oil prices to soar. An unstable world harms all nations. Maybe it's time to deal these Middle East blackmailers once and for all. Once they achieve nuclear weapon capability, the risk of a nuclear exchange is simply untenable. If the Western Powers go in, let's hope a crushing blow is dealt in such a way as to permanently discourage any further nuclear ambitions among the oil fiefdoms.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Leon Panetta must now be Obama's designated "Leaker". People are now scratching their heads wondering why he would mention something like this - either on or off the record - in the presence of the press.
Some of us aren't .....

Obviously it's to send a message to the Israelis, reinforcing the Obama policy that regards these long-time U.S. allies as 2nd class world citizens.
Long-time allies ?

Second-class world citizens ?

ROTFLMAO ......

Now the international pressure on Israel can build up against any possible Israeli preemptive action while Iran continues their nuclear development undeterred.
As a signatory to the Non-Proliferation Treaty, Iran has a right to develop nuclear power for peaceful purposes - just because we no longer have one of our own personally hand-picked sadistic butchering thugs installed as their dictator doesn't mean we get a "do-over" on their nuclear program .... which we originally funded and started by the way.

Meanwhile Barack Hussein Obama publicly pledges his hollow loyalty to our Jewish friends while leading from behind.
You mean those "friends" that have repeatedly spied on and conducted espionage activities against us ?

The ones who are constantly meddling in our internal political affairs ?

Which have conducted all manner of activities which show them to be an enemy, rather than a "friend" ?

The same ones who, back in 1967, knowingly and intentionally attacked the USS Liberty ...... deliberately butchering US sailors ?:

'The USS Liberty': America's Most Shameful Secret
By Eric Margolis
May 2, 2001


NEW YORK – On the fourth day of the 1967 Arab Israeli War, the intelligence ship 'USS Liberty' was steaming slowly in international waters, 14 miles off the Sinai Peninsula. Israeli armored forces were racing deep into Sinai in hot pursuit of the retreating Egyptian army.

'Liberty,' a World War II freighter, had been converted into an intelligence vessel by the top-secret US National Security Agency, and packed with the latest signals and electronic interception equipment. The ship bristled with antennas and electronic 'ears' including TRSSCOMM, a system that delivered real-time intercepts to Washington by bouncing a stream of microwaves off the moon.

'Liberty' had been rushed to Sinai to monitor communications of the belligerents in the Third Arab Israeli War: Israel and her foes, Egypt, Syria, and Jordan.

At 0800 hrs, 8 June, 1967, eight Israeli recon flights flew over 'Liberty,' which was flying a large American flag. At 1400 hrs, waves of low-flying Israeli Mystere and Mirage-III fighter-bombers repeatedly attacked the American vessel with rockets, napalm, and cannon. The air attacks lasted 20 minutes, concentrating on the ship's electronic antennas and dishes. The 'Liberty' was left afire, listing sharply. Eight of her crew lay dead, a hundred seriously wounded, including the captain, Commander William McGonagle.

At 1424 hrs, three Israeli torpedo boats attacked, raking the burning 'Liberty' with 20mm and 40mm shells. At 1431hrs an Israeli torpedo hit the 'Liberty' midship, precisely where the signals intelligence systems were located. Twenty-five more Americans died.

Israeli gunboats circled the wounded 'Liberty,' firing at crewmen trying to fight the fires. At 1515, the crew were ordered to abandon ship. The Israeli warships closed and poured machine gun fire into the crowded life rafts, sinking two. As American sailors were being massacred in cold blood, a rescue mission by US Sixth Fleet carrier aircraft was mysteriously aborted on orders from the White House.

An hour after the attack, Israeli warships and planes returned. Commander McGonagle gave the order. 'prepare to repel borders.' But the Israelis, probably fearful of intervention by the US Sixth Fleet, departed. 'Liberty' was left shattered but still defiant, her flag flying.
The Israeli attacks killed 34 US seamen and wounded 171 out of a crew of 297, the worst loss of American naval personnel from hostile action since World War II.

Less than an hour after the attack, Israel told Washington its forces had committed a 'tragic error.' Later, Israel claimed it had mistaken 'Liberty' for an ancient Egyptian horse transport. US Secretary of State, Dean Rusk, and Joint Chiefs of Staff head, Admiral Thomas Moorer, insisted the Israeli attack was deliberate and designed to sink 'Liberty.' So did three CIA reports; one asserted Israel's Defense Minister, Gen. Moshe Dayan, had personally ordered the attack.

