A wave of new Expediters?

[whitey2]

The real problem is;
The products suck - there is nothing that is really competitive with the foreign cars, they are all stuck in this bigger is better.

The mid and upper management is too heavy for all companies, they need to trim upper management first.

GM still has the Sloan method of management which slows the entire company down but lacks the nerve to go back the aggressive marketing that it did under Sloan.

Ford Still has not followed through with the flexible manufacturing which if it would just take the advice of Mazda and work towards some real goals, the can reach the quality they need at the same time reducing the cost of each car.

Chrysler is finally moving to combine lines, remove products and trim production. They are the only company that can actually move forward with in the domestic market in the next few years.

ALL companies can promote the changes needed to keep production in the US, I think that really they want to but can't.

As for CEO's getting so much money, the stock holders are the only one's who should be concern with that, not the public. The cost of the CEO's pay is not much for each car produced. AND Henry Ford made more money being the president of Ford in comparison to today's CEOs but the cost of cars went down during his time.

No, recently the quality of the big three products are equal to the Japanese. It would be correct to say that the perceived quality of the US manufactured cars is less.
What an interesting thread, brings out all the union bashers.
C'mon folks, the UAW has some blame but it surely isn't all there fault.

 

[arkjarhead]

It may not be entirely their fault, but I know one thing. 90% of the people I saw so called "working" in an auto plant wouldn't last five minutes doing some real work like gets get done on the farm. I think the hardest part of working in an auto plant might be standing on the concrete. Other than that it looked like cake to me. A bunch of people getting paid way to much for doing way to little.

 

[greg334]

No, recently the quality of the big three products are equal to the Japanese. It would be correct to say that the perceived quality of the US manufactured cars is less.
What an interesting thread, brings out all the union bashers.
C'mon folks, the UAW has some blame but it surely isn't all there fault.

Perceived quality, real quality, you can't cut it any which way, the domestics can't/won't/unable to/approach the quality that the Japanese have been putting into their product.

The real fact about the equality of the product quality is not the raising of the domestic product quality but the lowering of the Japanese quality for the US market. You know that there was a time when the Japanese absolutely went nuts over a quality control issue and they felt that it was about losing face when an inferior product that had a problem was sold. They never had recalls, they quietly fixed things. For example, back in '89 3000 Hondas were stuck in the port of LA while 75 technicians changed out alternators because the failure rate was 1 in 550 in the batch of parts they tested. Nippodenso lost face for the mess, being the level was set at 1 in 3000 for failures on that model of alternator.

But now the Japanese have as many recalls as do the domestics, but their numbers are a lot less. Instead of recalling 4.5 million cars, they recall 150K. They know that the American consumer is used to poor quality products and they also know that the differences between the products are covered up at the dealer end of the business.

See I only blame the UAW for the 'gains' they made at the expense of the consumer, nothing beyond that. I think that Gettlefinger would do the UAW and the rank and file a lot of good if he and the union behind the Fair Tax instead of Obama or Hillary. The UAW is losing more market share in the labor market than the entire industry is with the domestic market.

 

[davekc]

I don't know if the UAW is all to blame, but when I see 5 people required to unload one pallet at a plant, that is a indication of a problem.

1. one to open the overhead dock door
2. the second holds a clipboard and writes the incoming order.
3. The third removes the load bars.
4, The forth is the tow motor driver
5. The fifth is the office guy that takes the order from the clipboard writer and takes it in the office to enter it in a computer.

 

[greg334]

I don't know if the UAW is all to blame, but when I see 5 people required to unload one pallet at a plant, that is a indication of a problem.

You mean like this;

http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/loading-dock/26874-three-stooges-dock.html

 

[kg]

Most of us have been subjected to a delivery at a uaw facility, and know the score.

Just think of the bright side of these new auto worker expediters, they will finally get a taste of their own medicine.

Just my opinion

 

[jasonsprouse]

There is no way someboby standing on an assembly line who puts a few screws into a door panel is worth $20.00/hr plus benefits.

The jobs in an auto plant are all "maxed out". Meaning that while an operator may only install a few screws, as soon as he installs those few screws the next operation is in place and he does it again. And again. And again.

I worked in Ford's Cleveland Engine Plant II, we worked on 18 second cycle times (200 engines per hour) and many jobs you had only a few seconds of "rest time" between each engine. Some jobs you literally never stopped moving until break time.

 

[RLENT]

Jason,

Yeah .... do that for a few days .... or a week ...... and it probably makes ya question whether $40 per hour would be worth it. Unless one has worked doing this type of fast-paced production line work, one really has no idea of how hard and demanding it can be. It can be pretty tough.

Although I really don't have any experience that compares exactly with that, I did work on a factory trawler fishing the Bering Sea. I worked down in the factory doing a variety of different things - sorting and cutting fish ("head and gut" fillets), freezer ops, etc. We ran three 18 hour shifts - so that at any time there were 2 on, 1 off. And some of the jobs were pretty much non-stop.

