Another Military travesty

Turtle · Jan 4, 2011

"I haven't followed this story other than a soundbite on the news but I wonder why, in this day and age, would they make these videos?
It doesn't seem to be a smart decision."

Excellent example of being on the outside looking in. They make the videos to lighten the tension on board a nuclear warship during a long deployment, to boost morale, to provide a temporary escape from the ugly realities of why they are there, to allow people to blow off steam in a harmless way rather than letting them just explode at the way wrong time.

Some on the outside looking in will see the videos in a very narrow context and see ridicule, and then make a judgment. But it is really mean-spirited ridicule and grossly politically incorrect, or is it nothing more than irreverent humor within the confines and context of a place where irreverent humor is isn't irreverent humor? It would be a mistake to view the videos, or the things said about them, and broadly apply that to the daily operations and interactions on board ship. As Layout stated, things are not likely to be as they seem on the surface.

scottm4211 · Jan 4, 2011

I'm not making a judgement on the content of the video, but rather the making of them. Surely they must have realized that nothing is kept private in this day and age.

x06col · Jan 4, 2011

Turtle said:
Well, I do think there are plenty of people in the higher ranks of the Navy and the Pentagon that absolutely understand this, but know they have to handle it a certain way from a PR perspective. There is no way that they will be able to explain to an overly sensitive, politically correct public that what the public thinks they see, and the conclusions they draw from that, is out of context and ignorant. The new buzzword that we will soon get sick and tired of is "inappropriate", and we'll hear it from both the ignorants and military brass alike, from the ignorants because they're, well, ignorant, and from the military brass because they have no choice but to put a very politically correct face on all of it.

Correct face is it. I had a friend whom recently got on a plane and come home from Iraq, giving up a perfectly good 200K a year job training a Congolese unit assigned to NATO doing police action there. Damed near got blowed up. Seems Hilary has implemented policy that ya nearly hafta walk to a suspected bomber an ask if'n thay's got a bomb under that dress fore they can take action. Now that is affirmitave action in it's grandest form.

layoutshooter · Jan 4, 2011

In the "old days", before political correctness we USED to be able to "weed out" weaklings, cry babies and whiners in basic training. That was done by the DI's when they "got in peoples faces". Called them names, cussed at them, rode them HARD and put them away wet. If you can't handle that you sure as heck cannot handle the pressure of real world military duty or combat. We are no longer able to "ride people" to find out who is too weak, both physically or mentally and are stuck with a weaker military. Social experiments do NOT belong in the military. No one who lives in "Nambie Pambie" land or drinks kool aid belongs. It is a NASTY, TOUGH job and only the strongest need apply. Can't handle it? TOUGH!!

witness23 · Jan 4, 2011

x06col said:
Correct face is it. I had a friend whom recently got on a plane and come home from Iraq, giving up a perfectly good 200K a year job training a Congolese unit assigned to NATO doing police action there. Damed near got blowed up. Seems Hilary has implemented policy that ya nearly hafta walk to a suspected bomber an ask if'n thay's got a bomb under that dress fore they can take action. Now that is affirmitave action in it's grandest form.

What the??????

jaminjim · Jan 4, 2011

Typically the ones that couldn't 'hang' went in the Air Farce, or the Navy. Now we will be able to have a kinder Army. Don't think the Marines will be Conquered just yet tho.

cheri1122 · Jan 4, 2011

scottm4211 said:
I'm not making a judgement on the content of the video, but rather the making of them. Surely they must have realized that nothing is kept private in this day and age.

Whereas my judgement is contrary: not the making of them, but the content. Contrary to Turtle's opinion, I don't find ridicule of a group of people [based upon characteristics they didn't choose] defensible, in any context. And encouraging it among people who must risk their lives for & with each other seems really stupid to me.

layoutshooter · Jan 4, 2011

witness23 said:
What the??????

Yep, and that is only the tip of the iceberg. Our CIC and his numbgut appointees are implimenting all kinds of rules that insure that MORE of our military get KILLED than need be. These are VILE people we have in charge. Like having to "read a suspected bomber" their "Rights" or NOT be allowed to pursue KNOWN enemy into houses/churches/mosques etc. The enemy USES churches/mosques and hospitals as FIRE BASES and we are NOT allowed to return fire. It is BAD to say the least.

layoutshooter · Jan 4, 2011

cheri1122 said:
Whereas my judgement is contrary: not the making of them, but the content. Contrary to Turtle's opinion, I don't find ridicule of a group of people [based upon characteristics they didn't choose] defensible, in any context. And encouraging it among people who must risk their lives for & with each other seems really stupid to me.

Most of us who were in the military during a different era got called every name in the book, EVERYONE was made fun of. Got get rid of weaklings who can't handle a LITTLE stress like that. Can't handle that you can't handle REAL stuff, like getting shot at. Keep in mind, EVERYONE who is in the military has the job of "riflemen" first then their other job. The job of the military is to break things and kill people. Hard to handle that if you can't handle being called a "JackWagon".

witness23 · Jan 4, 2011

layoutshooter said:
We are no longer able to "ride people" to find out who is too weak, both physically or mentally and are stuck with a weaker military.

