Dave, a lot of the re-brokering of loads happens on Sylectus. I have never seen a load posted on Sylectus and then re-brokered by a different company. I have seen loads booked off of the emails from brokers who do not have access to Sylectus, but that Is a different story entirely. The loads are going so cheap these days for cargo vans that I don't see there being any money left in the load for the multi-carriers to re-broker the darn thing unless they're taking a loss. I still get some loads for 1.05 or 1.10 per mile for my two cargo van units that we have, but those are loads bid directly from NLM and other load boards where they haven't been double brokered. If I were to broker those loads out for lets say 95 cents per mile, there would be some money to be made, but not enough money to even waste my time to fool with it. You can get rid of all of the milti-carriers and the industry is still going to be in the crapper. When regular truckload carriers are paying their owner ops more money than expediters in a team straight tuck, our industry has just become another LTL carrier service. The customer still wants that deliver direct, dock to dock, FedEx white glove service, but they want it for the same price that regular truck drivers charge. That is what is so sad about where our industry is headed. FedEx is the one that started to lower the rates and the service standards and a lot of other large carriers have followed suit. You can hands down make more money driving a tractor trailer than you can an expedited straight truck; and you don't have to be team, you don't have to deadhead all over the country to get loads, and you don't have to wait for days on end in parking lots.
Anyone out there letting O/O's bid their own loads?
- Thread starter RoadSaint
- Start date
I meant to say that all of the double brokering happens on Sylectus. Loads that are posted on Sylectus have already been brokered at least one time. There is no way to re-broker a load onto Sylectus that was already awarded to you on Sylectus without that carrier who brokered it to you seeing what you're doing. They will see you re-posting that load in the posted orders section - the load board itself. You would have to have access to other smaller carriers who do not have access to Sylectus, or call posted trucks on Sylectus in order to engage in this sort of activity under the radar. I wouldn't even full with brokering a load a third time unless one of my trucks broke down. It's simply too complicated, and way too risky.
A lot of the bigger carriers are complaining about the smaller carriers putting the insurance costs onto their drivers rather than paying for it themselves. Why are the bigger carriers pushing off the cost of the trucks, payroll taxes, healthcare, and social security contributions off on their drivers by selling them this BS that they are independent contractors and march to the beat of their own drum? When you are an O/O you are really getting taken advantage of by your carrier. You have no social security, no healthcare, no sick days, no short term disability insurance from the state you reside in. Why don't we call all of this stuff out? Is it really worth it to buy a 150 thousand dollar straight truck to make independent contractor wages? I have really been thinking about this lately. I feel so bad for all of the drivers who spend their life savings to buy these expensive trucks and they don't get paid what they should. It's a shame!
Does this not happen even at panther dave?
true dat bliz, also the main reason that owner operators go to multi carriers in the first place is to maintain their independence, they do not want to put big company signs all over their vehicles, they do not want qualcomms, they do not want escrow accounts, and also they sign on with more than one carrier/broker because chances are that one of their companies may be able to get the load that their other companies failed to do so; and mainly they want to come and go as they please, and work for anyone or everyone that they want to, as one of the last vestiges of american entrepeneuralism. Most prefer all these things over the perks of being a "company driver/owner operator".
(anyway, this is what I have seen from my experiences as a big company driver/owner operator, a multi carrier owner operator, an exclusive carrier, a multi carrier dispatcher, a private company exclusive fleet dispatcher, and back again to an exclusive carrier, I am not affiliated in any way to multi carriers, but a lot of the true "independent contractors" will miss them when they are gone, this is sad because most of it is due to multi carriers do not seem to know how to run their business these days, much like the same problem as a lot of the exclusive carriers).
I think it has very little to do with any feel good I want to be independent thing. Most I talk to and have known when you dig a little deeper simply think they can make more money that way. Most find out they dont.
To some extent but not at the level of the smaller outfits. A lot of Panther loads that get brokered are their customers, but it does happen.
Wonder why......
RoadSaint
Expert Expediter
Those two things aren't mutually exclusive, though. As a matter of fact, I'd say they're very likely to be related on some level. Now, I'm not saying you're not right. Larger companies have more access to more loads than do smaller companies(AND more competing drivers). But when people can come and go as they please, work or don't work when they want without being pressured by their "non-employer", they tend to work less and take more time off. It's typical human nature, whether they admit it or not. It's harder to stay self-motivated sometimes, and so working less = making less. But in that case, making less because you get more time off might not necessarily be a bad thing.
Ultimately, that's what we're all doing out here. Selling off bits of our lives in the form of time invested for a profit. I don't think having the option of hanging on to a few extra bits is necessarily a bad thing.
EDIT: I'd like to be 100% clear here, so people joining the discussion fully understand. I'm not arguing against exclusivity and big carriers. I really think there are advantages to working for them, and some of the exclusive carriers who take fair percentages are really the best places to be in the business. That said, many(most) of those carriers aren't taking on new (cargo van)drivers, and if the option is: 1. Work for a crappy big company that pays poorly, demands exclusivity, and doesn't have a strong positive reputation, or 2. Go the Multi-Carrier route, then I think #2 is the better option. I was personally in that position, and that's the decision I made.
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The thing is, there's a good reason for those [good] carriers not taking on any new cargo vans, and it's that very reason that make Option 1 and Option 2 virtually identical in both perceptions and results.
RoadSaint
Expert Expediter
Sure, so what is one to do when you're a cargo van O/O and you can't get on with a good large company you're interested it? We can't just hang it up and call it quits. At least I can't. I have too much invested to just walk away.
