About national Healthcare

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Now that I resided in the U.S. for awhile and have been exposed to the medicare and medicade programs I have come to the conclusion..It Sucks down here!
My usually GOP friendly wife A full blooded American finally agrees a National healthcare program doesn't look so bad since her being a resident in Canada and experiencing that system. Now she says it doesn't so bad paying a couple cents more tax per dollar to have coverage form county to county across the land.
Being on the downside of 50 and my motherinlaw being in a nursing home and finding her care has been a nightmare...No patient transfer between points unless iminient death and so forth.
Here in South Dakota insurance is outragious...over 2000 dollar a quarter each and a 5,000 deductable!!
I think I'd prefer the National plan.
 

Jayman

Expert Expediter
I prefer what we have now. I have control over my healthcare, not some system or government entity. There is a reason so many around the world come to America for healthcare. (Its the best in the world)

Too many people think that there is some free lunch out there. National healthcare somehow gets to everybody, but who pays for it?? The people do. I dont wish to see another social program where I have to pay for somebody else. So...if you dont like our ways, you can always move to Canada.:+
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Jayman..The U,S has one of the WORST healthcare systems in the world and that sir has been documented! Most industrial countries have some form of National Healthcare The U.S is one of the last dinosaurs.
And I think I'll stay here and become an American and exercise my right to vote just to cancel yours out and try to help change the thinking down here.
BTW//I never said it was a free lunch...ya gotta pay one way or the other.
 

Jayman

Expert Expediter
I will keep what we have now. Where is this documented evidence that says our hospitals and clinics lack the doctors and technology of other nations?? In this system I can get whatever I can afford to buy. (darn good insentive to do something in life instead of expecting somebody else or your govt to take care of you)

If you wish to immigrate to our nation that is ok. But, please dont tell us that we have to change what we are doing. If your national healthcare is so good in Canada, why are you here anyway?
 

RichM

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Compare income tax rates in the USA and then Canada. There is no free lunch.
 

terryandrene

Veteran Expediter
Safety & Compliance
US Coast Guard
We Americans sure have a healthcare system at which few, if any other, Countries would marvel. But, there is no better healthcare anywhere in the world than in the US of A.

People come to the United States for any number of reasons. Those that come here, from any Nation, should adopt the American ways and means instead of advocating that our citizenry adopt the practices of their country.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
So when I become an American I am not to advocate change?
The Canadian system is not perfect either and change is good.

There is no doubt American doctors and care is top notch for those who have AFFORDABLE access.

As I said before there is no such thing as FREE healthcare.

What I've seen is that the insurance companies control the healthcare sector and what level of care we get.

The Democrats and Republicans and Pres. Bush have all been advocating a National Healthcare system of some sort.

BTW...I do not expect the government to care for me.

I do however to get more for my U.S. dollar then I am getting. The insurance companies have a lock on the system.
 

Jayman

Expert Expediter
You make some good points. But, we dont need another social program. There are many ways to get healthcare. You just have to be willing to find it. We have a good hospital in my home town that will take care of you even if you dont have the $s. I am sure Terre Haute, IN isnt the only city with a hospital like that...

Either way, the people with money pay for the ones who dont one way or another. With our program...we get better and faster care than anywhere. Plus, we have more control.

I am in favor of making things better. But, a program like Canada or England offers is not the way to go. I dont want somebody else telling me what I am allowed to have. Plus, I have met a few Canadians that have said they had to wait weeks to get into the program and get the care they need.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
We were at the inlaws this weekend, in Ontario. My wife's dad mentioned one of his friends who has cancer, and the gov pushed back her operation date. She wondered if bashing her head on the sidewalk would get her in for her operation sooner.

Sorry... not what I want in healthcare.

