"Moving day"???

paullud

Veteran Expediter
I understand that you feel that way but that's what is killing republicans...too many people are not in favor of laws that are based on someone else's religious views. It's okay for you to not do it yourself but it's not okay for you to deny others rights like marriage bc you think same sex marriage is a sin.

)O( ~ Namaste ~ )O(

If you actually believe that people's beliefs should not be forced on others and separation of church and state then you need to be anti-gay marriage. Marriage was a religious ceremony that the government got involved in and now homosexuals are forcing their beliefs into religion. They should be given a special law to have civil unions instead that give them the same benefits of marriage. They are not looking for equal rights they are looking for benefits above and beyond.

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cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
I never said I would move to Canada if Romney won, but I did say I'd consider it - the man worried me THAT much.
He would cut taxes on business [hasn't worked before, ever], cut aid to the working poor [I don't like kids going hungry], defund Planned Parenthood [lots more babies for poverty stricken women], try to appoint a SC judge to overturn Roe vs Wade [back to back alley abortions - that's progress?] eliminate regulations [but we don't know which ones, he'd never say], and the scariest part is that the guy insults people [here and abroad] constantly, and doesn't even know he's doing it because he is just plain clueless about anything outside his narrow minded worldview. THAT'S the last thing America needs right now. [Or ever, really.]

 

pandora2112

Seasoned Expediter
If you actually believe that people's beliefs should not be forced on others and separation of church and state then you need to be anti-gay marriage. Marriage was a religious ceremony that the government got involved in and now homosexuals are forcing their beliefs into religion. They should be given a special law to have civil unions instead that give them the same benefits of marriage. They are not looking for equal rights they are looking for benefits above and beyond.

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Then no more marriage certificates everyone gets a civil union...the ceremony maybe religious but the certificate is not. And straight atheists getting married is fine right?!?

)O( ~ Namaste ~ )O(
 

spongebox

Active Expediter
Homosexuals are not forcing there believe on others, its the church that's pushing there beliefs on to those who live a lifestyle other than the one the bible preaches, and all they are looking for is equal rights, you just refuse to get past your own issues with this topic, who gives you or anyone the right to say two males or two females cam or can't be married, if it harms no one do what ye will, love thy neighbor? Only if thy neighbor is a straight republican white middle aged man who can control the public

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paullud

Veteran Expediter
Then no more marriage certificates everyone gets a civil union...the ceremony maybe religious but the certificate is not. And straight atheists getting married is fine right?!?

)O( ~ Namaste ~ )O(

That's fine by me, the government has no business in marriage.

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paullud

Veteran Expediter
Homosexuals are not forcing there believe on others, its the church that's pushing there beliefs on to those who live a lifestyle other than the one the bible preaches, and all they are looking for is equal rights, you just refuse to get past your own issues with this topic, who gives you or anyone the right to say two males or two females cam or can't be married, if it harms no one do what ye will, love thy neighbor? Only if thy neighbor is a straight republican white middle aged man who can control the public

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You don't seem to understand my point. A marriage was a religious ceremony but then the government got involved. What happened to the separation of church and state that liberals want? Then you have people deciding that they can hijack this religious ceremony through the government which is forcing the gay's views on the church. I am clearly moving beyond my own views because I am saying that they should be able to have a civil union to get the same benefits, I'm not sure what you don't understand about that. You have your prejudice views which seem to cause you to just think it must only be straight Republican males that oppose gay marriage but seem to have forgotten California voted it down.

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xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I never said I would move to Canada if Romney won, but I did say I'd consider it - the man worried me THAT much.
He would cut taxes on business [hasn't worked before, ever], cut aid to the working poor [I don't like kids going hungry], defund Planned Parenthood [lots more babies for poverty stricken women], try to appoint a SC judge to overturn Roe vs Wade [back to back alley abortions - that's progress?] eliminate regulations [but we don't know which ones, he'd never say], and the scariest part is that the guy insults people [here and abroad] constantly, and doesn't even know he's doing it because he is just plain clueless about anything outside his narrow minded worldview. THAT'S the last thing America needs right now. [Or ever, really.]


Ever thought of writing function books?

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muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I never said I would move to Canada if Romney won, but I did say I'd consider it - the man worried me THAT much.
He would cut taxes on business [hasn't worked before, ever], cut aid to the working poor [I don't like kids going hungry], defund Planned Parenthood [lots more babies for poverty stricken women], try to appoint a SC judge to overturn Roe vs Wade [back to back alley abortions - that's progress?] eliminate regulations [but we don't know which ones, he'd never say], and the scariest part is that the guy insults people [here and abroad] constantly, and doesn't even know he's doing it because he is just plain clueless about anything outside his narrow minded worldview. THAT'S the last thing America needs right now. [Or ever, really.]


