Baby butchers admitting prenatal infantacide kills a baby

Turtle

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But I do agree, it should be a state issue but probably won't be.
I don't think it should even be a state issue, since it necessitates an infringement of the right to privacy without due process inherent in the right to liberty. But if "the state" is gonna do that, I'd much prefer it be on the state level rather than the federal level, for sure.

I am also mindful that not everyone would agree with my position but I think it is the best one.;) I can get to the same place whether looking through the prism of religion or not.
That's the side effect of not having the insatiable need to mind other people's business and tell them what to do. :D
 

layoutshooter

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I was taught, in Catholic school, to question everything. Just saying.

As I said, it is solely a state issue, it should be left up to a popular vote and the courts should stay home. My beliefs are mine.
 

davekc

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I don't think it should even be a state issue, since it necessitates an infringement of the right to privacy without due process inherent in the right to liberty. But if "the state" is gonna do that, I'd much prefer it be on the state level rather than the federal level, for sure.

That's the side effect of not having the insatiable need to mind other people's business and tell them what to do. :D

I got a feeling the Federal government is going to be knee deep in this over the next couple of years.
 

layoutshooter

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I got a feeling the Federal government is going to be knee deep in this over the next couple of years.

They are going to be more than knee deep in your life. They are going to be up....................... before it is over. They are going to attempt to control your every breath. They will use after birth abortions of every one between the ages of 1 and 90 to further their cause. We are headed for another dark age. People are going to wish that the abortion issue was the biggest thing they had to worry about.
 

LDB

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The problem with using lack of brain activity is that in the case of those already born who have become brain dead there is no hope for the future. In the case of a baby there is virtually guaranteed change from no brain activity to full brain activity.
 

davekc

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One could take that position, but if it hasn't happened, then it hasn't happened.
Nothing in life is guaranteed. Well maybe death and taxes.;)
 

Turtle

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The problem with using lack of brain activity is that in the case of those already born who have become brain dead there is no hope for the future.
Are you kidding me? You go and post a double-barn-door open setup like that and I, I, I... too easy. I just can't. Nope, nope, nope. Not gonna do it, wouldn't be prudent. Too easy. :D
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Are you kidding me? You go and post a double-barn-door open setup like that and I, I, I... too easy. I just can't. Nope, nope, nope. Not gonna do it, wouldn't be prudent. Too easy. :D
I too was sorely tempted ... but somehow managed to withhold myself ... ;)
 

aquitted

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It is basically when born and that is it. Not a word about anything before that if we are just looking at the religious part. Of course we see how that is interpreted through these posts.

Read the book of JOB. It will tell you when GOD says life begins.
 

davekc

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I'm not sure it addresses it any different than the bible? But since it is a Hebrew book, it is more slanted towards to Jewish faith. I only know parts of it. More of a Job verses Satan kind of thing.
Others will have to chime in for specific scripture.
 

Ragman

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I'm not sure it addresses it any different than the bible? But since it is a Hebrew book, it is more slanted towards to Jewish faith. I only know parts of it. More of a Job verses Satan kind of thing.
Others will have to chime in for specific scripture.
Calling all moose . . .
 

moose

Veteran Expediter
I'm definitely NOT an expert but i will try.
first, since there are not too many Jew's reading this, then i think what the Jewish faith have to say about this is a mute point.
for example & correct me if i'm wrong. the Jewish lobby in WDC dose not take a stand on this very political hot item.
there's one big rezone.
in the Jewish faith there's is a saying that translated into "make your self a Rabi." which mean that a person dose not needs to have all the answers, but he dose need an 'idol' Rabi, to go and ask questions.
this is why there are so many different segments of Judaism. and this is why some Rabi's will have different point of view then others.{it will depends on the Rabi Rabi for generations on...} .
having said that, i can only state for the school of though i was grown up on. to that i can testify that there is a wide acceptance for abortion, and as i stated here before, my very own{a religious family} are very pro-choice.
however, as you all can imagine, religious Jew's do not face the same level of challenges as presented in this thread.
on a side note, abortion, like many aspects of modern lifestyle, was NOT directly addressed in the Bible. not even during the time of the 'RAMBAM' {a very important Rabi, Spain golden age}(1,500+-), a time when many of modern rules have came about.
which makes for more 'interpretations'.
i can only say that much of the points made in this thread do not even cross the minds of religious Jew's when they need to make up their minds.
they are faced with totally different aspects of the same question.
now, i CAN explain how abortion is handled in Israel, if there is any interest, but again, i do not think it will add any new points to this conversation, since they are facing different set of challenges there. what work well over there- will never work over here, & vice versa .
as to be specific of what DaveKC asked, the Bible & other books {Mishnah, Talmod, Mekorot} are fill with long graphic descriptions of,lets say, the happening in the female buddy, and different levels of 'Holy' and 'Tomah' {sorry can't be translated, it's the opposite of holly-ness}. interpretations of those descriptions are what makes the case for abortion.
to try and some it up ,the questions are not whether 'it' is a person or not, the question is whether 'it's' holy or not. and since the bible is VERY clear that 'it' must be 'Tomah', there you have the case for 'pro-choice'.
any questions?{or did i just got you all more confused?}...
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
Religion would like nothing better than to end science once and for all. Religion has been cut back further and further over the aeons, from being the reason why lions eat people, lightning strikes and illness happens. Now we know that lions are independent creatures that eat meat, lightning strikes are caused by electrical buildup in the clouds and that illnesses are caused by little organisms. Every time science answers a question "why that, then?", God gets a little slimmer, and people don't like that. They don't like it so much that they either dismiss science altogether, or they invent junk science like Christian Science, which is an oxymoron on a Biblical scale.
On the contrary, every time science answers such a question, whether it's the dinosaurs, or geology/history/astronomy, we discover that the Bible said that all along, even if we didn't comprehend it as such at first. We've covered some of those here.
Remember The Simpsons episode in which a flying saucer was said to land? The reverend wasn't terribly impressed until he saw it fly, at which point he ripped off his ministerial collar, threw it on the ground, and stomped on it. Just after he did, the flying saucer fell apart and was revealed to be a hoax, with the sound coming from the pilot humming through a comb with wax paper on it. So Willie the groundskeeper says to him, in a tone dripping with accusation, "You drop something there, Reverend?"
Sometimes, what we hear from science itself doesn't stand the test of time, like the particular dinosaur fossils later found to be outright frauds, or the ossuaries that allegedly contradict what we know of scriptural history but then are found to be the work of people put for fame and fortune.
Give all scientific discoveries time to be reviewed by their peers, and the truth comes out, and we will find that the Bible was right all along.
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
You should take a load to northern Kentucky sometime and visit the Creation Museum. Those people believe the Flintstones is a documentary.

I've never been there, but it's clear that humans and dinosaurs co-existed.
 
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