"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know." - Kansas
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
We have THE BEST healthcare in the world due in large part to the government not being in it any more than they are. National healthcare will give you healthcare that matches our current healthcare system. Nobody sane would wish for that.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
Our infant mortality rate,per capita,is just behind Ghana.
The rich get well,the poor lose infants,and the middle class suck it up.
Not exactly what I would expect from a super power who wastes billions each month on a meaningless war,while our medical system is unresponsive to over 60% of our population.This includes many working Americans(not immigrants)who simply cannot pay for coverage, feed their famiies and provide suitable housing.
A national health care program,like so many issues in our country,is side tracked because it is primarly a problem of the poor working class.However,it is inching into the middle class.I know,those damned democrats can't wait to start spending money on saving Americans lives when it's so much better to waste billions on silly wars with no end.
I guess it's the difference between us and them.
 

Jayman

Expert Expediter
I feel that no matter how much money you have...you will find pretty good healthcare. Especially if your in a city of 75k or more. Our liberal, giving, kind, and somewhat social society will not allow people to go long without care if they are really in need. You just have to know where to get it.
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
The problem is exactly the point you make.
It costs 3 times more (to tax payers)to treat poor case's as they come in,and it absolutly bankrupts poor communities.No communities have the tax base to continue to treat people on an adhoc basis.
The answer is not"stay the course",as it will eventually lead to community and goverment subsidized hospitals closing their doors.
Private hospitals have no obligation to see patiants .Paticularly those with no means to pay their bills.Even in life threatning situations.It happens everyday.
I would suggest you reserch the health crisis in this country before making sweeping statements about letting our populace stumble into some hospital and gettiing some kind of care.
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
What about the 60% who are uninsured,and work,but don't earn a living wage(minimum wage increase?)and can't afford even a co payment?
You can still have your choice of what ever plan you want Leo,that will not go away,as you can afford it.Same with me.
But come on man,millions in this country go to work,do the jobs that are available in their depressed area's of the rust belt,and have to make choice's like food or heat or health care.
"Tough luck" is certainly one option,but I don't see it working in a country that is trying (in vain)to export our way of life,our high values,and our care and concern for the individual.It's not true in todays America.It's about the haves and the have nots.
.
 

Jayman

Expert Expediter
Color me old fashioned, but...I still believe if you are one of those "have nots" (like I was about 12 yrs ago)(not that I am rich now) its just a matter of time before things turn around for you. Some have to work harder than others or even move out of those disadvantaged/depressed areas. But, to me the bottom line is whether the person wants to get out and achieve or lay in the rut and cry about how they got it. I believe life is about choices. I worked my A$& off 12 yrs ago in a foundry for $6.96/hr. (with a 4yr degree) How do you think I felt? I know what its like to not be happy and not have some of the things you like or need. There is a way to move into something better if you keep trying...
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
It is a truly sad, and scary thought, that health care, higher education, home ownership, and savings accounts for retirement & emergencies, have become luxuries for so many people who work to support their families. Jobs that pay a living wage are pretty scarce these days, and even combining two part time jobs won't provide health care benefits.
Jayman, it is true that hospitals are required to treat people who cannot afford to pay, BUT they are required only to stabilize a lifethreatening condition, in cases where they determine that you can afford treatment - even if it means you haven't money enough to pay for rent, food, and other essentials, after paying the bill.
We are handing more and more money to the government, and getting less and less for it every year.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Boo hoo.......

National health care – NO WAY!

Unless you all know how the system works, I would say that you need to educate yourself to the system and how it can be fixed before falling into a National Health Care trap.

We live in a country that leads the world; I mean LEADS the world in medical innovations and discoveries. We spend more money on health care per person than any other country.

I do not agree with the 60% of uninsured crap, this number which is floated around by a lot of groups also includes Medicaid and Medicare people who do not have any insurance. The number is more like <20% - beside insurance is not the issue for many, it is access that ensure good care close to the real cost.

I also don’t buy into the crap that the cost of health care is the biggest issue that businesses face; the problem is the insurance company games and what they pay for. I mean why should BCBS pay the cost for a sex change operation or when someone is dying spend a lot of money on another operation when there is no hope (doctor decided surgery – not patient) – ALL OF THIS DRIVES THE COST UP FOR US, THE INSURANCE COMPANY PASSES ON THIS TO US.

