Egypt and Barry

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
Well Turtle,,did u ever wear the American military uniform, and u might consider giving that speech at Ft. Campbell, Ft.Bliss, to the Marines in a fire fight in Afghanistan, and Iran at one of our outpost too, its a thought. I served in the Asian war, wasn't my favorite war, but i wore the uniform proudly, and I would go to this one too , I volunteered for the last one.

So for all those who are in the war, who died for u and ur freedom of speech one way or the other, God bless America.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Yes

Probably doesn't sound right, but it's true, nonetheless.

The whole "support the soldiers even if you don't support the war," thing is a straight-up feel-good absurdity. It's like saying, "I support what you're doing, even though I don't support what you're doing." America has a national guilt over the way we treated returning soldiers from Vietnam, and have since swung the pendulum back too far in the other direction to the point where we're fawning over returning soldiers, as if they are, each and every one of them, returning from another successful D-Day invasion.



Turtle, I happen to agree with much of this. I, as were many, Viet Nam era vets were treated like garbage. Still are for the most part.

NOW, there are people running around saying "thank you for your service" at the drop of a hat.

This country SHOULD feel guilty over the way we treated those who did NOT run like cowards when called to serve. Like those cowards that RAN to Canada like "wimp dogs" with their tails tucked between their legs.

Many of us were passed over for jobs because we served.
Were SPIT on in airports. Called names. For NO other reason than that we DID WHAT WE WERE ASKED (commanded) to do.

Having said that, I have GREAT respect for TRUE objectors. Those who stood their ground like MEN (no women were involved) and took what was ever coming to them rather than running. Men who had the courage of their convictions.

(no women were involved because NO women are DRAFTED or have to REGISTER for the draft)
 

scottm4211

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Thank you. I promise you that there will be some that ridicule what I said. Always happens. I guess I should not be so bitter about it sometimes. but, it is what it is.

You went through it. I'm from the outside (Canada) looking in. But I do agree that if you're opposed to something, running away is pretty cowardly.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I seem to think that Canada, a country I admire, helped those runaway hence having some culpability in at least part of the problem we had with those coming home.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I seem to think that Canada, a country I admire, helped those runaway hence having some culpability in at least part of the problem we had with those coming home.

Not everyone in Canada was willing to accept the cowards that ran from here during the Cold War. It was the Canadian government. Governments do not always represent all of the people of a nation. Just like our government does not represent everyone here. Like those who have honor, integrity or honesty.
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
Turtle, I happen to agree with much of this. I, as were many, Viet Nam era vets were treated like garbage. Still are for the most part.

NOW, there are people running around saying "thank you for your service" at the drop of a hat.

This country SHOULD feel guilty over the way we treated those who did NOT run like cowards when called to serve. Like those cowards that RAN to Canada like "wimp dogs" with their tails tucked between their legs.

Many of us were passed over for jobs because we served.
Were SPIT on in airports. Called names. For NO other reason than that we DID WHAT WE WERE ASKED (commanded) to do.

Having said that, I have GREAT respect for TRUE objectors. Those who stood their ground like MEN (no women were involved) and took what was ever coming to them rather than running. Men who had the courage of their convictions.

(no women were involved because NO women are DRAFTED or have to REGISTER for the draft)

If to many are true objectors whatever that is by definition,,so which country would u like to be overrun by if no one takes a stand for America,,having respect for an objector is BS like we should give them respect for be cowards?
 
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scottm4211

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
If to many are true objectors whatever that is by definition,,so which country would u like to be overrun by if no one takes a stand for America,,having respect for an objector is BS like we should give them respect for be cowards?

How is being an objector being a coward?
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
If to many are true objectors whatever that is by definition,,so which country would u like to be overrun by if no one takes a stand for America,,having respect for an objector is BS like we should give them respect for be cowards?


Part of living in a free county is leaving room for those who object to this or that. There has not been a period in our history when there was a large percentage of fighting age men who objected to serving.

It takes courage to stand up for ones beliefs. When one has the courage of ones convictions and is willing to go through the legal process I have no problem. I have problems with those who ran away like cowards.

Part of what we have been fighting for all these years was the right to object. We might not always agree with those who do, but they don't always agree with us. That is freedom.
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
Part of living in a free county is leaving room for those who object to this or that. There has not been a period in our history when there was a large percentage of fighting age men who objected to serving.

It takes courage to stand up for ones beliefs. When one has the courage of ones convictions and is willing to go through the legal process I have no problem. I have problems with those who ran away like cowards.

