A Thought about Speed Limiters

nobb4u

Expert Expediter
Sorry but you've all ready bowed and STILL on your knees to FMSCA.....the seatbelt laws...HOS

And whats wrong with gay? BTW?

Nothing wrong with being gay just most people don't want to HAVE to advertise anything on their vehicle, I know I don't.

Also why is it that you have to have daytime running lights on all Canadian vehicle but the don't enforce that law on vehicles from other countries. And I do abide by the laws set forth in FMSCA, but they are laws pertaining safety. Seat belt laws are enforced on all vehicles so why not enforce speed limiters on ALL vehicles? If their speed enforcement officers did their job and enforced the limits there would not be a problem. I personally drive 100 KPH and obey their limits.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Nothing wrong with being gay just most people don't want to HAVE to advertise anything on their vehicle, I know I don't.

Also why is it that you have to have daytime running lights on all Canadian vehicle but the don't enforce that law on vehicles from other countries. And I do abide by the laws set forth in FMSCA, but they are laws pertaining safety. Seat belt laws are enforced on all vehicles so why not enforce speed limiters on ALL vehicles? If their speed enforcement officers did their job and enforced the limits there would not be a problem. I personally drive 100 KPH and obey their limits.

Aww yes the nonsense of politics....if I could explain away all the little quirks I'd be a rich man...*LOL*
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
If I'm not mistaken, the canadian HOS regs seem to be better. Someone correct me in my thinking but don't' they have more liberal sleeper berth (off duty) rules?

Also,

I have yet found a laptop program I can buy to change the ECM settings, anyone know of one? I have the adapters, I have the converter and I had to write a program to do the work using the stuff Cummins gave me.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
The way I see it....if the trucks that usually cross start and not cross...it'll make it even worse for the ones that stay over here and back up the system here....Depending on the carrier who can afford to lose 10-20% of their revenue at this time
 

spudhead911

Seasoned Expediter
For one, it's highly unlikely that plugging a code reader into the ECM port is going to damage the ECM. You can buy code readers at Autozone. I've never heard of a code reader damaging an ECM. The only way that's going to happen is if you plug it in while the engine is running and you get an electrical surge in there or something that fries the computer, but there are safeguards built in to prevent even that.

Two, if the ECM was somehow damagaed by a code reader, there is, like, no way that the damage can be traced to someone plugging in a code reader. If the ECM is still under warranty, then it's under warranty.


What if the code reader does damage the ECM, and don't say it could never happen, and the truck won't start because of it and you need to be towed to a repair shop. There's your proof that an unauthorized entity hooked up to the ECM. I'm pretty sure that would void the OEM warranty.

I know its a lot of if's but it just could happen, and I for one will not take that chance.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
What if the code reader does damage the ECM, and don't say it could never happen, and the truck won't start because of it and you need to be towed to a repair shop. There's your proof that an unauthorized entity hooked up to the ECM. I'm pretty sure that would void the OEM warranty.

I know its a lot of if's but it just could happen, and I for one will not take that chance.

Gotta do what ya gotta do.....whatever feels right to you...there is no right or wrong...just business decisions and opinions...:)
 

spudhead911

Seasoned Expediter
And besides..who cares about a few independent owners....stay in the US and suck it up.....

I see Fedex has put out the marching orders all trucks MUST have their ECMs set-up.....

Nope, all truck do not have to have their trucks set up. They want WG trucks to continue to go into Canada and have their ECM's set,but until they make provisions for and pay for my truck to be set and then reset I won't be one of them. And also pay for any damange done to my ECM by Canadian authorities hooking into my ECM. FECC can't make us set our ECM's or go to Canada. Remember we are contractors not employees. If they make us have our ECM's set that just might cross the contractor/employee line. They also can't void our contract for refusing to have our ECM's set. I am not refusing to go to Canada, I am refusing to have my ECM set. Could be interesting court case.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Nope, all truck do not have to have their trucks set up. They want WG trucks to continue to go into Canada and have their ECM's set,but until they make provisions for and pay for my truck to be set and then reset I won't be one of them. And also pay for any damange done to my ECM by Canadian authorities hooking into my ECM. FECC can't make us set our ECM's or go to Canada. Remember we are contractors not employees. If they make us have our ECM's set that just might cross the contractor/employee line. They also can't void our contract for refusing to have our ECM's set. I am not refusing to go to Canada, I am refusing to have my ECM set. Could be interesting court case.