But I know that you don’t care about this, so I point to something else; Medicare. If you want to see what National health care will look and act like, look at Medicare. This is a national health care and it is a big mess. It is by far one of the worst government program ever conceived and I would love to see it go away. The abuse and fraud is worst with doctors than any where else, YES TallCal, even worst than Halliburton, Boeing and any military contractor could ever have.

Doctors make up their ‘loss’ by padding the bills, not all but enough to make it hurt all of us.

Here is a good link – read the article –

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/11/21/224331.shtml?s=ic

But what about the ‘uninsured’? I don’t have all the answers but providing government health care is the WORST thing for all.

I am uninsured, I have to scrape and save for my prescriptions and doctor visits. I have to deal with interns, a teaching clinic and people who think I am some dummy that just came out of an egg. I have been insulted, talked down to and almost hit a doctor for his attitude toward me. I know the billing game, all about HIPAA (sat on the BCBS Michigan advisory board for HIPAA) better than any of them and know what they can do and can not do. I get by but I am not happy about it.

So what I see can help the situation is a good fix which we will never see until people here in our country get off their a** and start doing something about it. Stop making it an election year issue and stop thinking about Medicare as a right. Insured, uninsured, independent – all have to get involved.

Let’s go down the list really quick.

The first thing is the insurance companies needs to stop paying for elective surgeries like Sex Change operations (that is one example I have about 300 of them I can list)

The second thing is the need to promote healthy living through insurance companies and the doctors. Something that is sorely lacking at the medical schools is proper education of healthy living.

About 100 or so years ago, France had a problem with malnutrition and high mortality rate. Well to shorten this, check out “The French Diet: Why French Women Don't Get Fat†by Michel Montignac that illustrates my point completely about proper nutrition.

The third thing is we no longer live in a manual labor society, meaning our kids for the most part are getting fat and lazy. We need to get the kids to move, but I know that is impossible for some parents.

Oh Tallcal, the reason we have high mortality rate is not because the lack of access or health care, it is because people are lazy and stupid. My wife works with a girl who got ‘knocked up’ (the girl’s words) to keep her boyfriend, yes trap him. He took off and she went on Medicaid. She makes more than my wife, $26,000 plus health care at the company but she gets Medicaid. She found out that when she names the boyfriend on the birth certificate, the state will go after him to pay back some of the cost, so she dropped Medicaid and has not been back to the doctor. Who’s fault is this? It is not the country’s fault, is it?

Well anyway, I also think that simple things like nutrition education is a good thing.

The fourth thing is something I said before, DOCTOR ACCOUNTABLITY. We lack a national doctor licensing system; it is still in the dark ages and state run. I say get rid of the state licensing system and make it national. This will eliminate a lot of problems with doctors who hack up a patient in say NY and move to Florida and continue their practice. Also I had to deal with the doctors who were caught being drug addicts, I think that this is where we need to pull licenses and not give doctors second, third of fourth chances. I got a good story but it is too long to post about this.

This leads me to point five – tort reform, sort of....

A lot of cases of malpractice is justified but a lot of the cases should never get to court but they do. The person who sued over cutting their finger off and the doctor can’t reattached it should not sue. But on the other hand a lot of doctors are protected by the courts when they are drunk or drugged up if they are under treatment.

Point six – Common Sense
 

Jayman

Expert Expediter
Oh yeah... Cherri,

"We are handing more and more money to the government, and getting less and less for it every year."

Maybe its the perspective? I dont pay taxes and expect the government to pay all my medical bills. (in fact...they dont pay any of them) If they pay for so and so's bill, they should pay for mine no matter what my income is if I am paying taxes. But...that would be a socialistic way of life that this country really wasnt founded on... We need to stop the notion that big government is the way and the solution to all our problems. Bush wants to cut taxes so you have more in your pocket to pay your bills. Dems want to raise your taxes. What do you want, Cherri?

Jay
 
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