It's a hard life. I can't imagine being called "sweet cakes" Whew, that could scar a person for life. 
Another Military travesty
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RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Nope - I suspect that he was relieved for the following:
933. ART. 133. CONDUCT UNBECOMING AN OFFICER AND A GENTLEMAN
Any commissioned officer, cadet, or midshipman who is convicted of conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
934. ART. 134. GENERAL ARTICLE
Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court.
What will be a shame is if all gets is permanently relieved of his command .... and not charged, tried, and convicted.
Yup - that's kinda the way it works over here in the good ole US of A - the military is under, and subservient to, civilian control .... seems there was some fellas back .... oh, I dunno ... 230 years or so ago ? ..... that thought this might be a good idea .... I kinda agree with 'em .....
If you think that this is not a good idea, I would suggest that there are still a number of places where the opposite model is practiced .... places like Niger, Burma, Fiji, and North Korea, which are all military dictatorships ... as well as some which are very close to being that way - such as Sudan and a few others ..... and of course there is no shortage in history of such places who practiced that model ...
Interestingly, most of the ones who did so tended not to be benign .... and would clearly not represent anything which could be commonly held as being in any way similar to the American model, which values liberty and freedom, individual rights, property rights, and the rule of law.
By the way, do you actually have any evidence to offer, or an actual name about who that "CIVILIAN bureaucrat" was ?
Seems to me that at least some, apparently, in the military aren't down with the "frat boy" persona that you seem so fond of:
Every one of the names mentioned above in the quote has served in the military.
Like I said, what civilian are you referring to ?
Mistake of birth - "we" was born here, in the United States.
If this keeps up - and hopefully it will - we may end up yet some day actually having a military we can be truly proud of - as opposed to just having some sort of false patriotism grounded in fear, and a irrational fawning over all things military .... simply because they are military.
If one truly wants respect, then one personally does those things to actually earn it .... "respect" obtained under duress, the threat of force, and fear is, at best ...... just well-hidden scorn or contempt ....
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Yes Gates i'm sure flew his desk in fine fashon at Whitman. Sad to say, he has his foot up all the other players azzes in this particular game. Too bad.
Dunno, but it prolly did not start with Gates or Mullin or..... it jes started with someone lurking.
Dunno, but it prolly did not start with Gates or Mullin or..... it jes started with someone lurking.
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Captain Honors also said "Over the years, I've gotten several complaints - never directly, but gutlessly, through other channels."
A Captain who doesn't see that complaining about a video he made & starred in would take not guts, but a death wish, for anyone under his command, has no business commanding anyone.
The Commander of a NUCLEAR aircraft carrier must have judgment beyond questioning - and this man does not appear to have the judgment to lead a pack of Cub Scouts.
A Captain who doesn't see that complaining about a video he made & starred in would take not guts, but a death wish, for anyone under his command, has no business commanding anyone.
The Commander of a NUCLEAR aircraft carrier must have judgment beyond questioning - and this man does not appear to have the judgment to lead a pack of Cub Scouts.
Agreed. Poor judgement.
I wonder Cherri, (I am NOT trying to be a smart butt) How will you handle it IF your daughter is assigned to a job that requires a security clearance? It seems, on the surface, that you might have a mistrust of those who handle classified material. Would you trust your daughter? Will you get upset if she refuses to talk about those things with you? It could happen you know. It is even likely. MANY military MOS's require security clearances. I am asking this, again not to be a smart butt, but I really want to know how you might handle it? You KNOW that she could not legally discuss those things with you, how will you react? Had you thought about this? She would even be REQUIRED BY LAW to report you IF you pressed her for information. (not saying that you would) She could even find herself in my old work. I find this an interesting side bar. It would no longer be "the other guy". I would love to know your thoughts.
Several???? Over the years??? Considering a population over 5000 over....say ten years, an ya git "several" complaints???? Considering the dynamics of personnel on a Carrier, several complaints would amount to maybe a hunnert folks outa a turnover of 25,000. Are you suggesting we turn this country upside down over a half percent of ingrats???
Jes asking?? Kant imagine what you folks want???
Brisco
Expert Expediter
What a load of crap...............
Let's say if we applied this same logic to Patton, to Bradley, to Ike back in WWII, and followed todays Political Correctness BS, then the only choice we would have had for Commanders out on the battlefield would have been Sgt Carter and Gomer Pyle. Outcome of WWII would have been a farce with US soldiers laying down their weapons as quick as the French do.
This is PC run amuck with decisions made by civilians that have no real valued interest in trying to learn about Military life, that's all.
I am going to direct one saying to the blossomed one here. Cheri, either serve our country as a Mlitary person or get off the soapbox, got it. I respect the hell out of your daughters decision to "voluntarily" join the Navy, even if it is the Navy, but if she goes into the Navy with Mommas outlook, she may last 6 months. If she does not make it, YES, she will have to pay back that signing bonus and will not be eligible for all that tuition money she's going after. Of which, IMO, is the only reason she's "voluntarily" joining.