I can see fleet owners having all trucks done for various reasons of logistics....I don't think they can force independants like Doggie Daddy or your self.
 

spudhead911

Seasoned Expediter
Many cdn truckers were asking similar questions re the reader and the ecm causing problems or alterations. The ministry reps at the truck show were quite explicit in their explanation that the reader output was not there it only read the ecm settings for the speed (I'm assuming it can read every setting). There is always a possibility that an official in a hurry could muckup the plug in and damage a pin or two.

Yes make use of your laptop and a cable to plug into the port and the software to alter the settings in the ecm to make the change just prior to crossing the border and change it back once in the US again. Note though the law does say you are not to be in possession of such capability in the vehicle so for your sake hide the software in a different name directory (folder) and not have the cable out handy but hidden in a compartment somewhere out of sight. Yes I know the argument of "I use it to fine tune the injection system and the turbo etc", but they won't readily accept such. I know a couple of guys who already have this capability and are making use of it and keep it well out of sight.

This is not as big a problem as many think. One minor benefit is the fuel savings. Yeah I know you've all heard the arguments about fuel economy. Well it's actually true, lower speeds do save fuel and yes even those 3 mph will as well in most buggies. Your best fuel mileage should be between 58-62 mph due to the wind force, gearing and engine rpm.
Rob


I shouldn't have to hide any software or cables, and thus break Canadian laws. I know my carrier will not allow us to break Canadian laws, and won't defend us if we do. I shouldn't even have to buy them software and cables to do so. I will not break a foreign countries laws by carrying and hiding this suggested contraband.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I shouldn't have to hide any software or cables, and thus break Canadian laws. I know my carrier will not allow us to break Canadian laws, and won't defend us if we do. I shouldn't even have to buy them software and cables to do so. I will not break a foreign countries laws by carrying and hiding this suggested contraband.

Again...your choice...and a smart one....:)
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
What if the code reader does damage the ECM, and don't say it could never happen...
I didn't say that. I said it's highly unlikely.

I also said I've never heard of an ECM being damaged by a code reader. Code readers are passive with regards to electrical output, and the electronics on the ECM are set up specifically to prevent electrical spikes that would fry the chips.

...and the truck won't start because of it and you need to be towed to a repair shop. There's your proof that an unauthorized entity hooked up to the ECM.
Yeah, an there's your rock-solid proof of who cooked the ECM, too.

I'm pretty sure that would void the OEM warranty.
Maybe, maybe not. It depends on how much information you give to the tow truck driver and the repair shop about the circumstances. Tell them you pulled over for inspection and "it just wouldn't start," and they have no way to prove that a code reader did the damage, unless the officer volunteers that information. But if the officer volunteered that kind of information, it would give rock-solid a whole new level of rock-solid and they'd absolutely be on the hook for the cost of the repair.

I know its a lot of if's but it just could happen...
Yes, I suppose it "just could happen", but take the number of cars and trucks in the world that have OBD and OBD-II ports (roughly 600 million), times the percentage of cars and trucks in the world who have code readers attached to them by individuals, shade tree mechanics and dealers on a daily basis (let's go with an extraordinarily conservative 10%, as many vehicles have code readers permanently attached, so 60 million), and then take that number and multiply it times the number of days in a year, and there's your chances of it "just" happening. 60,000,000 X 365 = a 1 in 21,900,000,000 (1-in-21.9 billion) chance of your specific ECM being damaged by a passive code reader. It's just about the same chances of a meteor landing on your house (1-in-[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]182,138,880,000)[/FONT], give or take.