My shift started at 6 AM and ran thru midnight. At noon we got a 15 minute break in the dry room where we got a chance to have a coffee and eat snacks - mostly pastries and sweets (the dry room was the place where you changed into your work clothes - rain gear and boots - since you could not wear these in other areas of the ship) Then back to work.

At 4 PM we were allowed 1/2 hour - to get out of work gear and go into the galley to eat hot "lunch" (guess what item was ALWAYS on the menu at every meal ) .... then back out to the factory.

At 8 PM another 15 minute break in the dry room for coffee and snacks.

At midnight the shift ended and one could go eat a hot "dinner" in the galley - if you were willing to give up some of your 6 hours you had to sleep. Oh yeah - and if you wanted to eat a hot breakfast or take shower, you could do that in the morning BEFORE your shift started. So realistically, ya got maybe 5 or 5 1/2 hours of sleep per night if you wanted to have anything approaching a somewhat civilized existence.

The ship operated pretty 24/7 barring any mechanical breakdowns or really bad weather. By "really bad" I mean REALLY BAD - the ship would fish (drag the trawl net) and the factory would run in up to 30' swells. It was like working in a constantly operating, fast-moving elevator ... up and down and up and down (did permanent damage to my knees .....)

Anyways the real point was, the worst part of the job was cutting fish by hand - doing that for 4 to 6 hours at pop (and up to 16 or so hours per day) was grueling ..... by midnight my right arm and hand would be so "pumped" that I could hardly pick up a fork to feed myself. And they would be so swollen in the morning that I couldn't close my hand to clench and make a fist for probably 30 to 45 minutes after waking up and until after I had run my hand under fairly hot water.

While I in way no approve of the "let's see how little we can do" mentality that the union leadership seems to want to foster, I do appreciate that some of the rank and file can and do work under some pretty demanding conditions at times.

 

[DooWop]

Yes, there is a lot of abuse by the UAW in the plants, and that is hurting the Auto Industry. I saw similar abuse up close and personal by the steelworkers union in the steel industry when I drove for an owner operator, and now we have very little steel produced in Western Pa. Good bye 100, 000 jobs. Basically I think all of this frustration voiced on the forum is just a microcosm of the frustration American in general feel. We see a gov't that is completely unresponsive to the desires of the electorate, not only at the federal, but also the state and local level. Millions of manufacturing jobs have vanished and they are not going to return. Whether these losses are due to poor management, the federal government tax policies, a conspiracy by the moneyed elites to destroy the United States, or a combination of all three is a moot point. This leads me to a question that I would like to pose. Why is it that so much rage is directed towards the blue collar worker who takes advantage of the system in which he/she works to earn a high 5 figure/low 6 figure salary??? Isn't management responsible for product design and manufacture of that product? Yet we rarely hear a peep when some CEO or some CFO makes mega bucks, even though he/she has produced mediocre (or worse) results. (See Michael Eisner @ Disney)
As a case in point, one of the Pgh, ares's local television stations did an "expose" on public transit (Allegheny County Port Authority) bus drivers who have earned hi salaries. Nothing was said about the fact that these people virtually live in their busses, and work, work, work. Yet, they are made to look like criminals and worse, and not worthy of what they have earned. People: They have made the rules work for them, they did not make the rules. Sounds like jealousy to me. Comments???

God Bless

DooWop

 

[hondaking38]

ya i admit i am jealous..i would love to get 20.00 an hour and insurance for the whole family,plus vacation pay and retirement, for sitting on the dock complaining about truck drivers..plus get a 100,000 dollar bonus for quitting (early out retirement) i would be 100,000 dollars ahead of where i am right now!!!

 

[greg334]

Yes, there is a lot of abuse by the UAW in the plants, and that is hurting the Auto Industry. I saw similar abuse up close and personal by the steelworkers union in the steel industry when I drove for an owner operator, and now we have very little steel produced in Western Pa. Good bye 100, 000 jobs.

I agree that there is a lot of abuse. One thing I do blame the UAW for is the fact that they have for years protected people who abused the system which cost the consumer money in the long run.

Basically I think all of this frustration voiced on the forum is just a microcosm of the frustration American in general feel. We see a gov't that is completely unresponsive to the desires of the electorate, not only at the federal, but also the state and local level. Millions of manufacturing jobs have vanished and they are not going to return. Whether these losses are due to poor management, the federal government tax policies, a conspiracy by the moneyed elites to destroy the United States, or a combination of all three is a moot point.

The truth is, it is the fault of the consumer. They want cheap things and they don’t give a d*mn where they come from. The consumer of this country is most likely the most uninformed and ignorant (yes there is a bit of a difference) of any, any where on earth at any time.

