Is It Worth It?

davekc · Oct 28, 2014

crich said:
and my point is you can be on that 3pls list even as a single truck operator bidding against companies such as panther where if your an ic you will always buy into the crap @ .80 per mile when you could be getting much more. you do it because you are under the impression they can do it better than you cause they have so many units. or as a fleet owner you prefer a hands off approach and don't want dedicate yourself full time. you don't need a conference 2000 miles away to network. all you need to do is pickup the phone. is it worth it in my opinion yes. does it work for everyone no

That I would agree with. Pros and cons to each. We have done both so always looking at both sides of it.

Tennesseahawk · Oct 29, 2014

Why'd this thread get unstapled?

fifaref2 · Oct 29, 2014

Tennesseahawk said:
Why'd this thread get unstapled?

Someone doesn't want the little guy doing it better

Murraycroexp · Oct 29, 2014

fifaref2 said:
Someone doesn't want the little guy doing it better

........did I hear my name?

fifaref2 · Oct 30, 2014

Murraycroexp said:
........did I hear my name?

Haha lmao ya heaven forbid some carrier don't get the Q fees from someone this week

Murraycroexp · Oct 30, 2014

fifaref2 said:
Haha lmao ya heaven forbid some carrier don't get the Q fees from someone this week

Yep. The list of "fed up" guys is growing longer and longer. Everyone sits. It's part of it. But should the math always be bad too?
Problem is, most of the good ones have been financially run into the ground by their carriers. IMO.
But yes, my ears burn periodically. I'm good with that!!!!

Tennesseahawk · Oct 30, 2014

Murraycroexp said:
Yep. The list of "fed up" guys is growing longer and longer. Everyone sits. It's part of it. But should the math always be bad too?
Problem is, most of the good ones have been financially run into the ground by their carriers. IMO.
But yes, my ears burn periodically. I'm good with that!!!!

Truckload is rebounding, apparently. Expedite has always been a precursor of what's to come in trucking as a whole. Maybe the writing is on the wall for expediting... it's vastly overpopulated, and the contractor rate goes thru a sieve of multiple brokers. As much as I want to say more, I won't.

Turtle · Oct 30, 2014

Tennesseahawk said:
Maybe the writing is on the wall for expediting... it's vastly overpopulated, and the contractor rate goes thru a sieve of multiple brokers.

I've been reading that on EO since a year before I joined up and became an expediter. That and the fact that there are too many vans out here. And, any day now, tomorrow probably, but maybe sooner, vans will have to log and scale.

Expediting is precisely as populated as the supply and demand will support. Always will be.

scottm4211 · Oct 30, 2014

As a lot of expediting goes the way of supply chain or even ltl type stuff, be assured there will always be a need for the cargo van aka

The Last Line of Expedite*®

Tennesseahawk · Oct 30, 2014

Turtle said:
I've been reading that on EO since a year before I joined up and became an expediter. That and the fact that there are too many vans out here. And, any day now, tomorrow probably, but maybe sooner, vans will have to log and scale.

Expediting is precisely as populated as the supply and demand will support. Always will be.

You could say the same thing about China's population. Tell me your rate per mile has gone up in the last year. Tell me why trucking rates have gone up, but expediting's hasn't... or has the shipper's charges gone up, yet the contractor's has gone down?

Again, this is nothing but my opinion, just like what you're stating is yours. I have no crystal ball; I can only go by my experience.

... and there are still too many vans out there.

Tennesseahawk · Oct 30, 2014

scottm4211 said:
As a lot of expediting goes the way of supply chain or even ltl type stuff, be assured there will always be a need for the cargo van aka The Last Line of Expedite*®

Sure there will. But there won't always be a need for the glut of vans out there now. Not saying expediting is going the way of the dodo, but there are problems out there, and rates due to lowballing due to overpopulation is one of them. Rates due to everyone having their fingers in the pie is another. Neither one is going to stop anytime soon.

Turtle · Oct 30, 2014

No, neither one is going away any time soon. And if there are more vans than expediting can support, the number of vans will be reduced to a level that expediting can support. Whatever that is, it'll be at a rate that is self-supporting. Whether that rate is enough for an individual driver is a different question.

