EORB Concerns fromthe FedEx forum

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Seeing this is again posted in the FedEx forum, here is my take -

My comments are in RED and the actual regulations for EOBRs and the interpretations are added at the end of the quote.

Some of my concerns regarding the EOBR.

Privacy of Data---
Who owns the information?
Who should have access to the data?
Who should have first right to correct inaccuracies without penalty?
What are the legal implications of data collected?
How do I get access to the data?
If FedEx keeps the data how long do they keep the data?

All of this should have been discussed by FedEx as part of your new contract. I wouldn't worry about access or length of retainment for tax/labor legal purposes as much as I would worry about inaccuracies or a lack of recourse for the driver to correct mistakes in a company that doesn't seem to have a procedure written for it.

Access? maybe asking for an electronic copy every 6 months or if FedEx was smart they would send you a copy via Email. I honestly don't think they have it together as they should and as Phil has mentions it opens a lot of doors for problems.

If FedEx keeps the data how long do they keep the data?

Read on the bottom section question number 1 of my post to see if this answers the BIG question.

Also as part of the problem with electronic recorders, the question of “who should have access to the data?” also should include “Does the insurance company have access to the data?” and “How does FedEx (or who ever) handle any data mining to see trends in behavior?” - the last one is about getting rid of contracts that are not working for FedEx.



Limitation of Technology---
Is the technological level of the EOBR able to tell exactly when a truck moves, where it moves to, how long it was moving and how fast it moved….EOBRs still have no way to tell what the duty status of a driver is when the truck is not moving.

YES it can and no it can't tell who is driving but it can note the truck is moving - if it is tied into the trucks electronic system By tying into the trucks communications system, then it can easily read the transmission output speed that the speedometer uses. Also it can read the ECM mileage, and even in some cases the trip odometer and tell how much fuel is used.

Does the EOBR sufficiently identify the difference between off-duty and on-duty, not driving unless the driver manually enters the change of duty status?

Can the EOBR measure whether or not a driver is actually in the sleeper berth getting restorative sleep?

Even with the current GPS in use today, there are areas of coverage lapses and interference throughout the United States and Canada that limit the accuracy of identifiable locations and activities. Mountainous areas, large cities with tall buildings and units located behind certain structures confuse the GPS receivers. Transmissions by the driver can be delayed in these locations and submit inaccurate information. An EOBR must be accurate.

True, GPS cases have been thrown out of court, and in the case of the proper technology that should be use, it is why the units are hooked to the truck's communications systems. With that said, the reason you have GPS interconnections are not because the system is using it exclusively as a logging feature (according to Qualcomm) but rather it is part of the package that FedEx (and who ever) has subscribed to. The IRP mileage "estimates" are also derived from the GPS coordinates.

Another concern is regarding the calibration and/or performance standards for the EOBR and for electronic data recorders, and who would ultimately bear this responsibility. Furthermore, in the event that it is determined that the EOBR is not properly calibrated, who is responsible and who is in violation the driver or the carrier?

The Driver bears the ultimate responsibility.

How do you calibrate the unit? I mean it is simple dummy proof install and most if not all of the stuff that the unit needs from set up to the macro screens can be pushed to it when it is activated. It does take time signatures off of the GPS unit, and updated through the communications links. The system as it is supposed to be design has to inform the driver and the company of an issue, sensor failure, tampering, what ever and again it is still the driver's responsibility to ensure that their logs are correct.


EOBRs are integrally synchronized to the CMV, either directly to the engine control module (ECM) or via the vehicle's electronic network (databus). Is FedEx going to guarantee no damage will come to the truck after installation? Who will pay for issues resulting from improper installations? We already had one truck's wiring catch on fire after a Qualcomm was installed at PJ's....

They are not responsible, and neither is Pjs – I think you sign a waiver somewhere along the line saying they are not responsible. I would think that FedEx would make sure that you have the right information to get any qualified Qualcomm service center to install the system, it seems with something like 1100 of them, there shouldn't be a problem.

In addition, how will a driver use their truck as a personal conveyance vehicle and log the time as off-duty. Currently, when not under load many of us use our vehicles for personal activities such as shopping, eating, entertainment etc. Having now sat without a load for over a week, we have traveled to several locations within a 50 mile radius for various reasons….how would this activity be logged? As an independent contractor, and not company employee driving a company owned vehicle, I believe it is within our right to use our truck without FedEx monitoring our movements.

