New HOS Rules are out

jjoerger

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Army
There are a lot of reasons why that 1/2 hour will mess with a teams hours. Both people off of the clock at the same time will cause problems.

Someone will just have to explain to the customers that there freight will only be watched 23.5 hours per day. I'm sure the DOD will adjust.
Imagine this new macro for the QC. Freight unsecure, both drivers off duty, back in 30 minutes.
Maybe this could open up a whole new area of business. Freight watchers at the truck stops and rest areas.:rolleyes:
 
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nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
Someone will just have to explain to the customers that there freight will only be watched 23.5 hours per day. I'm sure the DOD will adjust.
Imagine this new macro for the QC. Freight unsecure, both drivers off duty, back in 30 minutes.
Maybe this could open up a whole new area of business. Freight watchers at the truck stops and rest areas.:rolleyes:

Lind there is a provision for DOD loads
 

TeamCaffee

Administrator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
Someone will just have to explain to the customers that there freight will only be watched 23.5 hours per day. I'm sure the DOD will adjust.
Imagine this new macro for the QC. Freight unsecure, both drivers off duty, back in 30 minutes.
Maybe this could open up a whole new area of business. Freight watchers at the truck stops and rest areas.:rolleyes:

This is the exemption for DoD but this does not cover everything that requires Dual Driver Protection:

The final rule requires that if more than 8 consecutive hours on duty have passed since the last off-duty (or sleeper-berth) period of at least half an hour, a driver must take a break of at least 30 minutes before driving. To address an issue raised by commenters, FMCSA has also added an exception for drivers of commercial motor vehicles (CMVs) carrying Division 1.1, 1.2, or 1.3 explosives to allow them to count on-duty time spent attending the CMV, but doing no other on-duty work, toward the break.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Going to need a LOT more "safe haven" areas on non-
DOD secure loads. Those 1-5 for the 34 is going to put a hurt on long, guarded loads. More than once we have had to have a truck guard us while we reset. MMMM, what about that guarded load we had a couple of year ago. BC to TX with 2.5 days in Wyoming when the road got closed. NO "safe haven" in the area that time. Going to get interesting.
 

jjoerger

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Army
This is the exemption for DoD but this does not cover everything that requires Dual Driver Protection:

The final rule requires that if more than 8 consecutive hours on duty have passed since the last off-duty (or sleeper-berth) period of at least half an hour, a driver must take a break of at least 30 minutes before driving. To address an issue raised by commenters, FMCSA has also added an exception for drivers of commercial motor vehicles (CMVs) carrying Division 1.1, 1.2, or 1.3 explosives to allow them to count on-duty time spent attending the CMV, but doing no other on-duty work, toward the break.

That was my point. There is a lot of freight that requires Driver Protective Services. Some non explosive DOD, other government agency's freight, high dollar value freight, electronics, video games, etc., etc.
How will that freight be protected if both drivers are off duty?
 

jjoerger

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Army
I don't think the rule as written will ever go into effect.
Let the litigation begin.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
I am sure by July of 2013 there will be a solution to this problem.

You have more faith than I do. Who's going to solve the problem? The same people who created it in the first place?

They were told of the issues in the listening sessions and in other ways. Having other fish to fry, they simply ignored this vital input.

If I was a general just now becoming aware of this new, bureaucrat-created problem and I had sensitive freight to move, my first instinct would be to ignore the bureaucrats, put my freight on military trucks and task my troops to do the job. Soldiers are already trained with guns and can easily be armed. They are accustomed to harsh conditions. They are not subject to HOS and they don't need a sleeper to move freight and keep it secure while in transit. Problem solved.

Will that come to pass? I don't know. But I don't know either that the people who created this problem can be counted on to solve it.

I would not assume that this will somehow work itself out and everything will be like it was before. The new rule will not be quickly changed and the longer it is out there, the more time shippers and the marketplace will have to invent solutions that were not previously considered. Since the old ways are no longer practical because of the rule change, what might the new ways be?

How about escorts in the truck on every security load with the requirement that the truckers provide sleeping space for the escort so the escort can be awake while the driver's take their mandated sleeper time and 30 minute break?

Freight watchers were mentioned above. Might it become so?

