Yep time for a strike - thanks GM!

[buckeyewildman]

to be honest the suits are probaly just as bad as the the union people but i have been to probaly most of the so called american auto plants then i have also gone to alot of toyota plants the difference is like night and day at least from my experience at the toyota plants they have always been helpful and nice sure there are always your exception of a a## h#@# but i,ll take a load to toyota or honda over gm or ford any day

 

[cheri1122]

Of course they will - in Britain, it's 10 times more than the hourly worker. In Japan, it's 11 times more. In America, it's 500 times more!
I have to wonder why that fact doesn't cause outrage, like the union payscale does.
Both union & management have gotten far too big, and so far from their original purpose, that they're no longer credible at all. Both sides have become a disgrace to the notion of earning a decent living in America, IMO.

 

[cheri1122]

If the suits at the Big 3 hadn't laughed Mr Deming out of their offices, back in the 50's, telling him to take his goofy ideas to Japan instead, (when "made in Japan" meant CHEAP & worthless), the shoe would be on the other foot today: American vehicles would be first quality, workers & management would consider themselves allies, on the same team, with the same goal, and 'made in Japan' would still mean JUNK. (and not the kind that floats)
It wasn't the union who told Mr Deming to take a hike, it was the suits, and they've been making bonehead decisions just like it ever since, while getting RICH doing it.
I have to give them credit for one thing, though: people sure do get worked up over what the union guys make, while ignoring the ludicrous money being thrown at BAD management.

 

[Crazynuff]

>Well like many of you, I do alot of auto parts. I wonder if
>anyone in those unions care how much or if my family will be
>damaged by this strike. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, maybe I should go in
>as a scab and work to suppliment my income.
>
>Swifty Now in Russell, Il.
They don't care how much their own families are damaged . I was in GA when the Atlanta Overnite terminal voted the union in . Overnite just pretty much abandoned that terminal . A couple of months later picketers were standing in the cold crying how rough things were going to be for their families at Christmas . Didn't GM lose $2,000 on every vehicle it sold the past year ? Hasn't Ford mortgaged everything they have to stay in business ? And Chrysler ? Cerebus is not in the least concerned about a strike . That will be a quick restructure . Shut the whole thing down and sell it to the Chinese investors that will eventually own it anyway .

 

[RichM]

I will never forget the time at the Buick plant in Flint when I had to wake up the F/Lift guy and he got poed and told me to come back when he was on overtime.

 

[arkjarhead]

Rich,
You wanna know what's so funny about that? I had a similar thing happen to me at the Chrysler Plant in Sterling Hts. What's even more funny is the whole way there from mississippi dispatch kept calling me and checking on my progress then when I got there I had to wait 4 hours to unload.

 

[mrgoodtude]

The entitlement mentality is the problem, saw a guy crying about 15 years with the company and for what??
I will tell you what, be responsible for your own future thats what..
Who TF owes you?
You are a grown ##### man so go invest in Mutual funds or bury a money jar either way I don't really care about your petty little whiny ##### argument about what you are entitled to.
The union back in the day was important for change (I guess) but just like government the corrupt and the greedy are the power brokers hiding behind a cloak of justice for the poor American worker.
Entitlement is the banner waved with the slogan I have earned it.
##### on you UAW, you incubated a monster you can't feed and I can't pay your stupid tax...
BTW I hauled my last automotive load over a year ago..
Hot desperate and needed yesterday when I arrive the union did not allow for an unload till 15 min after clock in.
Please excuse my passion but this is a perfect example of whats wrong with the country today and if a slow on the uptake kinda guy like me can see the obvious what does it say for the rest of the country?
America is being punked by the greedy and their minions are to ##### stupid to realize they are part of the problem.
Mike

 

[geo]

one time in lower part of oh/pa on 70 went into to a union plant
that was on strike, and drove up to line and ask who was in charge of pick it line as i needed to talk him about crossing the pick it line
to pick up a load load going to al, told them that this is first load all week that i had and had a truck payment to make and a house payment coming due and if i didn't take this load i could lose everything and said how sorry i was to cross there pick it line and guard ask were they giving you any trouble said no
they all most took up a collection for me to make the truck payment and house payment

and also said look at how much you are making them pay to get the job done

just have to be fast on your feet

 

[Jack_Berry]

striking because the company will not make a verbal committment to produce volt cars in the usa after the cobalt is gone is dumb. just keep striking and watch the jobs for gm go south like ford hasd already done.

maybe a few of the union folks should look at their own towns and wonder if shopping at walmart is such a good idea. i doubt they would see the corelation between cheap dry goods and cheap cars.


Jack Berry

 

[arkjarhead]

I refuse to shop at wal mart. Not while there is a lil guy in town. I try to do all my business with the small business owners in the community. That's how you build your community up, but people don't seem to care about that anymore.

 

[greg334]

You know what the biggest issue for GM is health care - $51 billion worth of unfunded health care for the retirees, so my solution is to just cut them loose completely if it is a big deal that prevents them from competing in the home market BUT it is not the real problem.

The overall cost of the building of any GM vehicle is less than $3000 when you adjust the wages to real wages under the DOL guidelines - which means that an average worker would only make $45,000 a year instead of the $125,000 (before anyone says anything this includes every benefit that the company pays for).

