Back to Iraq?

[layoutshooter]

When was the last time a bonafide standing army declared war against the United States directly? It is an irrational act.

Any US president who refused to defend the US homeland would be removed from office in short order.

We fought the Soviets in Korea, Vietnam, The PI, central and south America. They have a big presence in Mexico. This president, and much of this congress, would not lift a finger to defend the United States. They don't have to "declare war". We are doing NOTHING to defend our borders. They could walk in and we would not know it.

 

[iceroadtrucker]

Gen Schwarzkopf and his army's fought Desert Storm to win. Had Bush the 1st listened and allowed Stormin Norman (sorry Mr Cash, i had to use it) to go into Bagdad and take out Saddam, we wouldn't have this problem today.

Oh really that what u think, if the lady that was over there with Saddam would have got on the bat phone then and did her da burn job and told bush SR that Saddam was going into go into Kuwait for catching them rag heads drilling into his wells well we wouldn't have had Desert Shield or Desert Storm. There are those that are so blind and think Saddam wanted some beach front property for his Presidential yacht That not so nor did he want the worthless money. But he was very mad that he caught the thieves drilling into his wells and that is the reason Saddam went into Kuwait. You can believe all that false BS you want. But that is the real reason. Trucking business or the Ambassador Business the Suites have a way of Making one big Mess. So da burn Smart and only see $$$ that they are blind and Stupid at the same time. You must Remember under Carter he came to Power, but Under Regan heck Reagan stabilized and supported his base. That being said We should have never meddled in it but then again a phone call to bush from the lady may have prevented the whole mess. As Bush Sr would have had to make that call to tell Saddam not to do it. But sadly we did. Get what we deserve he kept the whole mess at bay now he is gone and what do you got a Da Burn Mess. Leave it alone and them, sort it out for them selves. Far as stormin Norman goes. why don't you go back Father Patton and Macarthur wanted to push all the way to Russia That I agree we should have. Then went and Spanked China as well. But that didn't happen. Back to Iraq cant change a 1000 years of BS and for just a few we had a Tyrant that kept the BS at Bay but the Suites Sure shot that all the Heck didn't they. Collage boys and Girls got to Love them. But then again look at the Business here the rich pay 1% I pay 28 to 30% in taxes. Its all about the money. Same with that War. $$$$ nothing more nothing less.

 

[layoutshooter]

Saddam was in power, officially, one year BEFORE Reagan was elected. He was de facto ruler long before that. Saddam became president of Iraq on July 16th, 1979. Carter was in power then. Reagan was not yet nominated.

 

[iceroadtrucker]

It was a mess then and a mess now. should have left well enough alone.

 

[layoutshooter]

That is true Carter

Yep, Carter was president when he assumed power. Saddam started his rise to power in the early '70's.

 

[davekc]

Made a mistake going in, then made a mistake pulling out too soon, and you can bet we are going to be in there now for quite some time. I don't see anything that says otherwise.

 

[layoutshooter]

That is what happens when you don't play to win. It cannot be won from the air alone, nor will it be won by staying in Iraq. No point in putting troops back in if you are not going to fight it all out.

 

[davekc]

I think at this point they are hoping if they arm the Kurds, they can get away with just doing airstrikes.

 

[layoutshooter]

I think at this point they are hoping if they arm the Kurds, they can get away with just doing airstrikes.

Not the kind of air strikes we are doing. Turkey will become a problem if we arm the Kurds.

IF we don't fight it, no holds barred, it's a waste of lives.

All the way, or no way.

 

[davekc]

One thing that would help if I think it is if Lebanon and Jordon also get involved. They have some pretty serious issues with the ISIS group as well. Heard today ISIS did have some problems with the Kurds ambushing them.
On a side note, I think it is hilarious that Hillary is throwing Obama under the bus.

 

[layoutshooter]

One thing that would help if I think it is if Lebanon and Jordon also get involved. They have some pretty serious issues with the ISIS group as well. Heard today ISIS did have some problems with the Kurds ambushing them.

Europe needs to come in, in force. Jordon could, Lebanon is a mess. Kurds are good. They have to watch their back with Turkey

 

[Turtle]

Made a mistake going in, then made a mistake pulling out too soon, and you can bet we are going to be in there now for quite some time. I don't see anything that says otherwise.

"The great rule of conduct for us, in regard to foreign nations, is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible."
President George Washington, September 19, 1796.