Cut taxes on businesses. Reagan did it in the 1980's and grew the economy. Don't think Romney would have cut aid to the working poor. His plan would have created higher take home pay for the working poor and created more jobs for them . Less people would have needed aid . Lets be accurate now.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Homosexuals are not forcing there believe on others,...
Oh, yes they are. And they use the courts to do it, finding a sympathetic judge who will legislate their wishes from the bench. The list of homosexual agenda court rulings is extensive.

its the church that's pushing there beliefs on to those who live a lifestyle other than the one the bible preaches,
Religious folks do that, as well. But the two issues (religious folks pushing their beliefs onto others and homosexuals pushing their beliefs onto others) aren't either/or, they aren't mutually exclusive by any means. The religious right tries all day long to have the courts legislate their beliefs, wants and wishes.

and all they are looking for is equal rights,
No, they aren't looking for equal rights, they're looking for special rights. There was a time, not too long ago, when it was called "gay rights", because that's what they are, special rights for gays, but gays no longer use that term because it's too easy for non-gays to be against such special rights. Now, they use "civil rights" as the only accepted euphemism to make people think that what gays want is the same thing that everybody else has, and who wants to be thought of as being against "civil rights?". No one. So they call it civil rights, when it's not.

They redefine terms at will, just like they are trying to redefine "marriage". They invent a phobia, which by definition is an irrational fear of something. No one likes to be known as having an irrational fear of something. Yet their invented term, homophobia, doesn't even mean an irrational fear of homosexuals, it means someone who doesn't accept and embrace homosexuality and homosexuals as being perfectly fine and normal within society. You disagree with any part of the gay agenda and you're a full-on homophone, you evil homophobe, you!

It used to be known as "same sex marriage" or "homosexual marriage", but the leaders of the homosexual community (and they have them) decided to label it as "equal marriage", because they want people to view their plight as pitiful and unfair, as someone not being given something equal to everyone else, and who wants to be viewed as not allowing someone to be equal? No one. So, they call it equal marriage, when it's not.

The fact is, homosexuals currently, right now, today, have precisely the same right to marry as heterosexuals do. If you're a gay man, go find a woman and marry her. If you're a gay woman, go find a man and marry him. It's real easy. Anybody can do it. Many gays have married heterosexuals. But homosexuals don't have the right to redefine what "marriage" means, and that's precisely what they want to do. They want it to mean the joining of two people who love each other, and oftentimes it is, but that's not what it means. For centuries marriages were arranged, and marrying for love was the exception rather than the rule. It's really only been since the middle of the 19th century where marrying for love started to become the norm. Fact is, what marriage means, and always has meant in the context of joining any two people together, is the union of a man and a woman.

When you hear someone talk about equal marriage and civil rights with respect to homosexuals, it's a load of crap. A load...of...crap. It's not about either equal marriage or civil rights at all, it's about winning.

Homosexuals were offered Civil Unions that would give them the same exact rights they are clamoring for, the exact legal rights they say they want, the same rights as any other married couple. But they rejected Civil Unions outright, not good enough, because it's not about equal rights or civil rights, it's about winning. They want the M-word, and nothing short of that is acceptable.

Marriage is at it's core a religious institution, not a civil one. The Bible denotes homosexuality as an abomination, and gays don't like that. Not even a little bit. They want to get back at the church by going directly after the Bible and scripture. They want to beat the Christians. They want to thumb their nose at Christians and the Bible. They want to force Christians to accept them. They want to win.

Ironically, if they had accepted Civil Unions years ago when it was offered, most people in society would be referring to it as "married" by now, anyway, and it would be a de facto marriage in both concept and reality. But by pushing their agenda through the courts (AKA forcing their views onto others), sometimes winning only to then have legislatures and voters reverse it in a massive statement of backlash, they have caused state after state to enact legislation, sometimes even alter State Constitutions, to formally define what marriage means, thereby all but eliminating their chances of winning on the scale they want.

you just refuse to get past your own issues with this topic, who gives you or anyone the right to say two males or two females cam or can't be married, if it harms no one do what ye will, love thy neighbor? Only if thy neighbor is a straight republican white middle aged man who can control the public
Hardly. It's perfectly normal for the homosexual to be homosexual, but that doesn't mean homosexuality is normal, by any stretch, much less should it be embraced and accepted by society. In fact, homosexuality not even as pedestrian as "abnormal", it goes far past that to what is known as "anormal", a term primarily used in biological and technological contexts, but is applicable in homosexuality. Abnormal is something that is not normal, not average, not typical, something that deviates from the standard, for which clearly homosexuality fits the bill. Anormal, on the other hand, goes against the type, is contrary to the rule. The purpose of sex is not for "if it feels good, do it" purposes, it's for procreation, the survival of the species, same as it is for every other species on this planet that reproduces sexually. A heterosexual couple who cannot have children for one reason or another via sexual reproduction (be it in a test tube or the more traditional way), that's abnormal. But a homosexual couple goes against the type, the purpose, the reason that sex exists in the first place. They might as well be having sexual relations with a street lamp or a fire plug for all the good it will do them, for society and for the species. You don't have to have ever read the Bible or believe in anything religious to know that homosexuality is wrong, incorrect and unacceptable to the normals of the species.
 

pandora2112

Seasoned Expediter
Marriage has been redefined...arranged marriages are not the norm in the USA, the fact you can't sell your daughter to the highest bidder that's redefined marriage.
And offering someone a civil union that does not automatically afford them the right as spouses? That's a way to just shut people up...a civil union doesn't necessarily give them the same rights as a married man and woman. That's why it's been rejected in the past.
And if homosexuality is so anormal or even abnormal then why does it occur not only in our species but in literally hundreds of other species...
Disclaimer: tired so my spelling and condensed version may not be as understandable as I wish! Have a going night! :)

)O( ~ Namaste ~ )O(
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Marriage has been redefined...arranged marriages are not the norm in the USA, the fact you can't sell your daughter to the highest bidder that's redefined marriage.
That doesn't redefine marriage at all. Regardless of how the marriage takes place, its still the union of a man and a woman.

