20% of gross is within normal? Yikes. I'm sure glad my van is so very sub-normal.
I am ANGRY....and do not know where to direct it.....
- Thread starter Hightech_Hobo
- Start date
20% of gross is within normal? Yikes. I'm sure glad my van is so very sub-normal.
And then those valid concerns become irrational fears because they take their concerns at face value and shut their mind off to any further knowledge by making no attempt to do any research on their concerns regarding the issues, how to deal with them, and how to prevent them. Instead, they spout clichés like, "way to expensive, too many problems, can't get parts, can't find anyone to work on it, yada, yada, yada." Yet I've had very few problems, not really any more than any other cargo van, have never had a problem getting parts, have never been more than a second phone call from finding someone to work on it, and the cost hasn't been all that much, either.
Yet it's those very Sprinters where the phobias about Sprinters originated, and still persist.
OVM is spot-on when it comes to competency testing when it comes to North American ownership of a Sprinter. The problems you read about here are extremely rare in Europe, and they're the same Sprinters. You have to ask yourself why that is. It's not because Europeans are smarter (despite them telling you otherwise), it's because Americans are lazier and refuse to put forth the effort to educate themselves about something different. Americans want things to be what they already expect, even in a European Mercedes vehicle that's not even a little bit American. The statement that typifies and epitomizes that mindset is, "A work truck should NOT require an act of worship as part of the ritual. Sprinter loses here, big time." With "act of worship" being a synonym for learning the particulars of the similarities and differences of how to operate and maintain the "truck." This is the same mindset that thinks, or rather insists, that, "30-weight is 30-weight is 30-weight and 30-weight works best in all engines, except in the winter when you want 10." They want to fill it with fuel, turn the key and go, and anything beyond that is too much of a hassle.
Yes, they are a very different animal with very different problems, yet people who are afraid of them don't even know what those differences are. They just keep spouting the same old clichés, instead.
Just a quick calculation-- your mileage may vary:
Total gross. $50K. 20 percent of that is 10K. That's a LOT, old boy. If you're spending 10K on "any and all maintenance" on a van--- ANY van-- per year then something really went astray. At that price, I can go down to Liberty Auto down the street and replace my van outright every year.
Now, that's at 50K gross earnings. I have no idea what you actually make, for some that might be unimaginably high and for others that could be laughably low, I just put it up there so you could see it and get an idea. Add the cost of fuel, tollway fares, insurance and so on--- how in God's name you stay in business feeding that pig is beyond me.
Total gross. $50K. 20 percent of that is 10K. That's a LOT, old boy. If you're spending 10K on "any and all maintenance" on a van--- ANY van-- per year then something really went astray. At that price, I can go down to Liberty Auto down the street and replace my van outright every year.
Now, that's at 50K gross earnings. I have no idea what you actually make, for some that might be unimaginably high and for others that could be laughably low, I just put it up there so you could see it and get an idea. Add the cost of fuel, tollway fares, insurance and so on--- how in God's name you stay in business feeding that pig is beyond me.
In a year where you replace an engine, yeah, it could be 20 percent. Otherwise, no. Annual routine maintenance on a Sprinter really isn't that much more than any other cargo van, unless you always take it a dealer and pay dealer pricing for parts and liquids.
After all these posts, it seems no one really knows the cost of each over a period of time. We have a Chrysler T&C
so we have no dog in the fight.
I think to compare you need a history or a fleet owner running both to compare. There will always be some differences but it will be back and forth banter until one has those numbers.
There were some good posts from years past that had numbers from both but they would be somewhat dated and lack the current emissions costs.
If a Sprinter is 40 to 50k, costs more to insure and repair, but gets better fuel economy, is it better? Does it generate more loads to offset the costs? I have no idea.
What determines an "American slop bucket" ? I have seen vans well past the 600 to 700k mark.
When looking at class 8 equipment, I can tell you which is better just because I have years of reports that tell me what those numbers are across numerous vehicles.
Just a observation.
so we have no dog in the fight. I think to compare you need a history or a fleet owner running both to compare. There will always be some differences but it will be back and forth banter until one has those numbers.
There were some good posts from years past that had numbers from both but they would be somewhat dated and lack the current emissions costs.