I don't know, I do know that they don't seem to handle things very well and there is still a lot of unanswered questions.

The Actual regulations

§395.15 Automatic on-board recording devices.

(a) Authority to use automatic on-board recording device.

(a)(1) A motor carrier may require a driver to use an automatic on-board recording device to record the driver’s hours of service in lieu of complying with the requirements of §395.8 of this part.

(a)(2) Every driver required by a motor carrier to use an automatic on-board recording device shall use such device to record the driver’s hours of service.

(b) Information requirements.

(b)(1) Automatic on-board recording devices shall produce, upon demand, a driver’s hours of service chart, electronic display, or printout showing the time and sequence of duty status changes including the drivers’ starting time at the beginning of each day.

(b)(2) The device shall provide a means whereby authorized Federal, State, or local officials can immediately check the status of a driver’s hours of service. This information may be used in conjunction with handwritten or printed records of duty status, for the previous 7 days.

(b)(3) Support systems used in conjunction with on-board recorders at a driver’s home terminal or the motor carrier’s principal place of business must be capable of providing authorized Federal, State or local officials with summaries of an individual driver’s hours of service records, including the information specified in §395.8(d) of this part. The support systems must also provide information concerning on-board system sensor failures and identification of edited data. Such support systems should meet the information interchange requirements of the American National Standard Code for Information Interchange (ANSCII) (EIARS-232/CCITT V.24 port (National Bureau of Standards “Code for Information Interchange,” FIPS PUB 1-1)).

(b)(4) The driver shall have in his/her possession records of duty status for the previous 7 consecutive days available for inspection while on duty. These records shall consist of information stored in and retrievable from the automatic on-board recording device, handwritten records, computer generated records, or any combination thereof.

(b)(5) All hard copies of the driver’s record of duty status must be signed by the driver. The driver’s signature certifies that the information contained thereon is true and correct.

(c) The duty status and additional information shall be recorded as follows:

(c)(1) “Off duty” or “OFF”, or by an identifiable code or character;

(c)(2) “Sleeper berth” or “SB” or by an identifiable code or character (only if the sleeper berth is used);

(c)(3) “Driving” or “D”, or by an identifiable code or character; and

(c)(4) “On-duty not driving” or “ON”, or by an identifiable code or character;

(c)(5) Date;

(c)(6) Total miles driving today;

(c)(7) Truck or tractor and trailer number;

(c)(8) Name of carrier;

(c)(9) Main office address;

(c)(10) 24-hour period starting time (e.g., midnight, 9:00 a.m., noon, 3:00 p.m.);

(c)(11) Name of co-driver;

(c)(12) Total hours; and

(c)(13) Shipping document number(s), or name of shipper and commodity.

(d) Location of duty status change.

(d)(1) For each change of duty status (e.g., the place and time of reporting for work, starting to drive, on-duty not driving and where released from work), the name of the city, town, or village, with State abbreviation, shall be recorded.

(d)(2) Motor carriers are permitted to use location codes in lieu of the requirements of paragraph (d)(1) of this section. A list of such codes showing all possible location identifiers shall be carried in the cab of the commercial motor vehicle and available at the motor carrier’s principal place of business. Such lists shall be made available to an enforcement official on request.

(e) Entries made by driver only. If a driver is required to make written entries relating to the driver’s duty status, such entries must be legible and in the driver’s own handwriting.

(f)Reconstruction of records of duty status. Drivers are required to note any failure of automatic on-board recording devices, and to reconstruct the driver’s record of duty status for the current day, and the past 7 days, less any days for which the drivers have records, and to continue to prepare a handwritten record of all subsequent duty status until the device is again operational.

(g) On-board information. Each commercial motor vehicle must have on-board the commercial motor vehicle an information packet containing the following items:

(g)(1) An instruction sheet describing in detail how data may be stored and retrieved from an automatic on-board recording system; and

(g)(2) A supply of blank driver’s records of duty status graph-grids sufficient to record the driver’s duty status and other related information for the duration of the current trip.

(h) Submission of driver’s record of duty status.

