I am ANGRY....and do not know where to direct it.....

OntarioVanMan · Apr 1, 2013

purgoose10 said:
Turtle said:

Yes, I know, and you're right. But there are many people who think Sprinters, all of them, new, old, doesn't matter, are expensive money pits. And that's simply not true. These new model Sprinters, many of them are money pits, and until the particulars get worked out and solved I wouldn't go near one.

It's interesting the use of the term "end of life" when talking about a Sprinter. Not you necessarily, but a lot of people still make the basic mistake of viewing a Sprinter as "just another cargo van, only more expensive." Case in point, Purgoose commented on the fact that OVM spent $12,000 for a new engine for a 10 year old Sprinter. He and a lot of people think that's insane. He even noted that he wouldn't even consider doing that with even a good running 10 year old truck (apparently not even a 10 year old Peterbuilt in excellent condition other than the motor). That's the slop bucket mindset (further reinforced with his comment that people depreciate vehicles over 5 years, as if that is supposed to mean the vehicle should be buried after 5 years because it's not longer viable or worth anything), and it's such an ingrained mindset that they cannot even see the difference between a Sprinter and a Slop Bucket. There is no difference, other than how much the Sprinter costs. It's so deeply ingrained that they can't even see that an 05 Sprinter in 2012 isn't even 10 years old. They think if it's a 2005 and it's one minute past 2010 then it's game over and it might as well be 10 years old.

The fact is, if you keep the vehicle maintained, replace parts as necessary, you can do that for the long term, including replacing transmissions and engines and suspensions and whatever else there is, for a really, really long time, and do it cheaper than getting a new truck every 5 years. Some of those UPS delivery trucks are 20 and 30 years old. They just keep them maintained, and replace whatever needs replacing. If you don't keep the entire vehicle maintained and in good working order, then a $2000 repair might not be worth it, but if it's in good shape, $16,000 to replace virtually everything in front of the firewall, like OVM did, becomes not only worth it, but a smart, cost effective move.
XXXXXX

Here we go. To a Fleet operator the Sprinter is just that, another Van. He puts a driver on it and expects a return on his investment. He spent more money on a Sprinter because he expects more from his higher investment. A lot of drivers don't take care of their vehicles nowadays because "It's not theirs syndrome", or they are inexperienced and don't know how. If a driver such as yourself wants to drive and older well maintained Sprinter than go for it. Most of Landstar is older well maintained vehicles. As far as comparing this with UPS, that's rediculous. Show me another company that does what their doing. I did not mean any offense to you or OVM because of what your doing. As a fleet owner you can't do that because the money's not there to support it with hired drivers. Driving your own truck and maintaining your own truck is far different than owning several trucks with several drivers. As Rocketman stated the 05-06-07 models were top of the line, but they've gone down hill ever since. I think even you stated you wouldn't have a new one.

Click to expand...

I think you are correct in your situation.....one size fits all does not apply....Turtle and I have succeeded but took 2 different ways to get to this point....we both started in a regular cargo van and then the sprinter.... we both have "shhhtick".....LOL....

BTW mine was only 7 yrs old when i did that work...

ntimevan · Apr 1, 2013

When it comes to talk about Sprinters. ....whether you own or drive one ... according to Davekc you are all ...Guilty By Association.......lol..

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mjmsprt40 · Apr 1, 2013

Dragging out the Jaguar bit again: I seem to remember that several years back the Jag wasn't that great a vehicle mechanically. It looked terrific--- if you can't attract women while driving a Jaguar then there's really something wrong with you-- but the engine left much to be desired. I was told by more than one person that the thing to do when you bought a new Jaguar was to take out that 12-cylinder boat anchor and replace it with a Ford or Chevy small-block. If you did this, then you would have an excellent car.

I wonder if the newer Sprinters could benefit from that kind of thing? A little bit of kitbashing, get rid of the parts that don't play nice and replace them with stuff that works, and you have a great van for our business. Well, it's a thought anyway.

Turtle · Apr 2, 2013

Moot said:
You left off two words that followed "strictly straight cost", those being for maintenance.

Well, yeah, I know. I didn't include those two words because I though they were understood, since, you know, "for maintenance" is what we are talking about in the first place. Perhaps instead of saying:

Which is it, "on par" or "strictly straight cost"?

