A wave of new Expediters?

greg334

Veteran Expediter
GM announced that they will be offering buy outs for every hourly employee that they have to reduce costs. In turn they will replace the workers with non-union workers paid at half the wage.

This is a result from the 'biggest loss' that GM posted ($39B)and follows Ford's offer to buy out their employees.

Health Care is one thing that has been brought up as a cost of building the product and they claim the Government needs to step in and pick up the tab but I still stand firm that they have to have a competitive product in the market first to sell to claim any disadvantage and not one of the domestic companies has a product that is really competitive.

On the lighter side of Auto news, Chrysler seems to know it is hard to maintain several car lines and thinks that moving Jeep into Dodge may be a good idea - you think? Jeep has lost a bit of sales (real sales) with their product line and the move may give better cross platform use and reduction in cost.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Just a note, the new workers will not be "non-union" they will be UAW members working at different rates of pay.

Yes, you are correct, there is a correction to the press release and the conference that GM had by the UAW. It seems that GM is trying to reduce cost and the UAW knows what is going on. In the past, even if the new workers have UAW representation, it will be a reduced numbers and the UAW is saying it will be less than 20,000 workers to take the offer.
 
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arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
IMO I think the UAW is the biggest problem the US auto makers have to deal with not health insurance. If the UAW went by the way side I think things would get better for the auto makers, but what do I know. The auto industry is a funny thing at times. I mean more and more "domestic" auto makers are closing plants, and more "foreign" auto makers are brining plants here. Look at the town where I graduated from high school. Marion,AR has a Hino plant that produces axles for Toyota pick ups. There was talk of putting another Toyota plant there, but it went to Tupelo,MS. Now the plant in Marion,AR is getting a $7 mil expansion done to it, and Toyota is talking about putting in a full assembly plant in Marion.

So why is it that outfits like GM are moving operations out of the country and buying out employees, and outfits like Toyota are moving operations into the country and hiring employees? Makes you think.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Ark,
It really is not the UAW that prevents the companies from designing, marketing and producing a competitive product.

See the thing is when you really look at the offerings of the GM or Ford, there is not a lot there for the price. The quality, even with GM has fallen more and they failed to invest into the plants here in the states and won't and they really are not on the cutting edge of anything with anything really new.
(for example GM has been promoting US's first production hybrid pickup truck but they fail to mention that the truck has been in production since early 2003 and the same with their false statements that they lead in electric car technology and hybrid technology without no electric car on the market or very few hybrids.)

In reality all of this has to do with market share but they don't at any moment fail to make money - don't let that fool you.

Here is my long rambling rant, be prepared.....

Once upon a time, a long time ago there are a fat lazy idiot auto worker who was laid off in flint. He decided he was not going to sit around and become fatter at the same time living off of his unemployment and UAW benefits but really do something - he became a 'film maker' and his name is Micheal Moore. He targeted one person to ask him why he was laid off and promised that he would help his beloved city. He also in turn how to edit film to make it look the way he wanted it to and get his message in it.

Well his target was Roger Smith, the company that employed his lazy a** and the film was Roger and Me. It had a lot of lies in it, some made up by Moore, and Moore refused to tell the truth that he met with Smith on more than one occasion.

BUT Roger Smith, the evil Roger Smith and the bigger evil GM was in front of the congress talking about real issues in the '70s that the country faced, and one thing that he was clear about was that the embedded taxes that was in every vehicle that is produce will kill off the auto companies and.....

.........the fact is, that Evil Roger Smith is 100% right.

