Is It Worth It?

CharlesD · Oct 27, 2014

I got on Sylectus as a two vehicle operation back when it was still gps411, at the small carrier level. Being on there helped us grow to where we are now, which while not being huge, is still larger than we were before. I don't think locking out the small carrier level was a good thing, because mostly it's based on the false premise that all the problems with the rates are because of small carriers lowballing. When I post loads, it's usually the larger carriers that bid lower. Maybe something about making money on volume while the little guy has to make a certain margin.

crich · Oct 27, 2014

I have dealt with 3pls for the last decade. 3pls can take a 1 truck carrier and give them access to large shippers that a owner op would never get into. who has more freight panther the fed or ch robinson? who is worth more money. panther never offered me $2 per mile on runs over 1000 miles in a cargo van but ch does and I love it. and the best part is I don't need 10 trucks and it cost me $0 to view the loads. who needs selectus with subscriber fees. not me

Tennesseahawk · Oct 27, 2014

CharlesD said:
I got on Sylectus as a two vehicle operation back when it was still gps411, at the small carrier level. Being on there helped us grow to where we are now, which while not being huge, is still larger than we were before. I don't think locking out the small carrier level was a good thing, because mostly it's based on the false premise that all the problems with the rates are because of small carriers lowballing. When I post loads, it's usually the larger carriers that bid lower. Maybe something about making money on volume while the little guy has to make a certain margin.

I would say the bigger problem was not verifying things like VIN numbers, DOT numbers and insurance, on companies entering the game.

Tennesseahawk · Oct 27, 2014

jelliott said:
Well one is a transportation management software. The other is an industry trade organization. They split exclusive affiliations many years ago.

Kind of like comparison of Qualcomm vs the ATA.

But they're still married. I'd say a perfect example is the family and the racket. If you call it mafia, it basically covers everything.

davekc · Oct 27, 2014

crich said:
I have dealt with 3pls for the last decade. 3pls can take a 1 truck carrier and give them access to large shippers that a owner op would never get into. who has more freight panther the fed or ch robinson? who is worth more money. panther never offered me $2 per mile on runs over 1000 miles in a cargo van but ch does and I love it. and the best part is I don't need 10 trucks and it cost me $0 to view the loads. who needs selectus with subscriber fees. not me

Umm??? Ok. So, https://www.chrwtrucks.com/ routinely offers cargo van loads at 1000 miles for $2.00 a mile. Umm, no. If so, everyone would be there. A load to BFE...maybe. But not routinely. Maybe you know someone "special". That's it.

Just not a reality. This doesn't have anything to do with "what is your day rate"? does it?

jelliott · Oct 27, 2014

Tennesseahawk said:
But they're still married. I'd say a perfect example is the family and the racket. If you call it mafia, it basically covers everything.

Actually not at all. A good number of TEANA members are not Sylectus users like the Fed and Panther as two notable ones. Sylectus is an affiliate member just like any other provider like Fleet One or CIS, or Qualcomm for instance.

For instance TEANA helps its members with brokerage bonds and does legislative activity as being a direct member in two lawsuits against the FMCSA. Hawk, I think if you knew more about the organization you would see the drastic lack of relationship or similarity.

Tennesseahawk · Oct 27, 2014

jelliott said:
Actually not at all. A good number of TEANA members are not Sylectus users like the Fed and Panther as two notable ones. Sylectus is an affiliate member just like any other provider like Fleet One or CIS, or Qualcomm for instance.

For instance TEANA helps its members with brokerage bonds and does legislative activity as being a direct member in two lawsuits against the FMCSA. Hawk, I think if you knew more about the organization you would see the drastic lack of relationship or similarity.

Yet, it is the TEANA members who put limits on whom would ultimately be Sylectus clients, right? What I would be doing, as a one truck company becoming a TEANA member, would be to rub elbows with members who are on Sylectus, and convince them to call me on a load with a rate they've had set, either because no one else is in the area, or no one else wants it. I have no dog in the bidding war. Having a ten truck minimum protects those already in the game from being underbid by one or two truck mom n pops; and at the same time, they want those low rates when they broker them out, many times.

