Back to Iraq?

aristotle · Aug 10, 2014

A female member of the Iraqi parliament made an emotional plea for help as her ethnic minority, the Yazidis, were fleeing to the Sinjar Mountains as ISIS threatened genocide. This woman's cry for help is credited with prompting the US military response to beat back ISIS by airstrikes.

Yazidi Member of Iraqi Parliament collapses in tears after calling upon World to Rescue the Yazidis - YouTube

iceroadtrucker · Aug 10, 2014

Those people been at each others throats since Bib Times we not going to change nothing. Waste of time waste of money.

skyraider · Aug 10, 2014

iceroadtrucker said:
Those people been at each others throats since Bib Times we not going to change nothing. Waste of time waste of money.

I think you are right. If you look up Ninevah of Bible times, you will see how many times that Mosul which is across the river has been overrun ........ You would think that the people would step up to the plate to fight for their own freedom, but obviously they are not united---- a big difference in the way we think.

OntarioVanMan · Aug 10, 2014

yep and WE helped make it worse by taking out the balance of power......WTG .....USA....
We could have dealt with 1 dictator...now we have 20 little ones running around instead....gee whiz

layoutshooter · Aug 10, 2014

OntarioVanMan said:
yep and WE helped make it worse by taking out the balance of power......WTG .....USA....
We could have dealt with 1 dictator...now we have 20 little ones running around instead....gee whiz

It goes back MUCH further than that. The REAL "Modern" problem was caused by England in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

It really does not matter, nothing we can do to fix it now. It is going to get FAR worse before it gets better.

OntarioVanMan · Aug 10, 2014

layoutshooter said:
It goes back MUCH further than that. The REAL "Modern" problem was caused by England in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

It really does not matter, nothing we can do to fix it now. It is going to get FAR worse before it gets better.

Yes when Britain took over Kuwait....and then they left and Saddam wanted it back....and the WE stepped in...

IMO we should just be observers and not meddle...even tho i think the Russian will...

layoutshooter · Aug 10, 2014

OntarioVanMan said:
Yes when Britain took over Kuwait....and then they left and Saddam wanted it back....and the WE stepped in...

IMO we should just be observers and not meddle...even tho i think the Russian will...

Of course Russia is involved. It is going to get worse. Unfortunately, we are no longer protected by oceans. Sooner, or latter, we will be forced to fight. It is only a matter of when, and where.

aristotle · Aug 10, 2014

In earlier times, the US left a residual peacekeeping force when wars were over. Think of the US military presence in postwar Germany, Japan and Korea. These peacekeeping forces worked precisely as intended. Regrettably, the current US administration chose not to leave residual forces in Iraq which means sooner or later we might be compelled to return to ensure peace and stability.

General Colin Powell famously said of Iraq, "if you break it, you own it." Does the United States now have a moral obligation to protect ordinary citizens of Iraq from atrocities being committed by ISIS?

It is painful to watch: PressTV - Video- ISIL shoot teens in heads, dump bodies - Video Dailymotion

layoutshooter · Aug 10, 2014

aristotle said:
In earlier times, the US left a residual peacekeeping force when wars were over. Think of the US military presence in postwar Germany, Japan and Korea. These peacekeeping forces worked precisely as intended. Regrettably, the current US administration chose not to leave residual forces in Iraq which means sooner or later we might be compelled to return to ensure peace and stability.

General Colin Powell famously said of Iraq, "if you break it, you own it." Does the United States now have a moral obligation to protect ordinary citizens of Iraq from atrocities being committed by ISIS?

It is painful to watch: PressTV - Video- ISIL shoot teens in heads, dump bodies - Video Dailymotion

Those were not "peace keeping" forces, they were occupation forces. The other HUGE difference it that both Germany, and Japan, were both soundly defeated.

aristotle · Aug 10, 2014

Germany and Japan are not under military occupation. Nor is South Korea. Yes, Germany and Japan were soundly defeated which is not the case with Islamic extremists in Iraq and Afghanistan. In the modern era of television, the US and other Western democracies are restrained by political correctness to such a degree that a true and meaningful defeat of opposing forces is not allowed.