I should have been extremely specific and said:

Which is it, "your maintenance costs are on par" or "strictly straight cost for maintenance"?

But it seemed a little superfluous and redundant since, again, both statements were in the context of maintenance costs.

My exact words were: " But, when it comes down to a strictly straight cost for maintenance and initial cost, the ASB wins."

Yes, I know. Thanks.

I took the two underlined passages as meaning "on par" with a slop bucket. You know; comparable to, similar to, about the same etc.

And that's how I intended them to be understood. Well, the first underlined passage, anyway, where I said, "Yet I've had very few problems, not really any more than any other cargo van..." The problems I've had really and truly are on par with that of any other cargo van, namely, the normal wear and tear parts, the parts that every other vehicle gets routinely replaced, and they get replaced with roughly the same frequency.

The other underlined passage, " the cost hasn't been all that much, either." that's a relative thing, not an absolute thing, since many of the replacement parts for a Sprinter are inherently more expensive than they are on a Slop Bucket. But being able to source parts from some place other-than the dealer reduces that cost tremendously.

OVM is the only Sprinter owner that I have seen post maintenance costs. His maintenance cost per mile is more than twice that of mine.

I don't doubt any of that at all.

The figure of .16/mile fuel cost is total of all fuel put in the tank from the month I bought it, May, 2004 through December, 2012. I calculate the mpg at the pump, fill to fill, pump to an even dollar. I also have a ScanGauge but don't use it for actual fuel mileage. I often forget to reset the gallons after filling.

There is no question in my mind that you know how to properly calculate your fuel costs, and the cost per mile and MPG over long periods of time. But there is also no question that many who post MPG figures and fuel costs per mile have no clue how to do it accurately, or don't put forth the effort to do so.

Again, I give the fuel economy advantage to the 5 cylinder Sprinters. Comparing maintenance costs for my POS American Slop Bucket to OVM's Sprinter, his are more than double. What is your cost per mile for maintenance?

5.12 cents a mile, dating back to the day I bought the van in July 2006, though the Dec 31, 2012.

I haven't ever said, and I don't think anyone else has ever said that the maintenance costs for a Sprinter are the same as that of a Slop Bucket. It's more for a Sprinter, to be sure. The problem with many people is, they see that and say, "I don't want to pay all that in maintenance, so I'll stick with the slop bucket," never realizing that what they're really saying in effect is, "I don't want to pay all that in maintenance, I'd rather pay it in fuel costs instead, because I don't see it and it doesn't hurt as much when I pay it out in fuel."

"On par" is a relative thing, unless you're talking about two scratch golfers, apples to apples. But as on the golf course, either the Sprinter or the Slop Bucket has a handicap. The Slop bucket may shoot a 72 on the Maintenance Course, which is par, and the Sprinter may shoot an 80, but the Sprinter's fuel cost handicap brings it down to just about par. See?

Hightech_Hobo · Apr 2, 2013

My poor thread!! It has turned from a plea for help into a major discussion on the sprinter expeditor solution vs standard van solutions...I suppose this was to be expected....

In an attempt to bring the conversation back to point I offer the following Youtube link...

CDI broken glowplug repair wo/thread repair kit - YouTube

This video made over 5 years ago shows the removal of a broken glow plug and is has excellent quality..

I have finally identified the the plug is in the #6 position...My guy tells me certain cylinders are harder to access than others...anybody know if #6 is in a good or bad position for this process???

mjmsprt40 · Apr 2, 2013

Hightech_Hobo said:
My poor thread!! It has turned from a plea for help into a major discussion on the sprinter expeditor solution vs standard van solutions...I suppose this was to be expected....

In an attempt to bring the conversation back to point I offer the following Youtube link...

CDI broken glowplug repair wo/thread repair kit - YouTube

This video made over 5 years ago shows the removal of a broken glow plug and is has excellent quality..

I have finally identified the the plug is in the #6 position...My guy tells me certain cylinders are harder to access than others...anybody know if #6 is in a good or bad position for this process???

