About national Healthcare

[OntarioVanMan]

If you believe WHO the figures below shows the U.S spends more per capita then Canada. BUT Life expectancy is shorter in the U.S and Mortatity rates are also higher in the U.S and yet the U.S far spends more.

U.S.A 2004 from WHO

Total population: 298,213,000

GDP per capita (Intl $, 2004): 39,901

Life expectancy at birth m/f (years): 75.0/80.0

Healthy life expectancy at birth m/f (years, 2002): 67.2/71.3

Child mortality m/f (per 1000): 8/7

Adult mortality m/f (per 1000): 137/81

Total health expenditure per capita (Intl $, 2003): 5,711

Total health expenditure as % of GDP (2003): 15.2


Canada 2004 from WHO

Total population: 32,268,000

GDP per capita (Intl $, 2004): 31,389

Life expectancy at birth m/f (years): 78.0/83.0

Healthy life expectancy at birth m/f (years, 2002): 70.1/74.0

Child mortality m/f (per 1000): 6/5

Adult mortality m/f (per 1000): 91/57

Total health expenditure per capita (Intl $, 2003): 2,989

Total health expenditure as % of GDP (2003): 9.9

This goes to show only that the system is not working spending alot and not getting your moneys worth. There's holes in the boat and it needs plugged. Whether it's the Dr's and /or insurance companies someones gotta watch the cadh register.

 

[yaaintdeadyet]

Would the U.S. be a healthier nation with 261 million fewer people straining it's "system"? Granted 10+ million of those folks are undocumented residents. Most of whom had no pre-natal care or childhood immunizations. Could a corridor from our nearest Latin American country directly to Canadian healthcare resolve some of the pull on the U.S. network? That same corridor would expedite those Canadians on their way to cheap Mexican dentists, eye care and prescriptions.
For those of you that do, enjoy your bird today. A bird by the way that was raised and processed with the healthiest food requirements the world has ever known.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

To some extent I agree ...all those "illegals" would put a strain an ANY system and also contribute to those numbers as most af them are not inoculated. Life expectancy and mortality rate would be much higher in them illegals.

To Tennesse... My motherinlaws operation was put off for 5 hours and the surgeon was 2 hours late. Theres not much difference whether one pays or someone else.

 

[highway star]

A Canadian co-worker of mine got breast cancer. She was treated in Canada and all went well, the first time. Less than 2 years later it came back and she was told that it was more aggressive this time around. However, the treatment process was no different. She wanted things to go quicker being fearful that the cancer would grow at a faster rate than before. Not being happy with the pace of her treatment, she went across the river to Detroit. She says the difference was absolutely remarkable. Now, I know this is just one persons experience, but we've all heard these kinds of stories.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Ontatio... I can see a lot of those numbers on the American side coming from the "ignorant class". Not to be confused with the lower class, the ignorant class may or may not have the means to pay for anything, they just choose not to pay attention to reality. Usually a case of "my bling is bigger than your bling", these ppl are so wrapped up in their bling and drugs, they either ignore their kids' needs or kill or get killed over bling and drugs. If it affects only the ppl who are at fault, it would be a perfect population control... but it doesn't.

Apparently, Canada is learning a lot from our ignorant class, as gang related murders are on the rise there as well.

"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know." - Kansas

 

[cheri1122]

Jayman, you asked what I want: I want people, myself included, to have access to jobs that allow us to pay for what we need. That includes taxes for the common needs, and our own individual needs: housing, upkeep & repairs, food, clothing, medical/dental care, transportation, upkeep & repairs, education, recreation, and saving for emergencies & retirement.
There are so many people who want to be hard working & productive members of society, struggling to cover everyday needs on the wages offerred.
I want the attitude that those at the top deserve 800 times the pay of an average worker to be seen as unacceptable greed.
I want the attitude that government giveaways to corporations are acceptable, while aid to people who work for a living, without earning a living wage, is derided, to be seen as hypocrisy.
I want to be self sufficient, and I've worked hard to accomplish that. But when costs keep going up, and wages don't, something has to be sacrificed - and it's the 'luxuries' like health care, education, recreation, etc, that one does without.
Without a solid working class, what does the future look like for our children, our grandchildren?

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Tennesse...your right there on both points!

Cheri...The American dream.

Its a shame more Canadian,Americans White and blacks didn't want to leave the slums and ghettos and get thier collective butts out west here. Theres lots of jobs. Heck even Micky D's is paying 10 bucks an hour top start! Some can't even stay open all evening for lack of staff!! The mines in Cheyenne can't find people who can even pass the drug test!!! If people want to improve thier position in life only THEY can do it...Can't rely on the governments to pay your bills which they shouldn't! I guess flippin burgers is not good enough for Canadians, Americans, Its below them. Who knows what goes thru thier minds but something has to give....

Had to come back...

Why doesn't the Government RELOCATE them? Instead of paying out welfare.

 

[greg334]

You know that there are a couple McDonalds that pay over $11 an hour near U of M with benefits.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Yipper ..and alot have Help Wanted signs????