Considering our military intervention in these countries disrupted what stability they had, do we now have a moral obligation to stop acts of genocide, ethnic cleansing amd mass slaughter? Should we act as a protectorate of the now helpless citizens of Iraq? Many contend a residual US military force no larger than 10,000 would have prevented the rise of ISIS.

layoutshooter · Aug 10, 2014

aristotle said:
Germany and Japan are not under military occupation. Nor is South Korea. Yes, Germany and Japan were soundly defeated which is not the case with Islamic extremists in Iraq and Afghanistan. In the modern era of television, the US and other Western democracies are restrained by political correctness to such a degree that a true and meaningful defeat of opposing forces is not allowed.

Considering our military intervention in these countries disrupted what stability they had, do we now have a moral obligation to stop acts of genocide, ethnic cleansing amd mass slaughter? Should we act as a protectorate of the now helpless citizens of Iraq? Many contend a residual US military force no larger than 10,000 would have prevented the rise of ISIS.

No, Not now. The US occupation of Japan ended in 1952. I think it ended in Germany in '51. We have never had peace keeping forces in Europe or Japan.

As to the Middle East, that is an entire different ball of wax. 10,000 troops would not be enough.

aristotle · Aug 10, 2014

I will ask the question a third time, does the United States have a moral obligation to protect ordinary citizens of Iraq from acts of genocide, ethnic cleansing and mass slaughter?

layoutshooter · Aug 10, 2014

aristotle said:
I will ask the question a third time, does the United States have a moral obligation to protect ordinary citizens of Iraq from acts of genocide, ethnic cleansing and mass slaughter?

The forces of the United States are for the protection of THIS Nation. We cannot afford to be the world's police force. Our moral obligation is to the People of the United States.

We do not have the money, or the forces, to stop genocide, in Iraq, or anywhere else.

Ragman · Aug 10, 2014

aristotle said:
I will ask the question a third time, does the United States have a moral obligation to protect ordinary citizens of Iraq from acts of genocide, ethnic cleansing and mass slaughter?

Yes, Period end of story.

layoutshooter · Aug 10, 2014

Ragman said:
Yes, Period end of story.

How would you do that? How would it be paid for? With what forces? We keep cutting our capabilities. Does that include all the other genocides that go on?

Ragman · Aug 10, 2014

layoutshooter said:
How would you do that? How would it be paid for? With what forces? We keep cutting our capabilities. Does that include all the other genocides that go on?

My answer is Yes, Period end of story. That's just who we are as a people.

Yes, End of story.

aristotle · Aug 10, 2014

Ragman said:
Yes, Period end of story.

Reluctantly, I agree. Having disrupted what stability Iraq previously had, we now owe them some basic level of protection. Like it or not, they are now under our protection. Arm the Kurds so they can take on ISIS.

ISIS is a savage menace not only to their fellow Muslims, but to Western democracies as well. Stop ISIS now by any means necessary.

layoutshooter · Aug 10, 2014

Ragman said:
My answer is Yes, Period end of story. That's just who we are as a people.

Yes, End of story.

We did NOT go into Rownada. China, Russia or anywhere else millions were being killed. Why Iraq?

layoutshooter · Aug 10, 2014

aristotle said:
Reluctantly, I agree. Having disrupted what stability Iraq previously had, we now owe them some basic level of protection. Like it or not, they are now under our protection. Arm the Kurds so they can take on ISIS.

ISIS is a savage menace not only to their fellow Muslims, but to Western democracies as well. Stop ISIS now by any means necessary.

I doubt very much that most of the American people would be willing to allow the US military to do what it would take to defeat ISIS.

NO more use of US forces, UNLESS, we intend to fight it right. Far too many have died, playing around. Either fight and end it, or don't go in.

We do not have the forces to do that.