Once you took pride in buying a product that said MADE IN THE USA. One time we didn’t have a throw away society like now where 90% of what is made can’t be repaired but recycled. I was reading a really interesting article about refrigerators the other night and it was pointing out that many smart people are actually not buying new fridges because of one thing, they are not made to be repaired. What used to be the old fridge in the garage (like my 1952 Gibson over my dad’s house) actually is not being refurbished to go back into the kitchen to be used in place of the Sub Zero that will only last 10 years at most. By the way the Gibson has not been unplugged since 1972 and has never been repaired since it was bought, contrast to the freezer we bought from Sears 10 years ago and lasted 8, the cost to repair it is $350 which is more than I paid for it and more than it cost to replace.

But also you threw in the federal tax system which may be the real cause of all of this.

This leads me to a question that I would like to pose. Why is it that so much rage is directed towards the blue collar worker who takes advantage of the system in which he/she works to earn a high 5 figure/low 6 figure salary??? Isn't management responsible for product design and manufacture of that product? Yet we rarely hear a peep when some CEO or some CFO makes mega bucks, even though he/she has produced mediocre (or worse) results. (See Michael Eisner @ Disney)

Why?

I think it directly has to do with their attitude. I only once heard a CEO say to the workers I make the big bucks because I produce (and he also said right after that “some of you will stay but a lot of you will go, so get the resumes polished up because I don’t care”) but I have heard a lot of auto workers in my lifetime rub into others faces about their job and the money they make. Many don’t want to see a wrench jockey make more than $40K a year and a lot of people don’t agree that any auto worker should be making $125K to $175K a year with all the bennies and this is in the Detroit area.


Of course management has the responsibility for the product design and he manufacturing, but they is the problem – the company is saying that they can’t compete with foreign cars but fail to tell the truth that the only reason that they can’t is that they don’t have a product that they can produce for the market that will sell. The blame is put on the worker and it really is not their fault but I will blame them if I have to pay for their health care outside of the product that they build.

What the CEO makes is nothing in comparison. That is really between the stock holders and the company but the auto worker’s wages has nothing to do with the stock holders or the ultimate person who foots the bill, the consumer.

As a case in point, one of the Pgh, ares's local television stations did an "expose" on public transit (Allegheny County Port Authority) bus drivers who have earned hi salaries. Nothing was said about the fact that these people virtually live in their busses, and work, work, work. Yet, they are made to look like criminals and worse, and not worthy of what they have earned. People: They have made the rules work for them, they did not make the rules. Sounds like jealousy to me. Comments???

Nope not jealousy but rather tiredness.

I for one am tired of hearing about the poor auto worker and how he/she can’t make it on their $124K* a year job. I am tired of hearing that the domestics can’t make it because of health care but when I look at their product line, I see junk, high priced at that. They still make their profit, they still post profits beyond belief but they also post corporate loses which are not in many regards real losses.

I am more than willing to buy a car made here but my caravan is a Canadian made vehicle which the last time I checked Canada is a foreign country and my Dodge Ram 2500 is made in Mexico – I would rather see them both made here by our workers.

I guess for me it is, are many of them willing to do what we do?

I mean sitting in the truck while it is freezing outside for a $1.85 an hour or $2.50 an hour?

I doubt it.

*the cost of an average auto worker who has been there for more than 3 years is $125K. The lowest average pay in the industry is a Ford worker and the highest being a Chrysler work at $175K average. These figures come from the UAW as reported by the Detroit News/Detroit Freepress/AP and WJR.

 

[Bobthestooge]

You people make me sick.greg334 your 125,00to 175,00 not true buddy. the most i ever made was 96,000. I was in skilled trades. and no body makes 40.00hr. wake up .

 

[greg334]

You people make me sick.greg334 your 125,00to 175,00 not true buddy. the most i ever made was 96,000. I was in skilled trades. and no body makes 40.00hr. wake up .

Dude,
Sorry to hear that you only made $96K, the truth is that you really make more than that. I think that you are in the upper percentile of wages but most of the figures were quoted for line workers, not skilled trades. If you don't believe me, go and write a letter to the president of the union asking him for the truth.

The News and Freep both published the figures, WJR reported them, and this is an all inclusive figure that cost the company (read consumer) for each UAW worker that is on the payroll. This means that health care, retirement, other benefits, training, and other things are included in that figure to determine the actual benefit/wages to the employee in true money figure. You can't say that the people who published the figures are wrong, they sourced the UAW PR office for the figures who are in control f that number.

Now if that makes you sick, here is something else that will make you even more sick - I actually don't blame the UAW or Auto worker for the problems of the industry like others do, I blame the car companies themselves for producing cr*p products that no one wants to buy and to have a dealer system that is archaic and does nothing to help the situation that they are in.