The reason that a lot of movement from Ford and GM to complain about health care, wages and talk about closing plants is because of Taxes. They are moving to the enterprise zones on the Mexican border, they are moving to China and to India because those countries don't have the taxes we do. So it is not just because of the cost of labor in the car but in fact it is because the companies here can't afford to update their factories or even build new ones because of the complexity of the tax system we have here that prevents them from doing so. Honda, Toyota and others are building new plants and they are moving things into the country without paying a lot of tariffs and taxes on the equipment because 1 - they lease a lot of the equipment and the life cycle is short which means that they replace the equipment regardless what the condition is at a very specific time 2 - once they replace the old equipment with the new equipment, the old stuff gets sent back to the country it came from and the tariffs are covered as part of the cost of leasing the machinery. There is no inventory or equipment tax paid, there is a direct write off on the equipment and so on.

And if you don't beleiove me about the enterprise zones, when you are in the San Diego area, go to Otay Mesa and look around. See who is down there and if you deliver there, watch what is going on, ask some of them how much they make.

So in closing I would like to have all to go and read about the Fair tax. This is really the only way to save our manufacturing base here.

Oh by the way, Micheal Moore got fatter, he broke all the promises he made to Flint to help them and has become just another liberal talking head. You all should go meet him.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
In answer to the original query, I do anticipate a wave of hopefuls. Some will run out and buy a truck and many will run out and buy a van because we all know this is a great way to see all of the country and make a lot of money.
 

piper1

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Hopefully, if they are aware that the auto industry is in trouble (and THEY should be) and they know that expedite is still an auto sensitive business, they won't see dollar signs.

Ark is right to a point, if GM has to build in $900 to $1200 into the price of a car for legacy (largely health) costs it does affect what they can design into a car for a given competitive price.

Greg is right because the tax system doesn't favor GM re-investing profits (when they had them) because it's better to declare share dividends.

They whole mess shoulda been sorted out in the 90's but everyone, union, company and govt couldn't see the forest for the trees. Come to think of it, maybe they shoulda figured it out in the 80's when Chrysler almost went under....

I see it happening up here in Ontario soon. If the CAW and the gov't don't wake up, GM won't have a good reason to build cars here or more importantly, buy parts here. The largest employer here in my hometown builds frames for GM, they used to have 3000 employee's now they have 800. The owners of the plant (3rd in 6 years) have said they will close the plant in 2009 as they can't afford the $45/hr avg cost (wage and benifits) and an increasingly penny pinching GM
who likely won't renew the contract.
 

whitey1

Seasoned Expediter
Here in Indiana Toyota and Honda build plants in rural areas where their wages seem great but undercut union wages by at least 30%. Connect the dots, sports fans.
The "38 billion dollar loss" by GM is mostly due due to a "one time only"accounting change. Funny how they announce that and the job buyouts at the same time.
Well, they are a corporation and not a politician so we do not really expect any honesty do we? SMIRK
Any new GM retirees that want to try expeditng can buy my truck really cheap.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
On Gregs note about Dodge...yet another jeep model will be offered iwith a diesel engine that makes two now....it's the 6 cylinder thats in the 07 Sprinter...they say it's been around for about 30 years or so...a tried and true engine.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
On Gregs note about Dodge...yet another jeep model will be offered iwith a diesel engine that makes two now....it's the 6 cylinder thats in the 07 Sprinter...they say it's been around for about 30 years or so...a
tried and true engine.

OVM, the thing is that is not a Dodge. It is a Mercedes and I heard that relationship may end sometime in the future.

Remember a pig with pearls and lips stick on is still a pig. :p
 

dhalltoyo

Veteran Expediter
Actually, they new automotive facilites are paying the workers an hourly wage that is relevant to their level of skill.

There is no way someboby standing on an assembly line who puts a few screws into a door panel is worth $20.00/hr plus benefits. :eek:

The confusion between "Skilled" craftsman and unskilled labor came about as the result of greedy union bosses. The original "Trade" unions followed the "Craft Guilds", but they were geared toward respresenting true craftsman; highly trained and skilled workers. Some of those skills were required in the production of automobiles, but the union bosses saw an opportunity to gather the non skilled workers under the same umbrella. Now you have trained craftsman, such as an electrician, or plumber, or machinist working under the UAW umbrella right next to the guy who puts the tires on with an impact gun. The guy putting on tires thinks he should be paid the same wages as a skilled craftsman. Well, that is what his union rep wants him to believe. That is one factor that skewed the wage scale in the auto industry.