OntarioVanMan · Oct 30, 2014

and to go with Hawks opinion...Fedex Freight, I mean LTL....just delivered my transmission from Edmund Ok to Toledo Ohio in less then 48 hrs for a whooping $185......just another nail in our coffin....

crich · Oct 31, 2014

davekc said:
A small carrier can be more competitive when just looking at bid boards. But as mentioned, regulations are shoving a bunch of them out, or they turn into a more rouge outfit. Look how many have come and gone that use to advertise here. The bigger ones can operate on a volume philosophy to a point but their "bread & butter" is getting their own accounts and shutting out many competitors. Small carriers lack the resources to compete at that high level. Many suppliers look for a "all or nothing" program and only look to certain ones that can provide the coverage and insurance.

that Is true to a point but that is exactly why very large shippers use 3pls the 3pl has a much larger truck following than 1 carrier. the 3pl takes on all of the shippers freight and manages what carriers haul it. can you name one shipper with any volume at all that uses just panther? a good 3pl will have access to all types of units and takes on all the headaches from selecting carriers and paying them in 2 days vs 30,60 or even 90 days. if there is any issues its worked out by the 3pl. maybe panther has changed a bit since I had a few trucks with them in 98-2001.I remember a panther that your first settlement came in the mail about 30 days after you turned in your paperwork and all our deductions from your first months pay was taken from your first weeks settlement and in most cases it resulted in negative balance. I know its different today but I remember very well how panther was.
not saying it was not worth it in the end for me but I seen a lot of bankruptcy from o/o's who put all their eggs in that basket.

Tennesseahawk · Oct 31, 2014

crich said:
that Is true to a point but that is exactly why very large shippers use 3pls the 3pl has a much larger truck following than 1 carrier. the 3pl takes on all of the shippers freight and manages what carriers haul it. can you name one shipper with any volume at all that uses just panther? a good 3pl will have access to all types of units and takes on all the headaches from selecting carriers and paying them in 2 days vs 30,60 or even 90 days. if there is any issues its worked out by the 3pl. maybe panther has changed a bit since I had a few trucks with them in 98-2001.I remember a panther that your first settlement came in the mail about 30 days after you turned in your paperwork and all our deductions from your first months pay was taken from your first weeks settlement and in most cases it resulted in negative balance. I know its different today but I remember very well how panther was.
not saying it was not worth it in the end for me but I seen a lot of bankruptcy from o/o's who put all their eggs in that basket.

99% of the bankruptcies from expediting have come from people who don't get the system, and fail to get out too soon; or are just bad business people. You got to know when to fold em, and walk away, or run.

davekc · Oct 31, 2014

crich said:
that Is true to a point but that is exactly why very large shippers use 3pls the 3pl has a much larger truck following than 1 carrier. the 3pl takes on all of the shippers freight and manages what carriers haul it. can you name one shipper with any volume at all that uses just panther? a good 3pl will have access to all types of units and takes on all the headaches from selecting carriers and paying them in 2 days vs 30,60 or even 90 days. if there is any issues its worked out by the 3pl. maybe panther has changed a bit since I had a few trucks with them in 98-2001.I remember a panther that your first settlement came in the mail about 30 days after you turned in your paperwork and all our deductions from your first months pay was taken from your first weeks settlement and in most cases it resulted in negative balance. I know its different today but I remember very well how panther was.
not saying it was not worth it in the end for me but I seen a lot of bankruptcy from o/o's who put all their eggs in that basket.

Panther has changed quite a bit since then. I am not aware of anyone waiting 30 days to get paid unless they didn't turn their paperwork in. Depending on the contract it is 7 to 15 days unless you are on "quick pay" That is instance but you pay for that.
With regards to large companies that ship, some of them do use a carrier exclusively. Panther isn't the only one though. Without going into specifics, you usually can identify the large companies because in Panthers case, they have a on site rep handling the loads. Not really anything new.

ebsprintin · Oct 31, 2014

OntarioVanMan said:
and to go with Hawks opinion...Fedex Freight, I mean LTL....just delivered my transmission from Edmund Ok to Toledo Ohio in less then 48 hrs for a whooping $185......just another nail in our coffin....

And it's the exact same dock that I picked up an engine that they had lost on the dock for thirty days, and when the customer blew their stack, I was the one who could deliver it faster to save Mr. LTL's account.

eb