 

[Jayman]

It isnt what happens to you but...how you handle what happens to you. There are ways to succeed. I can understand somebody struggling for a time. But, if somebody says they are destined to be destitute...I say they arent trying hard enough or they have made some real bad decisions in life. Our nation doesnt need to make sweeping changes to change your life. You need to make some sweeping changes.

Oh yeah...in memory of John F. Kennedy. Ask not what your country can do for you...ask what you can do for your country. :7

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Jayman... I like the words of just a dumb expeditor. Ask not what your country can do for you, ask your government "What the hell are you doing TO us???"
Or better yet, the words of a wise bumper sticker: "I love my country, but fear my government!"



"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know." - Kansas

 

[Jayman]

I dont think JFK would of liked you. LOL Just kidding.

 

[cheri1122]

I read a guest editorial the other day in the Lafayette, Indiana paper. Mr John Patterson wrote about receiving a bill for a hospital visit, of $205. His medical insurance got a 75% discount, and had to pay just $49. He asks: if the care could be covered at $49, why should an uninsured person have to pay the $205?
As the uninsured person who has paid even more than that for one visit to a "doc in a box", I'd like to know the answer to that, too.
Now, Jayman, do you still say that "either way, those with money pay for those with less?" From my perspective, it looks to be the other way round!
PS It isn't just hospitals who take advantage of those with less money, to placate the bigger fish - banks are a prime example of the practice. And everything is nice & legal, because the politicians pretty much allow the corporations to write the laws.

 

[Jayman]

I think in most cases the ones with money pay atleast part of the bill for those who dont. In taxes, higher insurance premiums, etc. Not that helping somebody else is bad. I am a giving guy. But, I think it all depends on the situation. One could make a case either way depending on what scenerio they look at.

Cheri, I know you have a good heart and I hope my somewhat rigid thinking doesnt make one think I am selfish. I am pretty generous, but believe in balance.

Hope you all have a good weekend whether your on the road or at home. Go Colts! :7

 

[Broompilot]

The last time I said anything about a Canadian critizing our system or govt. It offended someone here like the OWNER OF THIS SITE. Hmm you all are now as guilty as I was even though I believe you are right as I did myself.

That is great, that they love their system so much to let a govt take care of you from Cradle to Grave. I ask though why it takes so long to schedule a minor surgery in Canada? One can be in great pain but is it not true they must wait cause of a long waiting list?

I will give an example of how effective OUR government is in regulating health care, specifficaly Workers Comp. I called to see about getting a Policy for just myself, now this is just how effective and cost efficent our government aids us at getting a policy. Can anyone afford this amount for just an injury that occurs at WORK, now one must still carry health insurance is this not double coverage at its best? The dollar amount I was told from the state of North Carolina $5,500.00 a year.

That is double what my health care costs are. Thats what happens when a govt. gets involved on what we should be taking care of ourselves. Just a little note to thank all of those people who let this get so out of control, and once it starts it never stops growing just like KUDZO.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Broom..
Yes we let the government manage our healthcare thru our taxes paid. And yes there is some wait times involved as surgery and tests are based on importance like are you going to die to-day. I had carpel tunnel surgery done within 6 weeks of diagnosis.
Usually the complainers of wait times are the ones that are self-important and selfish. The Canadian system is like sharing and taking care of the whole as opposed to the care of oneself. This model is used in most European countries.
And to think a couple countries actually have minimum income! No welfare and everyone contributes!
Just cause we differ on the way we handle things doesn't always make it a bad thing...just different.
By the look of things down there all parties are pushing for some kind of healthcare system..

 

[highway star]

Cheri, my experience has been the opposite of the article you talk about. I have a policy that doesn't cover office visits and I always get a discount. Usually, the doctor will drop a charge for something done during the visit. The last time that happened, I felt I REALLY deserved it. My 50+ male brethren know what I'm talking about! My last knee surgery, I had a policy that covered 80%. After about 6 weeks, we hadn't received a bill from the surgeon for the balance. We called, and they said that the insurance money would be fine.

 

[cheri1122]

Highway Star: you are fortunate indeed, as was I, once: if I hadn't had decent insurance coverage when I got a kidney infection that ended up costing me a kidney, (after two surgeries), I would have been bankrupted by the cost.
But lots of people aren't so fortunate, and when those people are working full time, that's just an outrage. Affordable insurance is becoming an oxymoron for too many working people. "Family values" indeed! Whose family, I'd like to know?

 

[Tennesseahawk]

The way I see health insurance is kinda like car insurance. It's something that is preventative. The ppl in the good ol USofA don't like to buy stuff that won't give them satisfaction NOW. And I guarantee, if car insurance wasn't manditory, most ppl wouldn't have it. Having said that, if ppl would forgo some bling for a bit of insurance, prices would go down, and there wouldn't be a need for government to get involved, except for those who honestly can't afford it.

"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know." - Kansas

 

[cheri1122]

TennesseeHawk: Health insurance would give me satisfaction now - the satisfaction of knowing that I won't be bankrupted by an illness, injury, or medical emergency. (The kidney infection sure showed me how it can happen, even to a healthy person, in fairly good shape).
I'm afraid I haven't any 'bling' to give up - I just have to hope for the best, huh?