The competition leveled the playing field back to where it should be and now they can produce "Zero" defect cars and trucks, because they have the capital to invest in new production facilites as opposed to grossly overpaying unskilled workers.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
You also have the problem that the union won't allow the electrician to remove the faceplate to fix the light switch. Removing the faceplate isn't electrical, that's carpentry, so the electrician stands around for an hour at ridiculous pay waiting on the union carpenter to come remove the faceplate. Then the carpenter stands around at ridiculous pay waiting on the electrician to repair the wiring so he/she (the carpenter) can replace the faceplate.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Being a former production foreman at Firestone I can attest to Leo's post #12....An operator comes to me his machine doesn't work hasn't a clue whats wrong....I put in a work order in mechanics crib...WAIT....mechanic goes over to machine yup it's a slipping pulley. HE puts in a work order to lock out machine electrician WAIT.the elec. locks out machine. He puts work order back in crib. WAIT for mechanic again...OPPS but WAIT now he needs a pipefitter to disconnect air!! WAIT this crap goes on for 6 hours!! All the while a 20.00 an hour operator is sweeping floors (yeah right) lost production....for a slipped pulley!!! Unions have bent abit in crossover trades but I'll bet it's stll not enforced.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I think they have bigger problems looming. Sending new Chinese and India cars here in the 3k to 10k range is going to be a major obstacle to overcome.
 

Bobthestooge

Seasoned Expediter
I see you talking about some of the problem with the big three. you forgot one big thing .if you look at what the ceo make at honda or toyota (about 900,000 a year)then you look at the big 3 (starting at 5,000,000 a year plus bonuses).do the math
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
There is no way someboby standing on an assembly line who puts a few screws into a door panel is worth $20.00/hr plus benefits. :eek:

Well, actually, it's really dependent on HOW MANY screws he can put into HOW MANY door panels in a given hour ..... $20 + bennies might be CHEAP :eek: - depending on how productive he actually was.

...... I will give this though - most of the UAW types seem more focused on what the company can do for them ..... and how little they can get away with doing to get it. :D
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I see you talking about some of the problem with the big three. you forgot one big thing .if you look at what the ceo make at honda or toyota (about 900,000 a year)then you look at the big 3 (starting at 5,000,000 a year plus bonuses).do the math

While they are definitely overpaid, that is literally a drop out of a bucket of problems. Paying the CEO only a dollar a year wouldn't begin to solve the problems at the big 3. The far bigger problem is the UAW.
 

Bobthestooge

Seasoned Expediter
LDB if you think the uaw is the problem your are half right.the big problem is with both sides. people not doing there jobs.(uaw&big 3). and yes i'm in the uaw now. and i don't like the uaw no more
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
The real problem is;
The products suck - there is nothing that is really competitive with the foreign cars, they are all stuck in this bigger is better.

The mid and upper management is too heavy for all companies, they need to trim upper management first.

GM still has the Sloan method of management which slows the entire company down but lacks the nerve to go back the aggressive marketing that it did under Sloan.

Ford Still has not followed through with the flexible manufacturing which if it would just take the advice of Mazda and work towards some real goals, the can reach the quality they need at the same time reducing the cost of each car.

Chrysler is finally moving to combine lines, remove products and trim production. They are the only company that can actually move forward with in the domestic market in the next few years.

ALL companies can promote the changes needed to keep production in the US, I think that really they want to but can't.

As for CEO's getting so much money, the stock holders are the only one's who should be concern with that, not the public. The cost of the CEO's pay is not much for each car produced. AND Henry Ford made more money being the president of Ford in comparison to today's CEOs but the cost of cars went down during his time.
 
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