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muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Make up your mind ...



Oh sure ... that's your opinion now ... but what if we check back in ten minutes from now ?

(more precisely: it was your opinion from 55 minutes ago)

:tearsofjoy:



So what ?

:tearsofjoy:
So you would agree the officers thwarted and defeated him from honking his horn correct?
D5B9FC2A-D289-429D-AFD1-B32276A87137.jpeg
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
So you would agree the officers thwarted and defeated him from honking his horn correct?

Here's something I think we can both agree on:

I would agree that the officers took him into custody, possibly for violating an injunction, and/or failure to provide ID, and/or for creating a public disturbance.

Would you agree with that ?
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
So you would agree the officers thwarted and defeated him from honking his horn correct?
When the officers took the man into custody, they thwarted and defeated him for doing pretty much everything. AT that point it was no longer about horn honking. The arrest was made for "Failure to ID" as the officer clearly said on the tape.
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
When the officers took the man into custody, they thwarted and defeated him for doing pretty much everything. AT that point it was no longer about horn honking. The arrest was made for "Failure to ID" as the officer clearly said on the tape.
So they said "show me your papers" and the 78 year-old 5' tall menace to Canadian society was wrestled to the ground, cuffed, and taken into custody. Fortunately, he didn't spit on the sidewalk.
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
When the officers took the man into custody, they thwarted and defeated him for doing pretty much everything. AT that point it was no longer about horn honking. The arrest was made for "Failure to ID" as the officer clearly said on the tape.
True, just pointing out he was thwarted and defeated. (Beaten)
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
#morecodespeek
Dude, I actually agreed with you earlier, but you still belabored the point about changing the subject, which I think is funny. (Actually agreeing with you and still not accepting that. Lol.) So I took another look at the definition. And now it fits.
 
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muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
At this point, the Pandemic is on the precipice of being over. Omicron will be the vehicle that will make the virus to start burning out. Just let Truckers be and nix the mandates. A large majority are either vaccinated already or have immunity.
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
That does not surprise me. You commonly change the subject and twist the meanings of words (equivocation).
But I didn’t change the subject if you were paying attention. Do try to keep up and less dumbbells.
 
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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
So they said "show me your papers" and the 78 year-old 5' tall menace to Canadian society was wrestled to the ground, cuffed, and taken into custody. Fortunately, he didn't spit on the sidewalk.
I suppose each of us will view this video as we're predisposed to view it. In this case, it's not he-said/she-said, it's each of us saying, "I see it as ...."

"Show me your papers implies a gestapo state but in America, which is not a gestapo state, we've been required to show others our papers for our entire lives. This includes everything from our birth certificates, to our driver's licenses, to our vaccination history (to enroll in school), to our tax returns (to apply for a loan), to, the hazmat papers we're required to carry in our door pocket, and our passports or other proof of citizenship (to register to vote). Indeed, one very loud and common cry from the conservative right these days is for everyone to show papers to verify citizenship and voting eligibility.

It is common for a police officer to ask someone for their ID. It seems in Canada, it is a chargeable offense to not provide ID when so asked. That's something quite different than a gestapo officer saying "show me your papers."

I don't know if you intended the gestapo implication. Kindly let me know if I am mistaken. But that's the implication I heard in your words.

Back to the video, it seemed to me the man was resisting arrest, at least briefly. You can see this as he tried to pull away from the officer's grip. While doing so, he lost his balance and dropped to one knee and one hand to steady himself. In my view, he was not wrestled to the ground. Indeed, the instant the man went to one hand and one knee, the officer pulled him up.
 
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Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I suppose each of us will view this video as we're predisposed to view it. In this case, it's not he-said/she-said, it's each of us saying, "I see it as ...."