Part of what we have been fighting for all these years was the right to object. We might not always agree with those who do, but they don't always agree with us. That is freedom.

ok,,I can swallow that.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Well Turtle,,did u ever wear the American military uniform, and u might consider giving that speech at Ft. Campbell, Ft.Bliss, to the Marines in a fire fight in Afghanistan, and Iran at one of our outpost too, its a thought. I served in the Asian war, wasn't my favorite war, but i wore the uniform proudly, and I would go to this one too , I volunteered for the last one.

So for all those who are in the war, who died for u and ur freedom of speech one way or the other, God bless America.
Do you really want to talk about whether or not I wore a uniform, or do you want to discuss the issues at hand? Because, I gotta tell ya, I cannot fathom how whether or not I wore a uniform has any bearing whatsoever on how we as a nation treat our returning soldiers, now or in the past.
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
Do you really want to talk about whether or not I wore a uniform, or do you want to discuss the issues at hand? Because, I gotta tell ya, I cannot fathom how whether or not I wore a uniform has any bearing whatsoever on how we as a nation treat our returning soldiers, now or in the past.

Hey,,Turtle,,I like what Layout said in his last post,,I ve moved on,,my Post wasnt going anywhere,,there were not that many responses for some reason, dont know why, doesnt matter now, our opinons can run from exit to exit,,my ideas and ur ideas will always be different,,,Layout said it best...:D
 

golfournut

Veteran Expediter
Less than 1% of the population are or have served in the last decade. Yet we have to have non governmental agencies to act as a watch dog over our gov. To ensure the returning Vets, especially the severely wounded get the proper treatment they deserve.

Being a vet, the "contract" I signed when I enlisted, not drafted, entitled me to VA benefits for life. That contract was broken by the gov. for sometime and has just recently been reinstated in the last couple of years.

I say this because today the contract is different. VA benefits are only extended to 10 years beyond discharge date unless there is a wartime disability involved.

Last week on Oprah, told you I'm bored, the 1st lady, Bob Windward and Tom Brokaw were all on. Each presented a family of either a injured vet or one that lost his life and one that was about to go on deployment again for the 4th time.

They went on to discuss the impact that these circumstances have on the families and the vet and the lack of services available to help these and all families of all vets.

Unemployment and homelessness of returning vets is the highest of any sector or our society. Shameless.

We all have our reasons why we served. I don't believe any of us ever felt we were entitled, or that society or the gov. owed us anything. And as is now, we never asked for anything.

When I filled out an employment or loan app and came to the question "military status" I was proud to answer it in the affirmative.

Today however, that answer is being used against our returning vets because they are being labeled as "unstable". Meaning they have a "gypsy" type mentality. Therefore aren't a good candidate for long term employment. The sad part is, no one knows how or why this type of labeling got started.

In reality, a vet is the ultimate volunteer of our society. They do so unselfishly with the full knowledge that they may pay the price with their life.

The opening question of the show was " How many of us know of a vet or family of a vet that is now currently serving"?
I am ashamed to say, I didn't know any. At the time.

The purpose of the show was to make us all aware of these problems and to get us off of our butts to go out and volunteer to help these families. Whether it is a ride to the local VA hospital or babysitting for a parent whose spouse is deployed to give them a break or just a knock on a door to say thank you. There is something we all can do to help. Nothing is too small.

It is one thing to wave the flag, but to serve the flag and to serve those that preserve what we have, that is our duty as a citizen as a society and as a government.

The 1st Lady and 2nd Lady are kicking off new programs that is available to ALL of us to get involved. A homeless or unemployed vet is shameless. We can do better. We have to.

What ever happened to the slogan "Your best bet, hire a vet"? I haven't heard it in a long long time.

What I have done.... since I am being treated for my broke leg at the VA , I go every 2 weeks for an appointment. My wife has to drive me since I am in a cast and on crutches. We arrive about an hour or two before my appointment. When we arrive, we split up and go and mingle with the other vets. We shake their hands and thank them. We sit with them, we talk with them.
Amazing are the stories and lives of these forgotten souls.

I ask all of you to search the web for these programs. To find out what is going on, what is needed and see where you can fit in. Nothing that you can do is too small. It would be huge and have an impact. For both of you. It did me.

Thanks for listening.
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
Camels in the streets of Cairo. Pro-government thugs on camels and horses are clashing with protesters. Sticks, stones, machetes, Molotov ****tails, water cannons, fires.... the government beatdown has begun.
 
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