My beef is that a guy like me believes in a fair rate, and would resist lowballing. You'd think people like that would be an asset to Sylectus. But we're lumped in with the Albanian Penske drivers. No distinction is given.

jelliott · Oct 28, 2014

Tennesseahawk said:
Yet, it is the TEANA members who put limits on whom would ultimately be Sylectus clients, right? What I would be doing, as a one truck company becoming a TEANA member, would be to rub elbows with members who are on Sylectus, and convince them to call me on a load with a rate they've had set, either because no one else is in the area, or no one else wants it. I have no dog in the bidding war. Having a ten truck minimum protects those already in the game from being underbid by one or two truck mom n pops; and at the same time, they want those low rates when they broker them out, many times.

My beef is that a guy like me believes in a fair rate, and would resist lowballing. You'd think people like that would be an asset to Sylectus. But we're lumped in with the Albanian Penske drivers. No distinction is given.

Actually no. TEANA has no say at all in who is or isn't sold Sylectus. Two decades ago I think they used TEANA more the opposite way. TEANA had a max size to be a member. The. You had to be a TEANA member to be on Sylectus. It was basically a shield to let the little guys compete without the really big carriers coming on and controlling. So it is actually the opposite of what you were thinking there.

Sylectus sets its own limits. Like any business they make look at a one truck operator as not a good target. The set up and training costs are the same for them but the revenue on a one or two truck operator would be low for them or if they charged what they needed one truck operators wouldn't touch it or complain. . It is also their greatest customer turnover. So I see the logic in them running their business how they see fit and why they pretty much abandoned the small carrier program. Simple business economics for them. It is that way in any business. If a customer tells us they need us to be EDI with them but we are only moving a load or two a month then financially it isn't a good move for they business. Unless we could charge enough for it and most likely customer would then complain about rates.

TEANA encourages small members. The philosophy is they will follow the code of ethics and learn from the training classes and conferences. The idea being they will see the rationale to run safe, compliant and properly insured and be a good business partner to other expedite carriers and maintain a good name for the expedite industry in general with the shippers and public.

CharlesD · Oct 28, 2014

davekc said:
Umm??? Ok. So, https://www.chrwtrucks.com/ routinely offers cargo van loads at 1000 miles for $2.00 a mile. Umm, no. If so, everyone would be there. A load to BFE...maybe. But not routinely. Maybe you know someone "special". That's it.
Just not a reality. This doesn't have anything to do with "what is your day rate"? does it?

They have quite a bit of expedite, but those loads aren't posted there. We see a lot of expedites from various offices.

Tennesseahawk · Oct 28, 2014

jelliott said:
Actually no. TEANA has no say at all in who is or isn't sold Sylectus. Two decades ago I think they used TEANA more the opposite way. TEANA had a max size to be a member. The. You had to be a TEANA member to be on Sylectus. It was basically a shield to let the little guys compete without the really big carriers coming on and controlling. So it is actually the opposite of what you were thinking there.

Sylectus sets its own limits. Like any business they make look at a one truck operator as not a good target. The set up and training costs are the same for them but the revenue on a one or two truck operator would be low for them or if they charged what they needed one truck operators wouldn't touch it or complain. . It is also their greatest customer turnover. So I see the logic in them running their business how they see fit and why they pretty much abandoned the small carrier program. Simple business economics for them. It is that way in any business. If a customer tells us they need us to be EDI with them but we are only moving a load or two a month then financially it isn't a good move for they business. Unless we could charge enough for it and most likely customer would then complain about rates.

TEANA encourages small members. The philosophy is they will follow the code of ethics and learn from the training classes and conferences. The idea being they will see the rationale to run safe, compliant and properly insured and be a good business partner to other expedite carriers and maintain a good name for the expedite industry in general with the shippers and public.

I don't buy that TEANA members don't have any say... at least don't use their clout. In fact, I've experienced it first hand, when trying to sign up under my own authority, and was denied because of a rule pushed by a TEANA member. Sylectus was making money hand over fist from all of the one truck wonders. At 150 a month, a pop, you'd have a hard time convincing me that if Sylectus was separate, they weren't enjoying the influx of the new mom n pops, and European fly-by-nights. Any company running from a cash cow like that, seems to be at the behest of the bigger customers.