# 6 is in the rear of the engine. Unless the Sprinter has a removable doghouse-- I don't remember the doghouse in my '05 being removable-- it'll be a bear to get to. American slopbuckets have removable doghouses, so, in a case like the Chevy I have now, I would remove the cupholder/glovebox assembly, unstrap the doghouse hold-downs, then pull the doghouse out. The rear of the engine is accessible from inside the van at that point, making the ignition parts easy to get at. If Sprinter does something similar, you're in. Unfasten and remove the doghouse, reach the parts you need to reach from inside the passenger compartment. Otherwise, you're gonna have a hard time.

mjmsprt40 · Apr 2, 2013

No joy here. A search shows that the doghouse in a Sprinter is not removable, which means all service has to be done either from the front of the van or by removing the engine. Why MB did this is anybody's guess, making the doghouse removable would make service to the rear parts of the engine so much easier. I can imagine that reaching glowplugs 5 and 6 would make the Christ swear like a marine. It didn't have to be that way.

Moot · Apr 2, 2013

Turtle said:
Well, yeah, I know. I didn't include those two words because I though they were understood, since, you know, "for maintenance" is what we are talking about in the first place. Perhaps instead of saying:

Which is it, "on par" or "strictly straight cost"?

I should have been extremely specific and said:

Which is it, "your maintenance costs are on par" or "strictly straight cost for maintenance"?

Why did you turn it into an "either/or " question?

Turtle said:
"On par" is a relative thing,

Thank you Mr. Einstein!

I guess using the term "on par" in this thread was a mistake even after explaining my intended meaning in post #97, but I do like your golf analogy between the Sprinter and American Slop Bucket though!

Doggie Daddy · Apr 2, 2013

Hightech_Hobo said:
My poor thread!! It has turned from a plea for help into a major discussion on the sprinter expeditor solution vs standard van solutions...I suppose this was to be expected....

That's how we roll.

LDB · Apr 2, 2013

So bottom line a well maintained "regular" van might cost 4-5 cents per mile in maintenance and a well maintained Sprinter might cost 10-11 cents per mile in maintenance. For those several cents per mile extra the Sprinter can theoretically earn 20-30cpm higher revenue on loaded miles?

westmicher · Apr 2, 2013

mjmsprt40 said:
No joy here. A search shows that the doghouse in a Sprinter is not removable, which means all service has to be done either from the front of the van or by removing the engine. Why MB did this is anybody's guess, making the doghouse removable would make service to the rear parts of the engine so much easier. I can imagine that reaching glowplugs 5 and 6 would make the Christ swear like a marine. It didn't have to be that way.

Obviously you never invested in a good sawzall or plasma cutter!

RLENT · Apr 2, 2013

mjmsprt40 said:
No joy here. A search shows that the doghouse in a Sprinter is not removable, which means all service has to be done either from the front of the van or by removing the engine. Why MB did this is anybody's guess, making the doghouse removable would make service to the rear parts of the engine so much easier. I can imagine that reaching glowplugs 5 and 6 would make the Christ swear like a marine. It didn't have to be that way.

For the most part, it ain't that big a deal in the case of the 5 cylinder in terms of reaching the glowplugs, assuming you're around 6' tall or so ... and the 6 cyl Sprinter is of the V design ... so I'd imagine that no. 6's location is probably even further forward than the 5 cylinder's, relatively speaking.

And the engine compartment in the 2007's and later Sprinters seems far more roomy than the 2006 and earlier models.

As for the virtue of doghouses, I've pulled the cylinder heads on both my 06' Sprinter's 5 cylinder engine and, back in the day, the 6.9L V-8 diesel in my '85 E-350 cube van ...

Beings as the Sprinter head was aluminum and the E-350's was steel ... and a whole lot heavier ... I'll take pulling the Sprinter head from the front any day of the week ...

Trying to pick up a heavy steel head while kneeling on the floor in the cab, with your arms outstretched, from inside a doghouse that you really can't insert your upper body into, is no treat I can assure you ...

Having said that, would it be nicer to have access to the rear of the engine via a dog house ?

Sure ... but it's not a deal breaker IMHO.

sirgregory46 · Apr 2, 2013

I think before I drop a bunch of money. I would try to make a dog house mod. I don't believe it would take a rocket science to make a custom access panel.