If a Sprinter is 40 to 50k, costs more to insure and repair, but gets better fuel economy, is it better? Does it generate more loads to offset the costs? I have no idea.
What determines an "American slop bucket" ? I have seen vans well past the 600 to 700k mark.
When looking at class 8 equipment, I can tell you which is better just because I have years of reports that tell me what those numbers are across numerous vehicles.
Just a observation.
Owning an '06 for just under a year and 80k miles, I've been very pleased with it. And I'm the furthest from being anal when it comes to maintenance. Oil changes myself at 15-18k using approved synthetic oil (filter change in between), a couple of fuel and air filters done by myself. The only shop work done has been transmission fluid change, belt and idler pulley, and ac condensor after a rock hit. Overall avg of over 25 mpg (last few tanks@ 28 mpg with warmer weather).
The trans is and will be wonky with torque converter shudder but its fine on the highway. That's it. Nothing else. It could grenade itself into a pile of smoking German rubble tomorrow and I'd still feel the same. But I won't go near an '07 or newer.
The trans is and will be wonky with torque converter shudder but its fine on the highway. That's it. Nothing else. It could grenade itself into a pile of smoking German rubble tomorrow and I'd still feel the same. But I won't go near an '07 or newer.
Have the shop dump in a can of BG ATC+ when you have the fluid changed. Most of the time that's enough, but sometimes about midway or a little later between fluid changes the shudder may come back, and if it does add another can. It's what Silverstar recommends, and it's what they use in their fluid. Mopar has a fluid conditioner, which is rebranded BG in a Mopar bottle. But it's cheaper to get a couple of cans of it off eBay for $36 than it is to pay $38 to a dealer for one bottle of the stuff.
BG ATC Plus Automatic Transmission Conditioner 44K 2 | eBay
There's also BG Quick Clean, which I'll dump in the day before the transmission fluid gets changed. Silverstar recommends that, as well.
BG ATC Plus Automatic Transmission Conditioner and Quick Clean Made by BG44K
I agree. I might, might take a 2012 if you gave it to me for free, but even then I'd have to think about it for a while. It's gonna be 2 or 3 years before they get that DPF extravaganza all figured out. They're having problems with that one in Europe, too.
purgoose10
Veteran Expediter
Well OVM I'm not disputting the Jag deal it's just we're Expediting and nothing else. People that buy Sprinters are expecting the Jag level of service for the price their paying but aren't getting it. I seem to remember a short time ago you spent $12k on and new engine for your 10 yr old Sprinter. Your one of the few that would do that. I would never have done that even with a good running truck (any model truck). Most people depreciate vehicles at 5 yrs or less, but that's another issue. The only point I'm trying to make is the rates don't support this type of vehicle and the maintenance issues that come with owning one. Even running team wearing the vehicle out twice as fast and not being able to recoup the initial expense along with upkeep. I know their are Sprinters out there doing well just like other vehicles but it the minority not the majority. The only thing that got the Sprinter where it is the fuel mileage and capacity. Fuel mileage cannot make up the cost of operating such a vehicle. It's been proven time after time mpg doesn't make that much of a difference when comparing apples to oranges. It's the same with a full blown tt unit. Most fleets get rid of trucks between 5-6 hundred K before major issues evolve. Now were looking at a major overall is pushing 25K. When does this stop? It really boils down to company's getting the guts to raise rates. It's a shipper controlled business right now and soon it will change but the company leaders need to come together and change that. Any way on and on and on.
Don't misunderstand my quote about fuel mileage. Mileage means almost everything today, but tie it in with a vehicle that's in the shop most of the time 12-15mpg looks great if you can count on that vehicle getting there w/out and issue.
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purgoose10
Veteran Expediter
I'm sure they would be. OVM is the exception to the rule. Lets consider OVM has been doing this for a lot of years. He Turtle and a few others know the game inside and out so if they were to fail it would take some very deep thought process to come with why, and I don't think Sprinter would be in that consideration. The vast majority out here doing the van thing are say 3 yrs and less. They come and go like running water, but it's no differant than that of the tt owner operator. Everybody sees the dollar a mile and don't see anything else.
As far as being happier, well I know of several people in ST's that would like that. When you think about it, it takes as much to run a Sprinter as a Straight Truck. Maybe not the initial investment but maintenance and break down I think run neck and neck.
