But I'll not concede that interfering and killing anyone that opposes Western interests is a solution neither .... that would be to assume that ours are better ...
Indeed. One would assume that in a country which espouses the ideals that
All Men Are Created Equal, and have
A Right to Life, Liberty, and The Pursuit of Happiness that these
fundamental truths would inform and guide our foreign policy and affairs with others. Sadly, they don't.
There are assumptions out there that THEY are out to get us....I ask WHY?
While it is certainly true that there are bad guys and bad regimes in the world, and we do have valid national security interests and concerns, it also very true that
most people in the world, by and large, would just prefer to be free, live their lives, try to survive and better themselves .... and just get on with it. For the most part, they could give a flying you-know-what about us -
provided we leave 'em alone.
The reason WHY is that
it's an easy sell to a populace who has been placed into
a state of fear ..... in case anyone has failed to make the observation: people that are in a state of fear, are cowed, and are in
a state of mortal terror .... don't always make the greatest of decisions (the witch trials and burnings of Salem come immediately to mind, as but one example)
It's also a way that
some acquire and hold onto to
POWER ...
Moreover, the reason WHY is, is that to some extent it's true (that THEY are out to get us) - if only from the perspective that we continue to do things that are only in our interests - to the exclusion of all else - and ignore the
legitimate interests of the peoples which such actions on our part affect. This should really come as no surprise to anyone -
even the most dull and slow-witted .....
Our actions in this regard would fairly easy to remedy: just stop doing things that are
inherently criminal and which, ultimately
harm entire populaces .... stuff like supporting and financing repressive regimes and murderous tyrants .....
It ain't rocket-science ......
If I were to know about about US politics and foreign policies I could debate better...
The information is out there, just read and inform yourself - for starters have a look at the following:
Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi
SAVAK (The Shah's Secret Police)
"A U.S. Army colonel working for the CIA was sent to Persia in September 1953 to work with General Teymur Bakhtiar, who was appointed military governor of Tehran in December 1953 and immediately began to assemble the nucleus of a new intelligence organization. The U.S. Army colonel worked closely with Bakhtīār and his subordinates, commanding the new intelligence organization and training its members in basic intelligence techniques, such as surveillance and interrogation methods, the use of intelligence networks, and organizational security." - Encyclopædia Iranica
"In March 1955, the Army colonel was "replaced with a more permanent team of five career CIA officers, including specialists in covert operations, intelligence analysis, and counterintelligence,including Herbert Norman Schwarzkopf" who "trained virtually all of the first generation of SAVAK personnel." (wow ..... guess
who's daddy that was ...... some apples don't fall far from the tree indeed ....)
"In 1960/61 the CIA trainers left and were replaced by a team of instructors from the Israeli Mossad" (this was no doubt a
very bright move strategically - given that we are talking about a Muslim country ...... from the very same retards no doubt, that were pushing the idea of "containment")
"Chief CIA Iran analyst Jesse Leaf in an interview on 6th Jan. 1979 stated that the CIA teaches Nazi torture techniques to SAVAK."
Of course, what sane people could possibly not want the fine methods developed by
the authors of the Holocaust to employed on themselves and their fellow citizens ..... afterall, if it was
good enough for Adolph, then why not for us ?
Mr. Leaf further stated in regards to the torture practiced by the SAVAK:
"Why should we protest? We were on their side, remember?"
Yeah,
why indeed ? ..... I'm quite sure that
many do remember ..... and obviously, many would also prefer to forget (as evidenced by some comments here) .... with good reason of course - when one has blood on their hands as a consequence of the acts done in their name, forgetfulness is, indeed,
bliss ....
"Although the Iranian use of torture was widely known inside the agency, Mr. Leaf said, he knew of no Americans who admitted that they witnessed such treatment. (this is called plausible denability)
"I do remember seeing and being told of people who were there seeing the rooms and being told of torture. And I know that the torture rooms were toured and it was all paid for by the USA."
Undoubtedly Mr. Leaf was a man of
very high moral character ......
"Mr. Leaf said he decided to resign from the CIA after receiving an adverse fitness report in 1973. His basic complaint, he said, was that "policy pretty much determines reporting rather than the other way around."
Well now, that last part is certainly
particularly interesting ..... in light of Dick
"I'm-a-Chickenhawk" Cheney's recent pronouncements and activities over the last 8 or so years ....
"According to Iranian political historian Ervand Abrahamian, after this attack SAVAK interrogators were sent abroad for "scientific training to prevent unwanted deaths from 'brute force.' Brute force was supplemented with the bastinado; sleep deprivation; extensive solitary confinement; glaring searchlights; standing in one place for hours on end; nail extractions; snakes (favored for use with women); electrical shocks with cattle prods, often into the rectum; cigarette burns; sitting on hot grills; acid dripped into nostrils; near-drownings; mock executions; and an electric chair with a large metal mask to muffle screams while amplifying them for the victim." Prisoners were also humiliated by being raped, urinated on, and forced to stand naked.
Hey - what's not to like ?
Iranian Revolution
Ruhollah Khomeini
(There's little doubt that Khomeini ended up being just as bloodthirsty and brutal as what he replaced (if not even more so) - he wasn't a nice guy by any means - but the
relevant point would be that had we not interfered to begin with (with all that resulted from that), he might not have even been motivated to become politically active .... but just another unknown mullah in Qom.)
FWIW, before anyone starts, the Wikipedia cites above are done with the full recognition that not everything on it is always accurate, or is unbiased - indeed that is often not the case.
However, in many instances, sources are cited in the footnotes, and the articles point to other more scholarly works that may (
or may not) be more neutral, less biased, and perhaps more accurate:
Witness: From the Shah to the Secret Arms Deal : An Insider's Account of U.S. Involvement in Iran - by Mansur Rafizadeh (SAVAK's United States director during the 1970s)
Another possibility would several of Ervand Abrahamian's books:
Books By Ervand Abrahamian
After doing a little reading you can then at least to start to draw your own conclusions as to whether it's
all Carter's fault ..... or whether or not all the
shenanigans and criminal activity that we were either directly involved in, or indirectly promoted and allowed might have had some bearing on the position that we find ourselves in and the issues that we face today.
Carter was certainly a goober and a dumb**** ..... but
the cause of all our current problems ? .....
Pluueease .... such an assertion is ludicrous on it's face, and it's hard to construe such an assertion as anything other than merely a
de facto attempt to deny culpability .....
Dunno about you ..... but the idea of having
acid poured down my nostrils or
boiling water poured into my rectum likely wouldn't make me much of a fan of those proposing such treatments for my edification .... nor of
those that had enabled and supported the individuals proposing to do so ......
In fact, it might tend to
pizz me off in the extreme .... to the point that I might be inclined to take up arms and do a little edifying of my own ..... and I'm a fairly easy-going sort of guy
Yeah, yeah ......
it was Carter ...... all Jimmy's fault ..... .... ya literally couldn't make that **** up if you tried ....