In contrast to American outrage over North Korea's assault on the intelligence ship 'Pueblo,' Iraq's mistaken missile strike on the USS 'Stark,' last fall's bombing of the USS 'Cole' in Aden, and the recent US-China air incident, the savaging of 'Liberty' was quickly hushed up by President Lyndon Johnson and Defense Secretary Robert McNamara.

The White House and Congress immediately accepted Israel's explanation and let the matter drop. Israel later paid a token reparation of US $6 million. There were reports two Israeli pilots who had refused to attack 'Liberty' were jailed for 18 years.

Surviving 'Liberty' crew members would not be silenced. They kept demanding an open inquiry and tried to tell their story of deliberate attack to the media. Israel's government worked behind the scenes to thwart these efforts, going so far as having American pro-Israel groups accuse 'Liberty's' survivors of being 'anti-Semites' and 'Israel-haters.' Major TV networks cancelled interviews with the crew. A book about the 'Liberty' by crewman James Ennes' was dropped from distribution. The Israel lobby branded him 'an Arab propagandist.'

The attack on 'Liberty' was fading into obscurity until last week, when intelligence expert James Bamford came out with Body of Secrets, his latest book about the National Security Agency. In a stunning revelation, Bamford writes that unknown to Israel, a US Navy EC-121 intelligence aircraft was flying high overhead the 'Liberty,' electronically recorded the attack. The US aircraft crew provides evidence that the Israeli pilots knew full well that they were attacking a US Navy ship flying the American flag.

Why did Israel try to sink a naval vessel of its benefactor and ally? Most likely because 'Liberty's' intercepts flatly contradicted Israel's claim, made at the war's beginning on 5 June, that Egypt had attacked Israel, and that Israel's massive air assault on three Arab nations was in retaliation. In fact, Israel began the war by a devastating, Pearl-Harbor style surprise attack that caught the Arabs in bed and destroyed their entire air forces.

Israel was also preparing to attack Syria to seize its strategic Golan Heights. Washington warned Israel not to invade Syria, which had remained inactive while Israel fought Egypt. Bamford says Israel's offensive against Syria was abruptly postponed when 'Liberty' appeared off Sinai, then launched once it was knocked out of action. Israel's claim that Syria had attacked it could have been disproved by 'Liberty.'

Most significant, 'Liberty's' intercepts may have shown that Israel seized upon sharply rising Arab-Israeli tensions in May-June 1967 to launch a long-planned war to invade and annex the West Bank, Jerusalem, Golan and Sinai.

Far more shocking was Washington's response. Writes Bamford: 'Despite the overwhelming evidence that Israel attacked the ship and killed American servicemen deliberately, the Johnson Administration and Congress covered up the entire incident.' Why?

Domestic politics. Johnson, a man never noted for high moral values, preferred to cover up the attack rather than anger a key constituency and major financial backer of the Democratic Party. Congress was even
less eager to touch this 'third rail' issue.

Commander McGonagle was quietly awarded the Medal of Honor for his and his men's heroism – not in the White House, as is usual, but in an obscure ceremony at the Washington Navy Yard. Crew member's graves were inscribed, 'died in the Eastern Mediterranean..' as if they had be killed by disease, rather than hostile action.

A member of President Johnson's staff believed there was a more complex reason for the cover-up: Johnson offered Jewish liberals unconditional backing of Israel, and a cover-up of the 'Liberty' attack, in exchange for the liberal toning down their strident criticism of his policies in the then raging Vietnam War.

Israel, which claims it fought a war of self defense in 1967 and had no prior territorial ambitions, will be much displeased by Bamford's revelations. Those who believe Israel illegally occupies the West Bank and Golan will be emboldened.

Much more important, the US government's long, disgraceful cover-up of the premeditated attack on 'Liberty' has now burst into the open and demands full-scale investigation. After 34 years, the voices of 'Liberty's' dead and wounded seamen must finally be heard.


..... those "friends" ?

Obviously he must realize that any kind of blowup in the Middle East this year will magnify his foreign policy weaknesses and guarantee his defeat.
I think you vastly over-estimate the psycho-lunatic "Amen Corner" and Pro-Life Murderers for Jebus™ crowd .....

