But the keys are, a HAZMAT endorsement is required in order to haul HAZMAT. Look up that requirement, without making any assumptions regarding definitions. Then, look up the definition of HAZMAT (hazardous material), noting carefully the precise wording. Look these up in the actual code of federal regulations, as the Compliance Handbook is not designed to replace the actual regulations, and for many things only gives brief details which are not as comprehensive as the regulations themselves.
Teams Needed! Earn up to $140,000 per year! We need established teams. Join a family business operating under FCC's White Glove division. Paid weekly by direct deposit. We pay 40 to 42% based on experience & we have an aggressive bonus program paying up to $20,000 per year based on $20,000 monthly revenue to the truck. Stay out on the road ... Apply Today!
Have to enjoy some good debate-
Thank you Turtle and ATeam for being able to debate a topic and disagree on a topic without taking it personally or making personal attacks. This is very informative for all of us, and your demeanor is very impressive. I wish more people on the forums (and around the world) could debate topics in such a professional, responsible manner!!!
... This is very informative for all of us, ...
Again, precise language, things like prepositional phrases.
This is actually some pretty dry stuff and I would have thought everyone would have lost interest in the reg-speak long before readers got this deep into the thread. Seeing that at least one reader is continuing to read, I will continue to build my case, but only as time permits. I am deep into two other projects these days. Time spent here is time away from those.
For now, I will offer this definition of HAZMAT that I came across today. That makes at least two to consider; the one Turtle cites and this one:
49 CFR 171.8
Hazardous material means a substance
or material that the Secretary of
Transportation has determined is capable
of posing an unreasonable risk to
health, safety, and property when
transported in commerce, and has designated
as hazardous under section 5103
of Federal hazardous materials transportation
law (49 U.S.C. 5103). The term
includes hazardous substances, hazardous
wastes, marine pollutants, elevated
temperature materials, materials
designated as hazardous in the
Hazardous Materials Table (see 49 CFR
172.101), and materials that meet the
defining criteria for hazard classes and
divisions in part 173 of subchapter C of
this chapter.
Supporting my point -- that if it is listed in the Hazardous Materials Table, it is HAZMAT -- is this language from the above definition:
"The term includes ... materials designated as
hazardous in the Hazardous Materials Table
(see 49 CFR 172.101), ..."
Regarding the applicability of 49 CFR 171, from which the above definition comes, see this.
More to follow as time permits.
Phil: I'm not seeing where your point is supported by the snippet you quoted - it says "the term includes [ellipse] materials designated as hazmat" but it doesn't follow that every substance listed in the hazmat tables is hazmat in every instance.
... Hazmat is hazmat for the truck driver when it requires placards, [and the appropriate endorsement] not otherwise.
Like Turtle, I have transported substances in a cargo van that would be classified as hazmat in larger quantities, but were not so classified in the amount shipped. Again: it depends on the weight.
Don't assume that it's hazardous material solely because it is on that table.
My point is, and I will eventually get around to detailing it, to get at what the definitions are and how they apply. First you need to know the definition of Commercial Motor Vehicle. Then the definition of HAZMAT. Then the requirements for hauling HAZMAT. Once you know those things, then everything dealing with HAZMAT will be in the proper context.
Phil: you said it yourself, in your third paragraph: "what hazmat is for a truck driver is something else"
Because it's what hazmat is for a truck driver [that would be us] that concerns us, not what it is for the rest of the world.
The definitions stares the Table if Hazardous Materials is where you will find the items designated as Hazardous Materials, and makes no comment whatsoever about whether or not every item on the list is so designated. One must make an assumption in order for that to happen.
The weight makes a difference regarding the requirement to placard the van. It does not make a difference in defining the substance as HAZMAT. Nor does the weight make a difference in requiring the driver to have a HAZMAT-endorsed CDL. The presence or absence of placards determine that.
Note that one thing triggers another. If the vehicle is placarded, the HAZMAT-endorsed CDL requirement is triggered.
If the weight is over 1,001 lbs (in this hypothetical case), the vehicle placard requirement is triggered.
If the item is defined as HAZMAT, the need is triggered for the driver to inspect the shipping papers, note the weight, determine the placard requirements and verify that his or her CDL endorsements (or lack of them) are appropriate for the load.
Finally, with cargo vans and HAZMAT, logging requirements and commercial vehicle status comes into play, but that is van stuff and I'll leave that to those who know it best.
I agree with this, Turtle. And, at present, I admit that I am making the assumption you describe. Cheri made the same point.
Now, if I can show you with the regs that my assumption is based in fact (and I intend to do exactly that), and that the regs themselves state that every item listed in the Hazardous Materials Table is HAZMAT by virtue of them being listed there, what would you say?
Teams Needed! Earn up to $140,000 per year! We need established teams. Join a family business operating under FCC's White Glove division. Paid weekly by direct deposit. We pay 40 to 42% based on experience & we have an aggressive bonus program paying up to $20,000 per year based on $20,000 monthly revenue to the truck. Stay out on the road ... Apply Today!