(h)(1) The driver shall submit, electronically or by mail, to the employing motor carrier, each record of the driver’s duty status within 13 days following the completion of each record;

(h)(2) The driver shall review and verify that all entries are accurate prior to submission to the employing motor carrier; and

(h)(3) The submission of the record of duty status certifies that all entries made by the driver are true and correct.

(i) Performance of recorders. Motor carriers that use automatic on-board recording devices for recording their drivers’ records of duty status in lieu of the handwritten record shall ensure that:

(i)(1) A certificate is obtained from the manufacturer certifying that the design of the automatic on-board recorder has been sufficiently tested to meet the requirements of this section and under the conditions it will be used;

(i)(2) The automatic on-board recording device permits duty status to be updated only when the commercial motor vehicle is at rest, except when registering the time a commercial motor vehicle crosses a State boundary;

(i)(3) The automatic on-board recording device and associated support systems are, to the maximum extent practicable, tamper-proof and do not permit altering of the information collected concerning the driver’s hours of service;

(i)(4) The automatic on-board recording device warns the driver visually and/or audibly that the device has ceased to function. Devices installed and operational as of October 31, 1988 and authorized to be used in lieu of the handwritten record of duty status by the FMCSA are exempted from this requirement;

(i)(5) Automatic on-board recording devices with electronic displays shall have the capability of displaying the following:

(i)(5)(i) Driver’s total hours of driving today;

(i)(5)(ii) The total hours on duty today;

(i)(5)(iii) Total miles driving today;

(i)(5)(iv) Total hours on duty for the 7 consecutive day period, including today;

(i)(5)(v) Total hours on duty for the prior 8 consecutive day period, including the present day; and

(i)(5)(vi) The sequential changes in duty status and the times the changes occurred for each driver using the device.

(i)(6) The on-board recorder is capable of recording separately each driver’s duty status when there is a multiple-driver operation;

(i)(7) The on-board recording device/system identifies sensor failures and edited data when reproduced in printed form. Devices installed and operational as of October 31, 1988 and authorized to be used in lieu of the handwritten record of duty status by the FMCSA are exempted from this requirement.

(i)(8) The on-board recording device is maintained and recalibrated in accordance with the manufacturer’s specifications;

(i)(9) The motor carrier’s drivers are adequately trained regarding the proper operation of the device; and

(i)(10) The motor carrier must maintain a second copy (back-up copy) of the electronic hours-of-service files, by month, in a different physical location than where the original data is stored.

(j) Rescission of authority.

(j)(1) The FMCSA may, after notice and opportunity to reply, order any motor carrier or driver to comply with the requirements of §395.8 of this part.

(j)(2) The FMCSA may issue such an order if the FMCSA has determined that—

(j)(2)(i) The motor carrier has been issued conditional or unsatisfactory safety rating by the FMCSA;

(j)(2)(ii) The motor carrier has required or permitted a driver to establish, or the driver has established, a pattern of exceeding the hours of service limitations of this part;

(j)(2)(iii) The motor carrier has required or permitted a driver to fail, or the driver has failed, to accurately and completely record the driver’s hours of service as required in this section; or

(j)(2)(iv) The motor carrier or driver has tampered with or otherwise abused the automatic on-board recording device on any commercial motor vehicle.

[53 FR 38670, Sept. 30, 1988, as amended at 60 FR 38748, July 28, 1995; 68 FR 22516, April 28, 2003; 70 FR 50073, Aug. 25, 2005]

The Interpretation

Question 1: Must a motor carrier maintain a second (back-up copy) of the electronic hours-of-service files, by month, in a different physical location than where the original data is stored if the motor carrier retains the original hours-of-service printout signed by the driver and provides the driver with a copy?

Guidance: No. By creating and maintaining the signed original record-of-duty status printed from the electronic hours-of-service file, the motor carrier has converted the electronic document into a paper document subject to §395.8(k). That section requires the motor carrier to retain at its principal place of business the records of duty status and supporting documents for a period of 6 months from date of receipt. If the motor carrier did not generate a paper copy of the electronic document and retain a signed original, it would be required to maintain the electronic file and a second (back-up) copy.

Question 2: May a driver who uses an automatic on-board recording device amend his/her record of duty status during a trip?