Quite frankly, while it's no secret that they are very vocal and quite loud in their hysteria, they are just a relatively small minority of the overall populace .... and are largely dependent on the "inside the Beltway" Neoconmunists™ mouthpieces on keeping the ignorant sheep fully whipped up in the frothy fear of terror about the prospects of Mooslims under the bed .....
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
No doubt Netanyahu is well aware of this also, but at this juncture U.S. political theater is the least of his worries.
Oh, I think that U.S. political theater is possibly one of his greatest worries .... can you imagine what Bibi and Ehud must be thinking about the prospect of 4 more years .....

BTW, Bibi and Ehud are well aware of it - since no less than the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs was dispatched recently to let them know in no uncertain terms that if their trigger finger gets overly itchy, they are on their own (Say Halleujah !):

Dempsey Told Israelis US Won’t Join Their War on Iran
by Gareth Porter, February 02, 2012

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Martin Dempsey told Israeli leaders Jan. 20 that the United States would not participate in a war against Iran begun by Israel without prior agreement from Washington, according to accounts from well-placed senior military officers.

Dempsey’s warning, conveyed to both Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak, represents the strongest move yet by President Barack Obama to deter an Israeli attack and ensure that the United States is not caught up in a regional conflagration with Iran.

But the Israeli government remains defiant about maintaining its freedom of action to make war on Iran, and it is counting on the influence of right-wing extremist views in U.S. politics to bring pressure to bear on Obama to fall into line with a possible Israeli attack during the election campaign this fall.

Obama still appears reluctant to break publicly and explicitly with Israel over its threat of military aggression against Iran, even in the absence of evidence Iran has decided to build a nuclear weapon.

Dempsey’s trip was highly unusual, in that there was neither a press conference by the chairman nor any public statement by either side about the substance of his meetings with Israeli leaders. Even more remarkable, no leak about what he said to the Israelis has appeared in either U.S. or Israeli news media, indicating that both sides have regarded what Dempsey said as extremely sensitive.

The substance of Dempsey’s warning to the Israelis has become known, however, to active and retired senior flag officers with connections to the JCS, according to a military source who got it from those officers.

A spokesman for the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Commander Patrick McNally, offered no comment Wednesday when IPS asked him about the above account of Dempsey’s warning to the Israelis.

The message carried by Dempsey was the first explicit statement to the Netanyahu government that the United States would not defend Israel if it attacked Iran unilaterally. But Defense Secretary Leon Panetta had given a clear hint in an interview on Face the Nation Jan. 8 that the Obama administration would not help defend Israel in a war against Iran that Israel had initiated.

Asked how the United States would react if Israel were to launch a unilateral attack on Iran, Panetta first emphasized the need for a coordinated policy toward Iran with Israel. But when host Bob Schieffer repeated the question, Panetta said, “If the Israelis made that decision, we would have to be prepared to protect our forces in that situation. And that’s what we’d be concerned about.”

Defense Minister Barak had sought to dampen media speculation before Dempsey’s arrival that the chairman was coming to put pressure on Israel over its threat to attack Iran, but then proceeded to reiterate the Netanyahu-Barak position that they cannot give up their responsibility for the security of Israel “for anyone, including our American friends.”

There has been no evidence since the Dempsey visit of any change in the Netanyahu government’s insistence on maintaining its freedom of action to attack Iran.

Dempsey’s meetings with Netanyahu and Barak also failed to resolve the issue of the joint U.S.-Israeli military exercise geared to a missile attack, “Austere Challenge ’12,” which had been scheduled for April 2012 but had been postponed abruptly a few days before his arrival in Israel.

More than two weeks after Dempsey’s meeting with Barak, the spokesman for the Pentagon, John Kirby, told IPS, “All I can say is that the exercise will be held later this year.” That indicated that there has been no major change in the status of U.S.-Israeli discussions of the issue since the postponement of the exercise was leaked Jan. 15.

The postponement has been the subject of conflicting and unconvincing explanations from the Israeli side, suggesting disarray in the Netanyahu government over how to handle the issue.

To add to the confusion, Israeli and U.S. statements left it unclear whether the decision had been unilateral or joint as well as the reasons for the decision.

Panetta asserted in a news conference Jan. 18 that Barak himself had asked him to postpone the exercise.

It now clear that both sides had an interest in postponing the exercise and very possibly letting it expire by failing to reach a decision on it.