More safe havens were mentioned above. Might these loads come to take twice as long to deliver because of out of route safe haven stops that must be made? There may be an opportunity here...Bubba's Roadside Safe Haven; $250 per 30 minute stay, outhouse extra.
 
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OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Going to need a LOT more "safe haven" areas on non-
DOD secure loads. Those 1-5 for the 34 is going to put a hurt on long, guarded loads. More than once we have had to have a truck guard us while we reset. MMMM, what about that guarded load we had a couple of year ago. BC to TX with 2.5 days in Wyoming when the road got closed. NO "safe haven" in the area that time. Going to get interesting.

I don't think FMSCA cares about some minimal "guarded" loads....your customers create that silliness. if you have an escort or spy car along...let them secure ya while you go off duty......

it is not your problem...it is the customers problem is what I mean...
 
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jimby82

Veteran Expediter
To address an issue raised by commenters, FMCSA has also added an exception for drivers of commercial motor vehicles (CMVs) carrying Division 1.1, 1.2, or 1.3 explosives to allow them to count on-duty time spent attending the CMV, but doing no other on-duty work, toward the break.

So in the infinite wisdom :eek:, of our government regulators, the new rule (mandatory break after 8 hours) will be much safer than the current (no mandatory break) rule. BUT, if you are hauling something that might possibly go "boom", it's OK to not follow the new (safer) rule; you even get an exception to the new rule? Huh? Now that's really putting a emphasis on safety. :cool:
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
I don't think FMSCA cares about some minimal "guarded" loads....your customers create that silliness. if you have an escort or spy car along...let them secure ya while you go off duty......

it is not your problem...it is the customers problem is what I mean...

That's exactly right. It's the customers' problem.

The FMCSA has made it obvious that they don't care even a tiny bit about economic opportunities and careers of truck drivers who provided secure services under the old rules. If a problem exists, it falls to the customers and marketplace to solve it, not the FMCSA.

Like the FMCSA, customers will not care about the economic opportunities and careers of the truck drivers who provided secure services under the old rules. Their first concern is maintaining the load security that they think they need.

I can imagine the customer conversations going on now. Do we really need exclusive use? What about shipping less often and using convoys? What about those vans? They don't have to follow HOS rules. Can they be used to ship our freight and/or as escorts? My cousin Fred and his wife are cleared. They just retired and have a pickup and would love to pull their RV trailer around the country. Can they be used? How much more is this going to cost us? Will we need to set up accounts with secure-hold facilities so we can pay to park those drivers to do nothing while they are under load? Should we use planes instead of trucks to move this stuff now that truckers cannot secure the freight 24/7? That might be less expensive than paying two trucks or paying for secure parking. Maybe we should talk to FedEx, UPS, Landstar and other big logistics companies about chain of custody services while our sensitive freight is on cargo planes booked by them. Exclusive use trucking has been convenient in the past but since that is no longer a secure option, what chain of custody options should we consider and create? What about local security companies? Might they have cleared guards who can be dispatched to a parked truck to guard it for 30 minutes? Do we need to set up an account with a large security company that can provide such a service at locations nationwide? If so, might those same companies be interested in taking custody of and transporting our goods dock to dock so we don't have to deal with multiple vendors?

You can be sure that many solutions will be considered as customers address the issues, and that little if any consideration will be given by customers to the financial well being of the truckers who served them well in years past.

Linda's hope that the problems will be solved by 2013 is understandable. It is a hope I share. But it is important to note that our problems and our customers' problems are not the same, and it is them, not us, who will develop the solutions. We're truckers with trucks to offer if customers and carriers can figure out a way to use us. Under the new rules, that's about all we bring to the table regarding secure loads.

You can also be sure that carriers are having conversations. The rules have changed. How can we reconfigure our services to provide what our customers need? Since OTR truckers can no longer provide security 24/7 by themselves, what other solutions can we invent?

No carrier is asking how can we keep Joe and Jane expediter making their truck payments? They are asking, how can we meet customer needs and make money under the new rules?
 
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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
That was my point. There is a lot of freight that requires Driver Protective Services. Some non explosive DOD, other government agency's freight, high dollar value freight, electronics, video games, etc., etc.
How will that freight be protected if both drivers are off duty?