Guidance: No. Section 395.15(i)(3) requires automatic onboard recording devices, to the maximum extent possible, be tamperproof and preclude the alteration of information collected concerning a driver’s hours of service. If drivers, who use automatic on-board recording devices, were allowed to amend their record of duty status while in transit, legitimate amendments could not be distinguished from falsifications. Records of duty status maintained and generated by an automatic on-board recording device may only beam ended by a supervisory motor carrier official to accurately reflect the driver’s activity. Such supervisory motor carrier official must include an explanation of the mistake in the remarks section of either the original or amended record of duty status. Both the original and amended record of duty status must be retained by the motor carrier.

*Question 3: May an automatic on-board recording device use an algorithm to identify the location of each change in duty status relative to the nearest city, town, or village?

Response: Yes, provided that the accuracy of the algorithm is sufficient to ensure correlation between the driving time and distance data provided through the on-board recorder’s integral connection to the vehicle’s systems. Furthermore, the description of the location must be of sufficient precision to enable enforcement personnel to quickly determine the geographic location on a standard map or road atlas.

*Editor’s Note: This interpretation was issued after the interpretations were published in the Federal Register in April 1997.
 

lugnut1

Seasoned Expediter
I like it all I see in EOBR’s. DedX will need to raise rates to pay for all the extra thingy’s big brother needs from you. Oh, my mistake, FedX will just charge you just a little extra for install, service etc. Best new job in the trucking industry is EOBR Technicians, starting salary 55,000 + sign on bonus.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
After reading all the panic on their forum, I think in the end they should be happy if it generally mirrors the program Panther has which I believe it does based on the limited information posted. We have used these for several years now, and have had little problems. Same wave of panic happened then and it worked itself out once everyone got the hang of it. Only ones that will be less than thrilled will be the solos. I believe that is the place there will be some time management challenges.
As for their changes in their contract, can't comment on that or fairly compare as Panther has probably a dozen different contracts out there. I would adhere closely to the advise given over there on actually understanding what changes they are making and your exposure to them.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I agree Dave, the panic seems to be on two fronts - how can they do this to me? and "What happened? how do I deal with it?

I do feel the solos are going to be the ones who feel it the most, but again I think FedEx don't like solos as much as teams.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I think some of their questions would be better answered and served by posting them in the general. That way they could have some concerns addressed by other carriers with a similar setup. It seems some of the fears just feed off each other because of the ignorance of a new system.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I think some of their questions would be better answered and served by posting them in the general. That way they could have some concerns addressed by other carriers with a similar setup.

Of course it would be a better place, that's why I created the two threads.

It seems some of the fears just feed off each other because of the ignorance of a new system.

Well ain't that the truth :D
 

iceroadtrucker

Veteran Expediter
Driver
I can see this place hasn't change one bit. Greg once again is at his best and DaveKC is backing him up on ready 5.

Mass confusion is definitely not your speciality Greg nor is it yours DaveKC.

You got to ask your self this question can a Seal Swim?

You guys are like a bunch of ole Ladies at the Coffee Shop.

Now change the subject and have a nice day all.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I can see this place hasn't change one bit. Greg once again is at his best and DaveKC is backing him up on ready 5.

Mass confusion is definitely not your speciality Greg nor is it yours DaveKC.

You got to ask your self this question can a Seal Swim?

You guys are like a bunch of ole Ladies at the Coffee Shop.

Now change the subject and have a nice day all.

Just trying to calm the fears of a new system. I think you are trying to read something into this thread that isn't there.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Just a public service announcement.
Walgeens is now open at most locations 24/7
Discounts on refills as well.
 

iceroadtrucker

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Thanks for the Tip I didn't know Walgreens served ICE-E's

HG LOL

DaveKC your too much fun man Take care

OK Expediters on Line I'm Back Quiet.

Have a safe Ride

IRT
 

mcbride

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
After reading all the panic on their forum, I think in the end they should be happy if it generally mirrors the program Panther has which I believe it does based on the limited information posted. We have used these for several years now, and have had little problems. Same wave of panic happened then and it worked itself out once everyone got the hang of it. Only ones that will be less than thrilled will be the solos. I believe that is the place there will be some time management challenges.
As for their changes in their contract, can't comment on that or fairly compare as Panther has probably a dozen different contracts out there. I would adhere closely to the advise given over there on actually understanding what changes they are making and your exposure to them.