The Israelis appear to have two distinct reasons for putting the exercise off, which reflect differences between the interests of Netanyahu and his defense minister.

Netanyahu’s primary interest in relation to the exercise was evidently to give the Republican candidate ammunition to fire at Obama during the fall campaign by insinuating that the postponement was decided at the behest of Obama to reduce tensions with Iran.

Thus Mark Regev, Netanyahu’s spokesman, explained it as a “joint” decision with the United States, adding, “The thinking was it was not the right timing now to conduct such an exercise.”

Barak, however, had an entirely different concern, which was related to the Israeli Defense Forces’ readiness to carry out an operation that would involve both attacking Iran’s nuclear facilities and minimizing the Iranian retaliatory response.

A former U.S. intelligence analyst who followed the Israeli military closely told IPS he strongly suspects that the IDF has pressed Barak to insist that the Israeli force be at the peak of readiness if and when they are asked to attack Iran.

The analyst, who insisted on anonymity because of his continuing contacts with U.S. military and intelligence personnel, said the 2006 Lebanon War debacle continues to haunt the thinking of IDF leaders. In that war, it became clear that the IDF had not been ready to handle Hezbollah rocket attacks adequately, and the prestige of the Israeli military suffered a serious blow.

The insistence of IDF leaders that they never go to war before being fully prepared is a primary consideration for Barak, according to the analyst. “Austere Challenge ’12″ would inevitably involve a major consumption of military resources, he observes, which would reduce Israeli readiness for war in the short run.

The concern about a major military exercise actually reducing the IDF’s readiness for war against Iran would explain why senior Israeli military officials were reported to have suggested that the reasons for the postponement were mostly “technical and logistical.”

The Israeli military concern about expending scarce resources on the exercise would apply, of course, regardless of whether the exercise was planned for April or late 2012. That fact would help explain why the exercise has not been rescheduled, despite statements from the U.S. side that it will be.

The U.S. military, however, has its own reasons for being unenthusiastic about the exercise. IPS has learned from a knowledgeable source that, well before the Obama administration began distancing itself from Israel’s Iran policy, U.S. Central Command chief James N. Mattis had expressed concern about the implications of an exercise so obviously based on a scenario involving Iranian retaliation for an Israeli attack.

U.S. officials have been quoted as suspecting that the Israeli request for a postponement of the exercise indicated that Israel wanted to leave its options open for conducting a strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities in the spring. But a postponement to the fall would not change that problem.
For that reason, the former U.S. intelligence analyst told IPS he doubts that “Austere Challenge ’12″ will ever be carried out.

But the White House has an obvious political interest in using the military exercise to demonstrate that the Obama administration has increased military cooperation with Israel to an unprecedented level.

The Defense Department wants the exercise to be held in October, according to the military source in touch with senior flag officers connected to the Joint Chiefs.
(Inter Press Service)

The backlash against Israel here in the U.S. has building for a long, long time ..... but better late than never.

Expect this to continue, as the true nature and activities of the state of Israel are exposed via the internet and non-mainstream media, that is outside the ability of the MSM and AIPAC to control.

Sadly, the Israelis are well on their way to becoming, for others, the very thing that they sought to prevent against themselves.

One can only hope that more sane heads prevail in the long run.
 
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layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Let lsrael strike, none of our business. Why be concerned about the attack on the Liberty? Old news and they were just a bunch of "spooks". I though "spooks" were fair game.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
As a signatory to the Non-Proliferation Treaty, Iran has a right to develop nuclear power for peaceful purposes - just because we no longer have one of our own personally hand-picked sadistic butchering thugs installed as their dictator doesn't mean we get a "do-over" on their nuclear program .... which we originally funded and started by the way.

I think one reason NOT to deal with this issue is because I think we and the UN for that matter can not attack Iran for their developement of Nuke power unless we want to nullify the entire treaty.

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Martin Dempsey told Israeli leaders Jan. 20 that the United States would not participate in a war against Iran begun by Israel without prior agreement from Washington, according to accounts from well-placed senior military officers.

Dempsey’s warning, conveyed to both Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak, represents the strongest move yet by President Barack Obama to deter an Israeli attack and ensure that the United States is not caught up in a regional conflagration with Iran.