"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none."
President Thomas Jefferson, March 4, 1801

"The citizens of the United States cherish sentiments the most friendly in favor of the liberty and happiness of their fellow men on that side of the Atlantic. In the wars of the European powers, in matters relating to themselves, we have never taken part, nor does it comport with our policy, so to do. It is only when our rights are invaded, or seriously menaced that we resent injuries, or make preparations for our defense."
President James Monroe, December 2, 1823.


"Around the world, the United States is leading once more. From Europe to Asia, our alliances are stronger than ever. Our ties with the Americas are deeper. We’re setting the agenda in the region that will shape our long-term security and prosperity like no other."
President Barack Obama, May 23, 2012.


"Domestic policy can only defeat us; foreign policy can kill us."
President John F Kennedy, February 3, 1961

 

[xiggi]

Genocide cannot be tolerated! If we do not stand up who will? Yes it gets old, it gets tired and a majority of Americans feel safe in their home until someone like isis ends up in their city so they will be against it. Genocide cannot be allowed to happen!

Sent from my Fisher Price - ABC123

 

[layoutshooter]

Genocide cannot be tolerated! If we do not stand up who will? Yes it gets old, it gets tired and a majority of Americans feel safe in their home until someone like isis ends up in their city so they will be against it. Genocide cannot be allowed to happen!

Sent from my Fisher Price - ABC123

What do you think it will take to stop it? Genocide in Iraq or anywhere? What happens when a power like China or Russia takes it up? Both have histories of murdering 10's of millions, what then?

Yes, ISIS, or something like it, WILL end up in the US someday. It would be easy since we don't even control our own borders. The entire world knows that we don't control them.

 

[xiggi]

Right now it's in Iraq and it must be stopped.

Sent from my Fisher Price - ABC123

 

[layoutshooter]

Right now it's in Iraq and it must be stopped.

Sent from my Fisher Price - ABC123

And how would you suggest we stop it? Do you REALLY believe we can drop a couple of bombs, launch a few missiles and it will stop? How far are you willing to go to stop it.

This is not meant to be argumentative, it is meant to invoke thought. It is NOT as easy as it may seem. It is a very complicated issue that involves many many facets, none of which are easily dealt with.

 

[xiggi]

What difference does it make how I think we stop it. It has no bearing on how they choose to do so.

Sent from my Fisher Price - ABC123

 

[layoutshooter]

What difference does it make how I think we stop it. It has no bearing on how they choose to do so.

Sent from my Fisher Price - ABC123

WE vote on those who make those decisions. WE are responsible for their actions, or lack of actions. WE, as a Nation, do not pay attention to what is going on. WE, as a Nation, have little clue what is going on in the world and, for the most part, don't wish to know.

WE, as a Nation, don't want the US to be the world's policeman, until we want the US to be the world's policeman.

Everyone should be thinking about what they REALLY want in Iraq right now. Are we willing to accept what "stopping genocide" might entail? How many lives are you willing to sacrifice? How many civilian deaths? Are you willing to accept the idea that ANY further action MIGHT lead to a broader action? Are you willing to take on a more organized foe, say Iran for an example?

We get into these "messes" because when we vote, we don't thing of who we are voting for and what they may be facing.

We "must stop genocide" is an emotional response, for good reason, but acting on only emotion, without understanding the broader implications is dangerous.

The idea that the United States should confront "genocide", whenever and where ever it happens is naive. We cannot.

Should we this time? I don't really know. I don't believe we have the forces, the money or the political will to do what it would take to end this problem and I can only see more wasted American lives for no good end.

 

[xiggi]

No its a moral response.

Sent from my Fisher Price - ABC123

 

[layoutshooter]

No its a moral response.

Sent from my Fisher Price - ABC123

That is no answer. That is the answer that has gotten us into many OTHER problems. Remember "Blackhawk Down"?

How many deaths are enough to stop this on our side? On theirs? How do you intend to "care" for all the young service people who's lives are altered for good? We don't do it now, how "moral" is that?

It is multi-faceted and no one wants to even start to think it through.

IF you REALLY want to end this you have to be in for the very long haul. Decades, since the enemy involved has NO timeline for victory. They don't care if they reach their goal in 50 days or 50 years. They know they can wait us out because they KNOW that we will never finish the job.

IF you REALLY want to end this you have to be prepared to march into Damascus and Tehran to dictate surrender terms. If you are not prepared to wage an all out war, and I doubt that most are, don't bother, because nothing else will work.