Sigh….I should have known better than to post here again…it is same ole, same ole…

Dave, I did not realize that you were out here driving again? As I stated in another post in the FedEx forum, (where I was told FedEx related posts were to be placed), we know several couples who USED to be leased with Panther and did not like the idea of losing their position on a board when moving 4 parking places in a truck stop. A truck stop, I might add, that they felt they were forced to sit in, designated by Panther via some “order” they circulated to them. The funny thing about their truck stop designations was that most were Flying J’s, a truck stop that did not take Comdata which is what Panther uses… Anyway, the fear of loosing a board position or starting their 14 hour clock for washing their truck at the neighboring truck stop or making a Wal-Mart run for supplies was in their opinion micro managing their businesses. It is ironic that most of those couples now drive for FedEx and to them it is déjà vu all over again.

As I also stated in my other post, we enjoy the travel and being tourists, otherwise we would not be out here. If we wanted to sit at truck stops or terminals we would have drove a company “big truck” and been an employee of said company.

I think that my concerns on who has access to data about my business and my truck are not “panicking”. I also think that if I want to go sight-seeing or shopping it is none of FedEx’s business. If you do, that is your opinion, so be it.

We run legal and have no qualms about logging on the EOBR; however, I want access and hard copies of the logs. Where I find the EOBR invasive is the use of the OTHER data that it collects. What, if anything, is done with that? I am sure the insurance industry will be interested as well as groups like “Mother’s Against Everything”.

I am also not thrilled that an electronic device is going to be attached to the ECM of our truck. Past experience with the company they have installing these Qualcomms has resulted in our first truck’s wiring catching on fire….not to mention, no one has assured anyone that these devices do not damage the truck. AND before you claim otherwise, you may want to check with a couple of former Panther truck owners that have had issues with their ignition after leaving Panther…one truck that I know of in particular had 2 weeks of problems while trying to install a “panic button” for FedEx. It was determined that their former install of the EOBR had either not been done correctly or had corrupted their ECM’s software.

BTW, Greg, the EOBR is a calibrated device. Currently the FMCSA is determining who will do this. My bet is the manufacturers will be designated as the people who will be doing this…another example of the government letting “the fox watch the chicken coup.”
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I don't believe whether I am driving or not is a prerequisite to evaluate the performance of the ones in our fleet. I know how to use them and get feedback on a daily basis across all of our trucks. With regards to Panther board positions, you are correct in that they are a mess. No real value and board position didn't matter before them, and it doesn't now.
Never a problem with installs, and we have done quite a few. Only replacements were ones struck by lightning and burnt up.
No damage to truck, and yes, Panther paid for the replacements at outside vendors.
As far as moving around, could cause issues for solos, but for teams, no real issue except 34 hour restarts because we are running out of hours. You can use your personal conveyance for most other things
I don't have a dog in the hunt, but I don't see it being that bad if they address how the information is stored and or distributed.
We had some of the same apprehensions when Panther switched.
It worked out to be a pretty decent thing verses the alternative. I am only focusing on teams with that last thought.
 

pelicn

Veteran Expediter
McBride,
We are currently a Panther team that uses the electronic logging. As long as you are not attached to a Pro then you can log 30 minutes of "off duty driving". That enables a driver to go to Walmart etc. On the actual log it will show a driver off duty. If you are attached to a pro then you are unable to do this.
As far as losing board position for moving around in a truck stop, or being told to sit in a particular truck stop, that's false. We've never been told where to sit, or lost position for moving to a different truck stop. The only time that might even be an issue is if you move into a different board designation.
 

mcbride

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
If you were offended by any post in this thread, I would suggest that you look inward, the problem rests within.

Offended? Ah, you must be the prophet...LOL I will be sure to look within....LOL.

LOL Actually, truth be told, I am kinda sad...this site used to be the first place I, and many others, came to for actual advice and meaningful conversation or debate. I really miss coming to this site. So, every once and awhile I drop back to see if the clique is still running the show...

Kinda sad, I think, when a person who posts something that doesn't follow in lock step with a few select members...they are ridiculed, called igorant, and panicky.

I posted my concerns with a new procedure/device being implemented by FedEx in the FedEx--Carrier section of this forum. My assumption in doing so was to get some feed back from other FedEx people on what they understood and knew factually about EOBR devices being installed in our trucks. My post was then hijacked and placed in the General Section.

As I said before....same ole, same ole.
 
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