Sorry for those who think this is a good thing, it is not. If our president or a possible future president does not speak up and tell this general to stfu, it shows to me the insobordination of the general and the military in our system. It isn't his place to speak about diplomatic matters, and I think this shows the blurring of the lines of whos job is what in our country. Once we start allowing the generals to create the countries policy and speak of it openly, we are setting ourselves up for a mess in the near future.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Fair chance that the General was under orders to speak on this. Obama is looking for a war, he needs one to get the economy rolling to insure his reelection. He has known this for a very long time which is why he keeps up with policies to insure we get into one.
 

witness23

Veteran Expediter
Fair chance that the General was under orders to speak on this. Obama is looking for a war, he needs one to get the economy rolling to insure his reelection. He has known this for a very long time which is why he keeps up with policies to insure we get into one.

The President wants a war? That sounds like "liberal" commie talk to me. Seems to me, not that long ago, their were people accusing Bush of doing the same thing.

To get the economy rolling? I thought the President wanted to sink the U.S. economy? I'm confused. :confused: I'm not sure how anyone in their right mind would think a war with Iran would help our economy, especially since Iraq and Afganistan has been anything but disastrous for our economy.
 

witness23

Veteran Expediter
It would give the President an excuse to raise taxes though. Unlike our last President who thought it was a good idea to actually lower taxes while we were occupying Iraq and Afganistan. :rolleyes:
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Let lsrael strike, none of our business.
I can live with that - provided that our current and future position is that Israel, along with all other countries, are on their own, with respect to their relations with others.

You are correct - it is none of our business.

Of course, the reverse of that holds true as well - should Israel fail to get along with her neighbors, fail act in a just manner, then let her reap what she has sown.

So should it be for all nations ......

Why be concerned about the attack on the Liberty? Old news and they were just a bunch of "spooks". I though "spooks" were fair game.
I'm afraid that your perception of my views is quite flawed and overly simplistic (at best) .... which may come as no great surprise to more than a few reading here.

I can name you a good number of folks who, as part of the intel community, might be considered "spooks" that I actually have a great deal of respect for ..... based on their actions and doing what (IMO) is right ....

(This quite often involves telling the truth - a premise that some in the intel community are very definitely against .... even to the point of lying about the most frivolous of things for no good reason whatsoever .... :rolleyes:)

Conversely, I can also name a good number of folks in the same community that ought to be tried (and convicted) of crimes that carry the death penalty, up to, and including treason.

As was pointed out at Nuremberg, the excuse of "I was just following orders" doesn't get one off the hook .....
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The President wants a war? That sounds like "liberal" commie talk to me. Seems to me, not that long ago, their were people accusing Bush of doing the same thing.

To get the economy rolling? I thought the President wanted to sink the U.S. economy? I'm confused. :confused: I'm not sure how anyone in their right mind would think a war with Iran would help our economy, especially since Iraq and Afganistan has been anything but disastrous for our economy.

Obama IS a liberal/commie/fascist pig type. Bush is not in office, Obama is, deal with today.

Obama wants to destroy the economy/country. He is well aware that he just does not have enough time to do that in just one term. He needs to be reelected. To insure his reelection he needs the economy to improve, and quickly. He knows that could very well could get much worse by Nov if he does not involve us in something drastic. A really big war would more than achieve his goals. He cannot be trusted. Evil is as evil does.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
I think one reason NOT to deal with this issue is because I think we and the UN for that matter can not attack Iran for their developement of Nuke power unless we want to nullify the entire treaty.
Yup.

Sorry for those who think this is a good thing, it is not. If our president or a possible future president does not speak up and tell this general to stfu, it shows to me the insobordination of the general and the military in our system. It isn't his place to speak about diplomatic matters, and I think this shows the blurring of the lines of whos job is what in our country. Once we start allowing the generals to create the countries policy and speak of it openly, we are setting ourselves up for a mess in the near future.
You need to read it again - from what I can see, he hasn't spoken of it openly.

Further, it's my guess that he was dispatched at the Administration's behest to carry the message to Bibi & Company that they are on their own, we will act to protect our troops, and they shouldn't expect us to be a White Knight .... riding to their rescue for an unnecessary conflagration that they intentionally (and unnecessarily) start.
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
The President wants a war? That sounds like "liberal" commie talk to me. Seems to me, not that long ago, their were people accusing Bush of doing the same thing.