Where can you direct me to show that tactics used in boot camp today are so drastically different from the "old days" as you put it? Specifically where they, the DI's, are no longer aloud to get in the face of a recruit.

Social experiments do NOT belong in the military.

What social experiments are you referring to?

No one who lives in "Nambie Pambie" land or drinks kool aid belongs. It is a NASTY, TOUGH job and only the strongest need apply. Can't handle it? TOUGH!!

From the sound of it, I think you need to "Chug on over to namby pamby land" and stop your whining about how bad it is here, of all places, the greatest nation of all the world.

greg334 · Jan 4, 2011

What gets me is the intejection of race and gender on a situation many here don't get.

It is really simple, it is political correctness run amok.

Don't worry what your kid tells you that life is like, go on a ship, see how they live and understand that there is a lot more fairness than what you can think could ever be possible.

layoutshooter · Jan 4, 2011

"From the sound of it, I think you need to "Chug on over to namby pamby land" and stop your whining about how bad it is here, of all places, the greatest nation of all the world."

I did my duty, with honor and integrity. I am NOT required to agree with you on your beliefs about this Nation. I believe our government is out of control, you like it this way or at least seem to.That is your right. Just as it is mine to fight against it.

DI's are no longer able to go "Nose to Nose" with recruits. They cannot "cuss you out" any longer. The army even had (don't know if they still do) "stress cards" that a recruit could "flash" at his DI if things were getting too tough for him, her or it.

Social experiments is what I call stupid things. Example: we had a really fun rifle training course that was called "Quick Kill" We get to run down through the woods with live rounds, firing at pop up targets. Like playing army when you were a kid only with live rounds!! The second time we ran that course they had change the name to "Quick Fire" WHY? Somebodies mommy had complained to her congressmen that her "little baby" was being taught to "kill things".

Just ask a DI today to get the scoop. I am not making this stuff up.

greg334 · Jan 4, 2011

Layout,
The BBC and I think ABC both did investigations on the subject of real problems with the US military and I know the BBC went through almost the entire process from intake at the recuirter to the end of boot, it was aired a few years back when the numbers were slipping. The ABC one I never got to see. Well it was an eye opener, there is so much crap that goes on, I am amazed that we have a military with some who make it through after going through the special programs.

layoutshooter · Jan 4, 2011

Yes Greg, I know it is VERY bad. Several of the military people I know are getting out as soon as their current enlistments are up. They are fed up with what is going on. They are fed up with dealing with wimps. Fed up with orders from "on high" that are getting them maimed and killed. They have absolutely NO USE for this administration and will not serve under Obama any longer than they have too. As with most people of honor they will serve out their time and then leave. You cannot follow a CIC that has ZERO respect for you or you for him. It is not a good situation. I know the feeling. I quit my job because I would NOT work for a man like Bill Clinton. Just as would never serve under Obama.

x06col · Jan 4, 2011

witness23 said:
What the??????

Ooooh, what hav we here? First, maybe you should change your avatar. Second, what didn't you understand about what I typed????

Third, I have nothing to do but wait for a Tractor Pull at Ft. Meade, FL next Wednesday. Maybe, jes maybe y'all should git some rest fer the next run, steada typing on here.

Turtle · Jan 4, 2011

greg334 said:
What gets me is the intejection of race and gender on a situation many here don't get.

It is really simple, it is political correctness run amok.

Exactly. When political correctness runs amok, the mere mention of racial, ethnic, gender, sexual orientation or religion in any way, shape or form, even within harmless humor, becomes outright ridicule, even where ridicule doesn't exist, since by definition ridicule must stem from a base of derision of a mean-spirited nature, with primary intent to actually hurt someone's feelings.

Even watching those videos totally out of context, it doesn't take much reasoning at all to to consider what the actual context of the video might have been, much less that there might actually be some other context, unless you prefer to ignore context possibilities, as well as to ignore the sailors of every "phobia" group across the board who stated the videos were welcomed entertainment on board ship.

So let's just run amok and ignore contextual possibilities and go straight to mean-spirited, deriding ridicule, since there can be no other possibility. The people of the armed forces are not allowed to be imperfect people and should never engage in unauthorized and unapproved humor and should instead be all business all the time and stick to blowing things up and killing people.

I understand the Navy has now banned the showing of any and all videos, movies and television shows which contain humor of any kind, lest the professional warriors on board get their widdle feewings hurt.

layoutshooter · Jan 4, 2011

I wonder what some of the "political correctness" group would have to say about some of the USO shows that Bob Hope and others did during WWII and 'Nam? Man, some of the stuff I heard at one that Dean Martin did would have landed him in jail these days. IT WAS REALLY FUNNY. Can you imagine Don Rickles having to adhere to today's silliness? He would never had a career!