"Show me your papers implies a gestapo state but in America, which is not a gestapo state, we've been required to show others our papers for our entire lives. This includes everything from our birth certificates, to our driver's licenses, to our vaccination history (to enroll in school), to our tax returns (to apply for a loan), to, the hazmat papers we're required to carry in our door pocket, and our passports or other proof of citizenship (to register to vote). Indeed, one very loud and common cry from the conservative right these days is for everyone to show papers to verify citizenship and voting eligibility.
Irrelevant. This happened in Canada - not America.
It is common for a police officer to ask someone for their ID. It seems in Canada, it is a chargeable offense to not provide ID when so asked. That's something quite different than a gestapo officer saying "show me your papers."
Not necessarily. This seems to be a gray area in Canada, as stated in the body of the article.
I don't know if you intended the gestapo implication. Kindly let me know if I am mistaken. But that's the implication I heard in your words.
You can interpret it any way you like. Compare it to the tactics of the gestapo, Stalin's NKVD or Mao's Red Guard - all exaggerations of course. In reality it was police brutality, totally unnecessary. According to news updates from Canada the old guy was given a $118 ticket for violating the temporary "honking" restriction (NOT failure to ID), which could have been easily carried out without the physical manhandling and handcuffs since he was not a threat to the cops 1/3 his age and twice his size.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Not necessarily. This seems to be a gray area in Canada, as stated in the body of the article.

No, it doesn't.

Particularly in this situation.

The article you linked is pretty clear.

From the article:

What you must do​

Whether you have to show the police your ID or answer any questions depends on the situation.

In most cases, if the police stop you on the street, you do not have to show the police your ID or answer any questions.

If the police stop you while you are driving or cycling, you do have to show the police your ID or tell them who you are when asked. This is required by the Highway Traffic Act and municipal bylaws.

The guy was driving a motor vehicle and was stopped, so he needed to comply.

No gray area.

You can interpret it any way you like. Compare it to the tactics of the gestapo, Stalin's NKVD or Mao's Red Guard - all exaggerations of course.

Yeah ... pretty much a completely unhinged exaggeration.

You know, there are some folks who have actually lost family members to either Gestapo. Stalin's NKVD, or Mao's Red Guard that might find such trivializations - in service to scoring what one thinks are "political points" - rather offensive in the extreme.

Might even be some of those folks hanging around here.

In reality it was police brutality, totally unnecessary.

Totally incorrect - the driver refused to comply with the officer's orders to provide ID which he was legally required to do.

Then the driver escalated further by attempting to flee ... and finally resisting when he was told he was being placed under arrest.

All the while failing to COMPLY with a lawful order from an duly sworn officer of the law.

Interestingly enough, the video embedded in the Daily Wire article you posted is missing key context of what happened leading up to the altercation. I suspect that is entirely purposeful ... because the video in the article is designed to inflame passions and stoke outrage.

It is misleading. And I'd have to say that's intentional ... because the Daily Wire could have found the more complete video as easily as I did (second time around it took me all of about a minute)

I'm not sure whether the original video I saw - which was more complete - was linked on the Daily Wire website or I found it independently of that.

Could be that the Daily Wire (or the individual that Tweeted it) took down the Tweet containing the video I saw and replaced it with a more edited version which left out key context ... but I can't honestly accuse them of that because I'm not certain.

What I can say is that the video on the Tweet that's embedded in the Daily Wire's article is extremely misleading ... because it leaves out what happened before Gramps was manhandled (that he failed to comply, attempted to flee, and resisted ... and then was subsequently was arrested)

The full video I watched is still out there though, and here it is - just be forewarned that it contains extreme language which some folks might find offensive (not on the part of law enforcement though) - so don't click the link if you're easily offended:

Ottawa Freedom Convoy: elderly man arrested for honking his horn in support.

The video certainly gives some real insight into the nature of the folks engaged in these kind of stunts.

I seem to recall someone once - a long time ago - describing these sort of folks as misfits and malcontents.

I should also note that the written narrative in the Daily Wire's article is also misleading - because it leaves out key context of what happened prior to the altercation.

According to news updates from Canada the old guy was given a $118 ticket for violating the temporary "honking" restriction (NOT failure to ID), which could have been easily carried out without the physical manhandling and handcuffs since he was not a threat to the cops 1/3 his age and twice his size.

Sounds like you're basically lobbying that he should have additional charges then ?

Some additional charges certainly work from where I'm sitting.

:tearsofjoy:

Thanks for clearing that up !

:clapping-happy:
 
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