And offering someone a civil union that does not automatically afford them the right as spouses? That's a way to just shut people up...a civil union doesn't necessarily give them the same rights as a married man and woman. That's why it's been rejected in the past.
Actually, a civil union gives the same exact rights as a married man and woman. Exactly the same spousal rights as someone married in a church or before a justice of the peace. That's the whole purpose of a civil union. And it's that very thing which homosexuals rejected out of hand. Not good enough.

And if homosexuality is so anormal or even abnormal then why does it occur not only in our species but in literally hundreds of other species...
The fact that an abnormality occurs is natural, in humans and in nearly every species on the planet. It's a part of how evolution and natural selection selection works. The fact that some people are born with club feet is a naturally occurring phenomenon, but club feet are not normal. There are all manner of birth defects, deformities and deviations from the norm in all species. The fact that they occur within nature is normal, but any individual abnormality is not normal simply because it occurs in nature. Homosexuality is no different, unless those who believe every creation is a creation by God, and God doesn't make mistakes, but that presents a whole new set of problems from the "Go Forth and Multiply" Guy.

So the fact that homosexuality occurs at all is perfectly normal, but homosexuality itself is not normal. If it were, the species would not be able to survive, since the propagation of and survival of the species is the entire purpose of sexual reproduction, and thus the primary purpose of sex. The reason sex is so much fun and why the sexual drive is so strong is to ensure that very propagation of the species. Anyone, be it a human or some other species, if their sexual drive causes then to want to have sex with something or someone that cannot achieve that goal, it's an anomality.
 

spongebox

Active Expediter
I'm over people telling others what to do, who to marry where to walk and talk, I'm done trying to figure out why the Christian moral majority wishes to be dictator to the masses...

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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Moral Majority, another invented term that doesn't reflect reality.
 

pandora2112

Seasoned Expediter
You do also realize that many ancient societies allowed same sex marriage? Egypt and Mesopotamia...even Greece and Rome had some same sex unions. It was not until the new kid on the block Christianity became the dominate religion that same sex marriage became frowned upon. So it's quite possible that saying marriage is only between a man and woman is trying to redefine marriage.
Oops almost forgot Native Americans had the Berdache or two spirit people, they could marry and in fact if a child was without parents the Berdache were the ones the tribe had adopt the orphan.

)O( ~ Namaste ~ )O(
 

mjmsprt40

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I am going to respectfully ask that this thread be closed. It is way off track, and I think y'all can argue LBGT issues on some other thread--- perhaps a thread started for that very purpose. For the record: I stand firmly behind Christian belief and principles. That stands to reason since I'm a member of one of the more conservative groups. I thought to ask only one question: Why do some of you think we need two Democrat parties? That is what you propose when you say the only way the Republicans can win is to load up on the entire liberal agenda. The Republican party ceases to exist at that point, becoming a duplicate of the Democrat party.
 

pandora2112

Seasoned Expediter
Republicans and Democrats differ on issues like taxes, gun rights and health care. The republicans are more likely to have my vote on these issues but lose many because they continue to want policies based on their bible...e.i. gay marriage, ten commandments displays in public buildings, etc. That's where they lose me and many others.
)O( ~ Namaste ~ )O(
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I am going to respectfully ask that this thread be closed. It is way off track, and I think y'all can argue LBGT issues on some other thread--- perhaps a thread started for that very purpose. For the record: I stand firmly behind Christian belief and principles. That stands to reason since I'm a member of one of the more conservative groups. I thought to ask only one question: Why do some of you think we need two Democrat parties? That is what you propose when you say the only way the Republicans can win is to load up on the entire liberal agenda. The Republican party ceases to exist at that point, becoming a duplicate of the Democrat party.

If we closed down threads because they go off track, we'd never have any open threads. Also, you can't really ask to close the thread because it's off track, and in the same paragraph continue the discussion by stating which principles you stand behind, and then taking the thread further off track by asking the question you just asked about two democratic parties.

As far as Greece, Rome, Mesopotamia, et, al, those were different cultures in different times, with different legalities involved, and even in those the same sex marriage was the exception to the rule, not the norm. The norm is what sex was created for.

Throwing out exceptions to normalcy to make a case for the exception to become the norm is over of the weakest logical fallacy arguments one can make. The only real, valid argument that one can make to allow homosexuals to have the M-word after rejecting civil unions is, they should have it because they want it really, really badly. Three-year-olds know well to use that logic. Because it works. It's a reason that might not be accepted by society, of course, but at least it's honest.
 
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