My opinion, live with it.
Mistrust those who handle classified material? Nope, what I mistrust is a climate of fear that keeps knowledge of wrong quiet. [As it kept quiet who knows how many who could have prevented so many disgraceful events from continuing - from Tailhook to Captain Honors.]
If my daughter were required to not discuss something with me, I'd accept that, and expect her to honor her obligations, same as I always have. [When I was a nurse, patient confidentiality ruled what I could and couldn't discuss, and I honored my obligations.]
I taught my girls to know right from wrong. And I try to live that way myself, though I'm not perfect. I have, for the past 5 years refused to join my daughter's complaints about her father [with whom she lives] and his new wife, because my daughter needs to respect them - not because I think she's wrong. [Many of her complaints are valid, like when she was forbidden to wrap her just bought Christmas gifts at home, because she "might wrap something for her mother" - that's about as petty and childish as one can get, I think] But I don't think it's in her best interest to disrespect her father, or for her to hear me do so. What she hears from me is that she will face a lot of difficult people and situations in her life, and must learn to deal with them, without ever forgetting that 2 wrongs don't make a right.
Her parents aren't paying for her college, or her car, insurance, cell phone, clothes - she is. [As her older sister did.]
I have raised my children to be self sufficient, not spoiled or 'entitled', and I am very proud of both of them. Whatever mistakes I've made, raising my daughters isn't among them - they are both better than I might deserve.
Thank you for the answer and for taking it as I meant. I was not, however, asking about how she paid for school etc. None of my business.
There's a fabulous quote that's attributed to several people - George Orwell, Winston Churchill among them - that really hits home when discussing this topic:
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
But there are those that have never been in a locker room with their team after competition, or in their barracks after having just completed the obstacle course in basic training, or just back from a dangerous mission in combat. They don't understand the mentality and camaraderie associated with these activities - they only relate to their reality as portrayed last night on TV.
"People sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
But there are those that have never been in a locker room with their team after competition, or in their barracks after having just completed the obstacle course in basic training, or just back from a dangerous mission in combat. They don't understand the mentality and camaraderie associated with these activities - they only relate to their reality as portrayed last night on TV.
You are free to attack my words, opinions, whatever - but when you cast dishonorable aspersions on someone you know nothing about, you are way out of line.
If you understood the difference between demanding respect and commanding it, I'd reply to your asinine conclusions, but you don't, and probably aren't capable of it.
EnglishLady
Veteran Expediter
Unfortunately that was then and this is now, there is no comparison.
Is the world softer now - yes most definitely & we can thank the dogooders for that.
The world moves on and so must you. You cannot bring to todays world the spirit of yesteryear. Living in the past will not help you understand today's world.. ...
"when I was a boy ....etc etc"
One other thing ....when was having to have served in the Military the admission to the Soapbox?
Yes I was in the Military btw
Hey Sue, who's military were you in? What job? So MANY surprises!! I worked with many from the British Army and GCHQ.
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
Maybe not understand it... but if you have a fattawa against someone or something, you just got handed the world on a silver platter. THAT'S today's world. And I wish we had a McArthur around to tell those in charge where to stick it!
greg334
Veteran Expediter
T-hawk hit the nail right on the head ...
Any enemy of ours past, present and future doesn't take in account who they are going to kill, male female, white black, gay straight - it doesn't matter to them, they want to damage our ability to fight any way they can.
The problem is the world has yet to change to conform to some political correctness and according to some who think that it is outright unfair that we don't have gays in the military or that some brat should be given a break because mommy feels a certain way they can't comprehend what it takes to actually fight. We live in dangerous times and always have, but the difference between then and now is we worry about trivial social issues within the military now while it is not what we should be worrying about.
Sue the world has not changed.
Any enemy of ours past, present and future doesn't take in account who they are going to kill, male female, white black, gay straight - it doesn't matter to them, they want to damage our ability to fight any way they can.
The problem is the world has yet to change to conform to some political correctness and according to some who think that it is outright unfair that we don't have gays in the military or that some brat should be given a break because mommy feels a certain way they can't comprehend what it takes to actually fight. We live in dangerous times and always have, but the difference between then and now is we worry about trivial social issues within the military now while it is not what we should be worrying about.
Sue the world has not changed.
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EnglishLady
Veteran Expediter
Not disagreeing with you at all my friend. It is a very different world today with very different rules.
EnglishLady
Veteran Expediter
My dad was disappointed cos he was Navy, as were so many of my Uncles ..... but I rebelled and joined the RAF
Our rules make no sense considering that those who would do us harm make their own. You have to fight fire with fire. Yes, it is a very different world, with very different rules and unless we start to fight like that is true, we will lose. This enemy is NO different than those we faced in the 20th century.
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