When you think about it you can buy used C/Van for say $10k and spend everyother night in a motel and still save money. You can make deals with motel chains and guarantee so many nights a year and get some great rates.
But getting off track.
$1.29 for ALL miles in a van isn't realistic. The rates aren't there to support that over a period of time unless someone is just doing a handful of low mileage runs. Then maybe, but then without some quantity, you have a broke driver. That is where you get a driver running at a great rate, but only does a load or two per week or less.
I got excitable... Sorry guys....closer to $800,000 k over the years...
Actually it was $16,000 to replace everything motor related ahead of the firewall. And viola new van. I had no reservations about doing so..
Actually it was $16,000 to replace everything motor related ahead of the firewall. And viola new van. I had no reservations about doing so..
purgoose10
Veteran Expediter
They don't scare me as much as "Streakers" do.
I do and I have posted here: http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/truck-talk/57733-cargo-van-maintenance-costs.html
purgoose10
Veteran Expediter
Just keeps on tick'n.
I've got 663,000 miles on a $24,000 investment in an American Slop Bucket, but nowhere near a million in revenue.
My per mile maintenance costs are .03/mile. Yours are over twice that at .064/mile. Since new (May 2004) to December 31, 2012 my mpg is 16.6 at a cost per mile of .16. I'm sure your Sprinter has done much better on a mile per gallon basis, but probably not significantly better on price per mile being that the price of diesel in most cases is higher than the price of regular gasoline.
I have nothing against Sprinters. I've been in yours, Turtles and a few others. The headroom, cargo space and mpg are awesome. I just don't believe you or Turtle when you claim your maintenance costs are on par with an American Slop Bucket (ASB) My experience, having owned and maintained 2 ASBs is that what you have stated in this thread and other Sprinter owners aren't as forthcoming with, is that my ASB's purchase price, maintenance costs and down time are significantly less than a Sprinter of your vintage. I will give you the mpg advantage and even concede that your fuel price per gallon could be slightly less.
Yeah, I know your Sprinter is longer and taller, all excellent attributes and makes an apples to apples comparison difficult at the very least. But, when it comes down to a strictly straight cost for maintenance and initial cost, the ASB wins. Again, cost per mile for fuel is close, but I would give the edge to your era Sprinters.
NEWS FLASH: This just in!! MERCEDES BENZ NO LONGER BUILDS NEW 2005-2006 SPRINTER VANS!!
Those vans are 7 years old at least. There may be a few left worth having, but most are at the end of their life cycle. The people who are having problems....SERIOUS PROBLEMS.... are those who have CURRENT production models.
On another note. How many years have Sprinters been available in the US? 10? 12?
How many of those years did they produce a van with relatively low maintenance issues? 3? 4?
That track record SUCKS and it doesn't matter how "special" you feel in a Benz when you can't write the check for the repairs.
Those vans are 7 years old at least. There may be a few left worth having, but most are at the end of their life cycle. The people who are having problems....SERIOUS PROBLEMS.... are those who have CURRENT production models.
On another note. How many years have Sprinters been available in the US? 10? 12?
How many of those years did they produce a van with relatively low maintenance issues? 3? 4?
That track record SUCKS and it doesn't matter how "special" you feel in a Benz when you can't write the check for the repairs.
You have to consider that some companies get good rates for thei cargo vans and sprinters.. This year my rats to the truck including deadhead has been close to 1.27 a mile. Where as, Panther pays what .90 max including FSC. No wonder you would think it might be impossible.
Try this Jan TTT was 11k Feb was slow and March is so so. Loads have been a max of 2.1 per mile law to SLC then drive to Boise to pick up 1.35 going to Cleveland did a sea to high point 1.37 per mile lowest rate this year has been 1.25. Plus none of these loads did I need to huddle to delver them. That's how most agents at LEAM work.
Try this Jan TTT was 11k Feb was slow and March is so so. Loads have been a max of 2.1 per mile law to SLC then drive to Boise to pick up 1.35 going to Cleveland did a sea to high point 1.37 per mile lowest rate this year has been 1.25. Plus none of these loads did I need to huddle to delver them. That's how most agents at LEAM work.