One solution may be for customers to add a box or canister of HAZMAT freight to the non-HAZMAT but secure shipment that allows the drivers to secure the load 24/7.

A similar approach is already taken under HAZMAT rules where, to avoid a negative situation, a one piece HAZMAT load becomes a two piece load when an ink pen or some other ridiculous object is added to the shipment and bill of lading so that easier rules then govern that two piece shipment.
 
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greg334

Veteran Expediter
I guess it is worth repeating - this is a carrier problem. Being a DoD load or a hazmat load really doesn't mean the end of the world, to be exact, many need to read the 30 minute break thing a bit to understand the limit and latitude built into the break.
 

pearlpro

Expert Expediter
Until a real Drivers advisory board and not the Suits can have a real legal input into these things I see the mess getting worse, Lawyers, Accountants, and Safety Industry EXPERTS, Now set the bar for the rest of us who work in this Industry and daily encounter the tribulations of Highways, Lack of detention pay, Bad attitudes or accountability and who see the abuse and misuse of the so called safety Mandates, physicals, Sleep apnea, EOBRs etc etc etc....welcome to the Life of Professioanl Truck drivers who have more people without real experience and lack of involvment telling us what we should do and not do.....BAH HUMBUG
 

gypsie

Active Expediter
From what I gather, the only thing really changed is we have to take a 30 min. break after 8 consecutive hrs. driving/working? It really seems nothing more than a freakin "power" move on behalf of the FMASSES!! It's ALL "EL TORO CRAPPO" if you ask me. The 30 min. break is not going to do anything for us except add stress on delivering that load we are on. If you think about it, that 30 min. is going to turn into an hr.....from the time we touch the break and go off the exit and find a place to park (15 min.), take 30 min....release brakes and eccelerate and getting back onto the interstate (another 15 min.) = 60 minutes!! As for running on home terminal time......HEY YOU JERKWADS...WE RUN ON EASTERN TIME ANY FREAKING WAY!!

The 34 hr. reset: WHY DO YOU EVEN WASTE TIME WITH THIS?? We are already required to reset 34 after 70. Only now the 34 has to fall between 1 a.m. and 5 a.m.......so if we sit for 2-3 days and begin at noon it doesn't count?? Just MORE CONTROL CRAP!!

And the terminology they use....WHO WRITES THIS CRAP?????? The wording they use is so freakin complicated....they give me a stress headache! HEY FMASSES......YOUR RULES ARE STRESSING ME OUT AND STRESS NEEDS TREATED BY A DR....THEREFORE YOU ARE CAUSING A RAISE IN MY MEDICAL BILLS BECAUSE OF THE ULCERS YOU ARE GIVING ME AND I CAN'T SLEEP CAUSE THEY KEEP ME AWAKE, ADDING TO THE DRIVER FATIGUE!!
 

TeamCaffee

Administrator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
The time for ranting and raving is over....
There were listening sessions
There were shows on how to write comments to FMCSA
There was an easy to use website to address the comments

Those that did not write in or did not go to a comment session sent a clear message that they would be happy with whatever FMCSA proposed.

The listening sessions were full of people saying they needed a break during the day where they could take a short nap.... They got what they asked for

There were many teams saying they wanted to be able to ride in the front seat instead of cooped up in the sleeper for ten hours... They got what they asked for

Many drivers said they wanted the eleven hours of drive time and they got what they asked for

The way the restart is configured was from the sleep studies that they performed which were odd and did not use many people and none were truck drivers...

I thought they did one heck of a good job listening to the people who commented at the sessions... I do not think they paid much attention to the letters that were written.
 

moose

Veteran Expediter
The rezone we have a new HOS rule, is because of a court mandate, saying in the process of making up the,now, old rule, the agency ignored the effects on drivers health.
in the new rule the agency, AGAIN ignored drivers health, and did not address the court concerns.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
But like the sleep apnea thing, the studies used for the most part were not applicable to the type of work being done in the industry. They used computer models with some situational studies to formulate the "needs" to drive safe. The 11 hour rule was a giveaway to appease those who complain.

Still no one has taught the industry how to speak with one single voice and those who cause more problems than the majority are the dregs of the industry that we, the people in the industry, should be dealing with to rid ourselves of them.
 
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