The answer is, we do what we can to earn a living, utilizing the best options we have available to us. Can't blame us for going with the multi-carrier option when we get turned away by the big guys. I have little patience for a CV O/O working for a company that no longer accepts new CV drivers talking about how people shouldn't work for smaller multi-carrier companies. You're not in the position of those newer, less experienced drivers. Even if they're the smartest, most capable driver in the world, it won't matter what their decision-making ability is if none of the big carriers will hire them.
I can say with a fair degree of confidence that I probably contacted every carrier represented in this thread before deciding to go the route that I did.
The answer is, we do what we can to earn a living, utilizing the best options we have available to us. Can't blame us for going with the multi-carrier option when we get turned away by the big guys. I have little patience for a CV O/O working for a company that no longer accepts new CV drivers talking about how people shouldn't work for smaller multi-carrier companies. You're not in the position of those newer, less experienced drivers. Even if they're the smartest, most capable driver in the world, it won't matter what their decision-making ability is if none of the big carriers will hire them.
I can say with a fair degree of confidence that I probably contacted every carrier represented in this thread before deciding to go the route that I did.
When the big guys stop taking on cargo vans, it's because there are too many cargo vans in the industry for them or the industry to adequately support. Someone hellbent on entering this industry despite such a glaring and blaring warning sign will get even less patience than you have for those who say they shouldn't do it. It's the newer, more inexperienced drivers who are the exact people who should stay clear of the multi-carrier route. They're the ones most likely to get taken advantage of and the most likely to get screwed by one of the small rogue carriers. They're also the ones most likely to be running illegally by not having the proper insurance. No one here is gonna blame anyone for trying to earn a living, but very few here will have sympathy for those who do enter the business with ignorance, and then whine and complain because this carrier or that broker owes them money from zabazaba months ago and the owners are crooks who stole their money.
nice to see you have your sense of humour back.....This thread really isn't about you, though.
I crack myself up
RoadSaint
Expert Expediter
That's sort of the problem with this philosophy, though. The "Big Guys" aren't the arbiters of what the industry will support. The market will bear what the market will bear. Being a large company gives you a degree of control in that it allows you to "nudge" things one way or another, but if they try to bend things up, it will break. Clients will go through others to get their shipments delivered. Drivers will sign on with other companies. O/O's will find alternate means to get loads.
The "big guys" know this, and this is precisely how they operate. They don't make any huge changes that could jeopardize their market share, and while they or their agents may get on a forum online and generally speak unfavorably of smaller carriers, it doesn't stop them from utilizing those same small carriers to get a load covered when they need it.
It's sort of like the smaller carriers are in the water with the "big guys" foot on their head. The big guys aren't trying to drown them because they're useful, but they're not letting them out of the pool either to become "real" competition.
Also, I'm just sort of talking out my wazoo at this point. It all makes sense, but is complete speculation on my part based on my experience in business management and psychology. I may be giving people too much credit, but I doubt it. Normally guys at the heads of successful businesses got there because they're smart.
No, they aren't. They are, however, a direct reflection of it.
Exactly. When the big guys are adding vans it's because the market will bear it, as demand exceeds capacity. In a carrier's market, when demand exceeds capacity, blg guys and little guys alike will add vans. When that market becomes saturated and can long longer support additional vans, the big guys stop adding vans. When cargo vans continue to enter the industry anyway, through secondary and tertiary means (crappy carriers with people at the helm who aren't all that smart, and through the desperation of the multi-carrier route) then the market becomes a shipper's market where shippers control the rates, bidding wars are common on nearly every load, and cargo van loads get booked at close to half of what they should be.
No, I understand that. Those who enter the business in spite of the warning signs not to, particularly those in the multi-carrier model, will defend and rationalize it any way they have to in order to justify their decision. It's a very natural thing to do.
Smart like knowing when and when not to add cargo vans?
in some cases it is semantics the way big carriers talk as in terminology....
we are not putting on NEW vans while you see recruiting putting some thru orientation?....
OH they are not new vans just the replacements for the ones that have left....maintaining fleet size.....but overall shooting themselves in the foot because it actually increases the overall amount of competition out there ...there are the guys that just left PLUS your new ones out there....
carriers really need to start using the capacity already out here better to their advantage.....never mind that you are the biggest just downsize the fleet...
we are not putting on NEW vans while you see recruiting putting some thru orientation?....
OH they are not new vans just the replacements for the ones that have left....maintaining fleet size.....but overall shooting themselves in the foot because it actually increases the overall amount of competition out there ...there are the guys that just left PLUS your new ones out there....
carriers really need to start using the capacity already out here better to their advantage.....never mind that you are the biggest just downsize the fleet...
It's not really semantics when a carrier has 80 vans, and after orientation they still have 80 vans. If 10 vans went through orientation and all 10 came from other carriers, the net increase to the industry is zero. If the 10 who left went to other carriers who are also replacing vans that left, same zero net increase. If any of the 10 who left actually retired from the industry, then it's a net loss to the industry. The net increase in the industry happens most often not when big carriers maintain their fleet, but rather when people add to the industry using the multi-carrier model and when smaller carriers expand their fleet faster than the market will bear in getting to grow their fleet too fast.
The notion that big carriers should encourage smaller fleets to grow and multi-carrier models to flourish by showing them a little luv is the Utopian pipe dream of someone running the multi-carrier model, or someone running for a small carrier. <snark>