To get the economy rolling? I thought the President wanted to sink the U.S. economy? I'm confused. :confused: I'm not sure how anyone in their right mind would think a war with Iran would help our economy, especially since Iraq and Afganistan has been anything but disastrous for our economy.
If you think you are going to get any kind of a logical, reasoned answer (and not just a pile of hysterical rhetoric inspired by hatred) to the above questions you ask, my only comment would be:

..... fuggaboutit .....
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I can live with that - provided that our current and future position is that Israel, along with all other countries, are on their own, with respect to their relations with others.

You are correct - it is none of our business.

Of course, the reverse of that holds true as well - should Israel fail to get along with her neighbors, fail act in a just manner, then let her reap what she has sown.

So should it be for all nations ......


I'm afraid that your perception of my views is quite flawed and overly simplistic (at best) .... which may come as no great surprise to more than a few reading here.

I can name you a good number of folks who, as part of the intel community, might be considered "spooks" that I actually have a great deal of respect for ..... based on their actions and doing what (IMO) is right ....

(This quite often involves telling the truth - a premise that some in the intel community are very definitely against .... even to the point of lying about the most frivolous of things for no good reason whatsoever .... :rolleyes:)

Conversely, I can also name a good number of folks in the same community that ought to be tried (and convicted) of crimes that carry the death penalty, up to, and including treason.

As was pointed out at Nuremberg, the excuse of "I was just following orders" doesn't get one off the hook .....

I find this post interesting. Kinda funny. Why is it that those who do the work are always to blame but those who issue the orders are never the problem. More latter, something just came up, sorry.
 
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cableguymn

Seasoned Expediter
It will be a great day for peace when there is no oil left for the Middle East to sell. Take away oil and these little fiefdoms have nothing. As it is now, we buy their oil, they grow rich and want to destroy Israel and as much of Western civilization as possible.

It appears Israel will strike Iran soon. Look for oil prices to soar. An unstable world harms all nations. Maybe it's time to deal these Middle East blackmailers once and for all. Once they achieve nuclear weapon capability, the risk of a nuclear exchange is simply untenable. If the Western Powers go in, let's hope a crushing blow is dealt in such a way as to permanently discourage any further nuclear ambitions among the oil fiefdoms.


who cares if they have oil to sell or not. We can get ours from Canada, Mexico and our own oil.

I do expect Israel to do what they need to to protect themselves.
 

witness23

Veteran Expediter
Obama IS a liberal/commie/fascist pig type. Bush is not in office, Obama is, deal with today.

Well, when you repeat what liberal/commie/fascist pigs were saying about Bush, one must conclude you had the same view of our last President. It just surprised me that you would be saying the same things as those to whom you have an obvious disdain for.


Obama wants to destroy the economy/country. He is well aware that he just does not have enough time to do that in just one term. He needs to be reelected. To insure his reelection he needs the economy to improve, and quickly. He knows that could very well could get much worse by Nov if he does not involve us in something drastic. A really big war would more than achieve his goals. He cannot be trusted. Evil is as evil does.

Wow! That is some mental gymnastics of epic proportions.

Just in case you were wondering, here is the definition of Mental Gymnastics:

Difficult and complex logical thought processes; Inventive, complex arguments used to justify unjustifiable decisions, or situations.
 

witness23

Veteran Expediter
If you think you are going to get any kind of a logical, reasoned answer (and not just a pile of hysterical rhetoric inspired by hatred) to the above questions you ask, my only comment would be:

..... fuggaboutit .....

Where's the "like" button when you need it.
 
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layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Where's the "like" when you need it.




I don't 'hate' Obama, I do not know him. I DO hate everything that he stands for. He is opposed to the Constitution in every way. His ideas are exactly what I spent 20 years fighting. Socialism, fascism and the like all assume government control of the people. That is what Obama believes in. I will not and cannot be controlled. That is the difference between a free man and a slave.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
If anyone wants to really understand the basic fundamentals of the nature of the Middle East conflict, and our nation's culpability in it, (as opposed to the utterly false Neoconmunist™ rhetoric and propaganda spewed out by the Lamestream Media ..... and a few on here ....) I would suggest the following short (recently released) white paper of a speech given (in 1977 ?) at the Friedman Auditorium at the National Security Agency by J. Rives Childs, former ambassador to Ethiopia and Saudi Arabia entitled "Bitter Roots: The Bases of Present Conflicts in the Middle East":

http://cryptome.org/0006/Bitter_Roots.pdf

It's a fairly quick read .... and cuts to the chase .....
 
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