This is where I bow out of the Sylectus/TEANA conversation, before I burn more bridges than I already have. But honestly, if I don't start seeing emergency freight having emergency rates again, I won't be back. I refuse to be beholden to bids that have gone thru multiple brokers, leaving the truck with hot dog money.

You have the last word, John.

jelliott · Oct 28, 2014

Do you think since they have hired a lot of sales people and been sold to Qualcomm and then Vista partners (both huge companies) that they would care what some TEANA members think or do you think if it was profitable they would be all over it? I truly think a venture capital firm is going to make its own business decisions. Now that $150 a month sounds great. But when you look at the 50% plus turnover rate they had on those carriers, and the equal amount of time in training and set up and from what I was told a huge amount of collection issues....I think they simply made a business decision.

The original idea of sylectus was a TMS where the users both had trucks and freight. So the software facilitated a great market concept. Well the push to grow the company was what facilitated the adding of tons of very small carriers. They saw it as a bid board and a freight source vs a true TMS. Well when they realized many carriers preferred to give freight to the other carriers that gave them freight, they didnt always get what they had hoped for in the sales pitch. Most of the very small carriers simply do not have freight and don't even have brokerage authority. The small carriers did not network and build relationships (granted harder to do when you are smaller) and when they didn't see an ROI on the monthly charge they left. After a while Sylectus realized that all the hassle, turnover and money issues that it wasn't a profitable market for them. It really is pretty simple business scenario that happened.

Now Sylectus does have a rule that you can not leave a Sylectus customer and go on their system for a certain period of time. That might have been what you are referring too. Being a TEANA member or not that is their rule and is applied whether the customer is a member of TEANA, TCA, OOIDA, ATA or any other organization.

crich · Oct 28, 2014

davekc said:
Umm??? Ok. So, https://www.chrwtrucks.com/ routinely offers cargo van loads at 1000 miles for $2.00 a mile. Umm, no. If so, everyone would be there. A load to BFE...maybe. But not routinely. Maybe you know someone "special". That's it.
Just not a reality. This doesn't have anything to do with "what is your day rate"? does it?

No nothing to do with it at all but I do support that concept . chrw is a good way to post your available trucks and find loads a very good example of how a 3pl invest its money in technology. if you keep your trucks up to date and establish a good service history eventually you will get several of their agents emailing you request for bids. I could most likely find 5 or 6 loads a day off chrw that would pay that kind of money to a cv.
but the emails are priceless.

crich · Oct 28, 2014

CharlesD said:
They have quite a bit of expedite, but those loads aren't posted there. We see a lot of expedites from various offices.

some of them offices like Flint ,MI are staffed 24 hours and send out request to all on the list.

CharlesD · Oct 28, 2014

crich said:
some of them offices like Flint ,MI are staffed 24 hours and send out request to all on the list.

Couple good ones in CA as well.

davekc · Oct 28, 2014

CharlesD said:
They have quite a bit of expedite, but those loads aren't posted there. We see a lot of expedites from various offices.

Very true. That was just a easy target on my pad at the time I posted it. My point being that those loads exist but cargo van loads over 1000 miles and paying over two a mile are not the norm. Again for the obvious reason, if they did as they send emails out, everyone would be grabbing them.

Tennesseahawk · Oct 28, 2014

Dave, how do you get thru to Panther when you find a load for your own truck? Is your contact number not thru the marathon line?

Moot · Oct 28, 2014

This thread made a wrong turn somewhere down the line.

scottm4211 · Oct 28, 2014

Moot said:
This thread made a wrong turn somewhere down the line.

Most seem to steer into an abutment.

crich · Oct 28, 2014

and my point is you can be on that 3pls list even as a single truck operator bidding against companies such as panther where if your an ic you will always buy into the crap @ .80 per mile when you could be getting much more. you do it because you are under the impression they can do it better than you cause they have so many units. or as a fleet owner you prefer a hands off approach and don't want dedicate yourself full time. you don't need a conference 2000 miles away to network. all you need to do is pickup the phone. is it worth it in my opinion yes. does it work for everyone no