Produce a product that people will want to buy, don't play games selling the product, tighten up your dealer organization so people want to shop for your products and service that product as if you were driving it every day.

 

[Bobthestooge]

greg they will not tell people the truth about anythank .thats way i'm getting out. you sound like one of the old timers i use to work with .#@tch all the time about other people.... i know i made more then 96,00 but you can't send that can you .

 

[greg334]

greg they will not tell people the truth about anythank .thats way i'm getting out. you sound like one of the old timers i use to work with .#@tch all the time about other people.... i know i made more then 96,00 but you can't send that can you .

Bob,
Actually I am glad that you can make that, I wish you could make more and more people keep their jobs in the industry.

I really do mean that because we really all benefit from it.

 

[CharlesD]

In answer to the original query, I do anticipate a wave of hopefuls. Some will run out and buy a truck and many will run out and buy a van because we all know this is a great way to see all of the country and make a lot of money.

It is a great way to see the country. The only problem is that the whole country looks pretty much the same after dark.

 

[fastrod]

Yes it does look the same after dark but I head back home after every run so I get to see some of it in the daytime. I do find that this is a great way to see the country and make a lot of money.

 

[CharlesD]

Yes it does look the same after dark but I head back home after every run so I get to see some of it in the daytime. I do find that this is a great way to see the country and make a lot of money.

Yep, that is true. I've done pretty well recently and I've gotten to see a lot of places that I would not have seen otherwise.

 

[tblount]

Actually, they new automotive facilites are paying the workers an hourly wage that is relevant to their level of skill.

There is no way someboby standing on an assembly line who puts a few screws into a door panel is worth $20.00/hr plus benefits.

I bet there is not one single driver in this forum that would take that job... even for $40 a hour. The repetitive agony of the assembly line would kill the maverick spirit of a driver. Dodging 4 wheelers never gets motonous.

Anyway, these guys are actually WORKING... if you want to see the waste in the auto industry you should google "auto workers paid to do nothing" and read the articles.... I'll sum it up:

Getting paid to do nothing....

This is the Jobs Bank, a two-decade-old program under which nearly 15,000 auto workers continue to get paid after their companies stop needing them. To earn wages and benefits that often top $100,000 a year, the workers must perform some company-approved activity. Many do volunteer jobs or go back to school. The rest just sit around and clock time.

The Jobs Bank at GM and other U.S. auto companies, including Ford Motor Co., is likely to cost about $1.4 billion to $2 billion per year.

...Somehow I just KNOW this isn't happening in Japan, China and Mexico.

... it's true the health and retirement cost are killing the US auto industry... but it is mostly the government's fault. Our lawmakers take bribes (in the form of campaign contribution) from drug companies... who in turn mark up medicine as much as 500,000 %. They can get away with this kind of markup because they basically have a monopoly. What specific laws are being ignored?

The Sherman Antitrust Act

"Every person who shall monopolize, or attempt to monopolize, or combine or conspire with any other person or persons, to monopolize any part of the trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign nations, shall be deemed guilty of a felony"

Violations of this law are never more obvious than in the Oil industry. They make huge donations and inturn no real effort is made to develope alternative fuels... what's worse, with all the influence of the oil companies they haven't built a new refinery since 1973. You KNOW that if they wanted it done it would not be a problem.

Same thing with insurance companies... they have persuaded lawmakers to REQUIRE citizens to purchase their products... then they sit back and regulate the minute details of companies... by holding the threat of droping them (or raise their rates) if they don't goose step.

If you can't sell your product... then just pay off a few politicians and they'll make it mandatory... you see it happening with this global warming hype. Nasa says there is no global warming for the past 10 years.. yet the people who are selling million dollar "anti-global warming" technology has congress mandating industries buy it. However most industry isn't buying it.. they just move offshore and put more Americans out of work.

Unless citizens find a way to reverse this trend it doesn't look good for our future.

 

[Jefferson3000]

You people make me sick.greg334 your 125,00to 175,00 not true buddy. the most i ever made was 96,000. I was in skilled trades. and no body makes 40.00hr. wake up .

Bob,

With figures you gave, if you worked 50 weeks a year and took two weeks paid vacation, you were making over $46 per hour.

BTW, I always get friends who come to me when they need work and they want to do what I do. I always tell them, "If you can do ANYTHING else other than this, then do it." It's that notion of EASY MONEY. There is no easy money here. There is a lot of business strategy here.

If anyone is interested in this business, I would recommend they go and read all of those threads by newbies who who are upset about sitting in some remote place (freezing) for days at a time, just waiting for a load out. I'm not making fun of them for it. It's a very real and harsh reality when it happens for the first couple of times. Waiting 2 to 3 weeks for a run to be paid may seem hard, when it's you putting fuel in the truck today. The hardest transition most entrants into this field will face (auto plant or otherwise) is the transition that most will be making from being employed to being self-employed.