So back to what the problem is - they can't compete in the home market with manufactures who build a similar product at a near same price. It has nothing to do with profits - GM for example has pulled the same thing it has in the past crying about losses but in reality it shifts money back into obligations and shows a serious corporate loss at the same time fooling the public that it is tanking and needs help. Again as I have been saying GM and Ford both have the same problem they can't compete because of their product line - get products that will sell, not lease, against Honda and Toyota.

Now Cheri pointed out the same old class warfare issue, management makes X compared to labor - too bad. It comes down to who actually steers the company, labor or management? Management does and unless a company is a public entity, like the government, who really cares what the CEO of the company makes unless they do a KMart to the business, they serve a important purpose of keeping the company afloat.

As for the strike, I got the press releases from the UAW and can't feel sorry for them at all. As much as I feel they need to take a real stand for their rank and file, they also need to step up their leverage to stop helping GM from moving things south and west and strike until GM moves more back to the states.

 

[cheri1122]

"Class warfare"?! Is that what I was suggesting? I don't think so - I think "class warfare" is just like "Bush haters": a convenient label to dismiss criticism, without addressing it's merits.
Who cares how much management makes, vs how much they accomplish? When no one does, what you get is lots of extremely well paid incompetents, who drive the company backwards, blaming their failures on other factors, and walk away with millions.
It would be great to see some outrage over the fact that jobs that pay a decent wage, and include decent benefits, that the average American worker can actually afford, are pretty rare these days. My grandfather raised a family on a job like that, and my father did too, but why is that an almost impossible dream, these days?

 

[LDB]

With the average union worker making well over 6 figures combined annual salary and benefits at all 3 of the big 3 I don't see how that isn't adequate compensation. I agree the suits are almost all overpaid, by exponential amounts. That doesn't change the fact the unions are killing the goose and will have nobody but themselves to blame when there are no more golden eggs. It's fine to be the devil's advocate however along with that even all those advocates should be looking for the union to get back to their jobs and not run more of the jobs out of the country.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB
OOIDA Life Member 677319, JOIN NOW
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[theoldprof]

Hey guys, why don't you tell us how you really feel about the unions. Just remember that the big bucks added to the cost of US cars includes pensions and bennies for retired hourly people, it also includes pensions and bennies for salaried people. Not just the highly paid suits, but the line foremen, engineers, clerks, plant security, etc. The hourly union people aren't the only ones driving up the cost of doing business.
:+ :+

 

[swiftyexp]

Well a lot of that has to do with Union Leaders and "Suits". They are like lobbiest, and Politians. They take care and pad there pockets and really do not give a rats tail about you or me. Just like those unions leaders who are promoting this strike don't really care about those guys.............I don't know about anyone else but I HATE going to a facility thats Union. Unions drive the cost of business to go up and production to go down, thats just me and my opinion

Swifty*** Waiting on a Load in Russell, Il

 

[jasonsprouse]

>It is tough to be a competitor when you pay the guy with the
>broom 40 dollars and hour. Then they want job security and
>wonder why they move plants to Mexico.
>Car lots currently have plenty of inventory, so the union is
>saving GM a fair amount of money.
>
>
>
>
>
>Davekc
>owner
>23 years
>PantherII
>EO moderator

The average UAW member isn't making $40 "and" hour. The big auto plants pay in the mid-$20's, the smaller plants are lower.

The guys that push brooms (cleaners) bid those jobs by seniority. That's the way the union plants work. Everyone gets paid the same (within about $.80 / hr) and you work your way up from horrible jobs to better jobs as you approach retirement.

Outsiders never see the hard jobs, the real jobs. Those areas are restricted to employees wearing eye and hearing protection, sometimes hard hats and heat protection. Those jobs never get shown in the newspaper, a picture of an inspector in a clean white coat looks better than what the majority of the jobs really are.

 

[davekc]

As Gregg mentioned, 125,000 a year per employee certainly works out to be way above 20 something an hour. That does include the benefits in that number.









Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[redytrk]

Exerpt From CNN Money...
So to demonstrate toughness to their own members, they let them go out on strike. The weather is still pleasant in Michigan this time of year, and another opportunity for some hunting and fishing is always welcome.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/09/24/magazines/fortune/gmwalkout.fortune/?postversion=2007092415

 

[Jack_Berry]

aj,

i/we are with you. walmart just creeps us out for some reason but there are cars in the parking lot with "support unions" or proud member of union ----" on the bumper and the lot is always full in a place that does not pay full time to the floor workers nor to my knowledge offer medical bennies to the part timers that keep big box mart going.




Jack Berry

 

[arkjarhead]

Sam Walton would have a coronary if he could see what his little 5 and Dime store has turned into today. He wouldn't be proud that his business was running other businesses out of town. That's his kid's doings. Sam Walton watched his business grow, but he was a humble man. He died living in a trailer in Northwest Arkansas driving an old Ford pickup. This guy wasn't greedy, but his family is. Wal Mart is a joke. They don't want to hardly hire anyone with any good sense. My wife is almost through with her college education and tried to get a job and they said she wasn't qualified. How can you have 3 years of college behind you plus 4 years working in bookkeeping and accounting and be less qualified than the high school drop out with no experience? After that I don't shop there. I do my grocery shopping at Kroger. Yes they are a big store, but everyone I know who works there gets a decent wage for our area and the full time people have benefits.