Just havin' a little fun here. Don't get all rankled. :)

When reprogramming the ECM, to change the speed limiter settings, that's when the ECM is likely to be damaged if it's not done properly and with the proper static charge safeguards. It's like flashing the BIOS of a computer.

...and I for one will not take that chance.
Not much of a risk-taker, I see.

Chances of:
Dying from choking on food: 1-in-370,035
Serious injury from shaving: 1-in-6,585
Death from vehicle accident: 1-in-6,539
Serious injury from mowing the lawn: 1-in-3,623
Fatally slipping in bath or shower: 1-in-2,232
Dying within the next year from any kind injury: 1-in-1,820

I drive a van so this is not an issue for me personally, but if I were in a truck I would almost certainly not reprogram my ECM for Canada. If that meant no Canada, so be it. Upon entering Canada I am doing so with the explicit understanding that I will not break Canadian laws. Forcing me to limit the vehicle via the ECM is nothing more than Canada telling me right up front that they don't believe me.
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greg334

Veteran Expediter
1 - the code readers used by the OPP will not damage the ECM - period. There are a lot of bigger things to worry about.

2 - it is not an ODB-II system, so it takes a certain reader with the proper adapter to work, there are four plugs (which can't be used wrong) for trucks and only one for all the light trucks and cars. The system that is used is what is called a Controlled Area Network (CAN), trucks use J1939 protocol which replaces the earlier J1708 and J1587 protocols. By the way I think that the sprinter uses EOBD but since 2008 all vehicles were to go to a CAN system using ISO 15765 that eliminates five or six different standards that were allowed when this stuff was created. Trucks will continue to use the J1939 standard for a while.

3 - the software is not passive, it is active, meaning that it has to request the information from the ECM and wait for a reply in order to deliver the information to the user of the device. A 'data dump' is one of the commands on many of the ECMs but the problem is that there is a lot of info that the OPP should not have. The way these protocols and the ECM interact is very complex, more so than the ODB-II system and most of the engine companies will not release the codes to talk to the ECMs in the first place so there isn't a lot of cheap software out there.

4 - there are software packages available for mechanics to use, I have yet to see anything that will change the top speed of an truck engine for under $600 outside of what is sitting on my laptop.

5 - If FedEx is requiring anything, they should pay for it. I think this is uncalled for but again it is fedex and all of you are just contractors.
 

FIS53

Veteran Expediter
Spudhead while the law states you're not supposed to have anything handy to change the ecm settings, in reality you can have such things. No law against having them it's just the point of since they made a point in this law about having the ability available. We otherwise have no regs covering making changes to the ecm from factory specs for better fuel, longer injector spray or whatever settings you like to alter. Someone has mentioned this capability to the govt so they tried to stop it but unfortunately they can't.

I mentioned it so that you know if the cables and such are out in plain view the DOT boys are going to leap all over it. As with your scale boys we also have our overzealous chuckle heads doing inspections and therefore will make a big deal about it. In one of my trucks there are about 5 USB cables in the front for various devices. The cops look at it and wonder what they're all for, but nothing they can do unless for a radar detector.
Rob
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I can't imagine the OPP being involved except to escort you to a scale house or them call a rolling MTO officer that has been trained to take a reading...when they suspect you of speeding...
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Whatever the case I don't like what is going on. If FedEx, or any other carrier, requires us to speed limit our trucks I will have to think long and hard as to the wisdom of continuing in this businss. I still feel that speed limited a truck can and most likely will lead to accidents and deaths. I resent the idea that ON and QC and our carriers are putting us into the position of choosing between running what I feel is an unsafe truck or losing our sole income. Thank you one and all. The "you are too stupid to follow a basic law so we WILL control you bunch" wins. Another loss for those of us who believe in personal responsibility. Layoutshooter
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I see Layouts response in the Fedex forums...about parking a few 100 trucks at the border,,,non starter Joe....who really cares about a few expedite trucks and some freelance broker LTL's? No one....it won't hurt business anyways...
 
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