Why They Will Never Ban The Van!!

blizzard2014

Veteran Expediter
Driver
So, you guys want to "BAN THE VAN!" You want to force the Cargo Van drivers to run log books, pull through scalehouses, and get annual vehicle inspection reports. This is about the dumbest thing that i've ever heard in my life. The reason why "shippers" pay higher rates to expediting companies is because they want to have that one or two skid load delivered faster than a "big truck" can get it there. The Cargo Vans are the only vehicles on the road that can beat a big truck, straight truck, and an LTL truck. Cargo Vans can run the legal posted speed limits for four wheelers in every state, they do not have to stop at scalehouses "ie., they never run the risk of being placed out of service for a log violation, nor will they ever be late delivering load because some pencil-necked DOT officer spent three hours going over their truck with a pair of white gloves!" This means that a Cargo Van can get a load to a consignee location hours before any regulated truck can; and they can do it legally.

Moreover, if the DOT were to require logging in the Cargo Van, it would only hurt the expediting industry. It would hurt the industry because Cargo Vans do not make enough money per mile, nor do they get enough miles in a week to allow them the expense of shutting down for 10 hours at a time. It simply wouldn't work; unless the expediting companies switched to all teams. This really won't work eather, as there are not enough miles given to Cargo Vans to be able to justify two people driving a van.

Well, that being said. What happens now? Will shippers start paying Cargo Van drivers higher rates, will they pay Straight truck rates to have one or two pallets moved from one state to another in a timely manner? I don't think so. Your one, two, and even three skid loads will just be placed on a LTL carriers truck. Or better yet, I will go out and get me a tractor with doubles and book every two and three skid load up that I can find and piggy-back them across the country, giving them to local courier companies to deliver to the consigness. All while I am getting paid a very good rate, and providing a cheaper solution for shippers who can't get a Cargo Van to cover their freight because there are no Cargo Van drivers left. Because DOT regulations will rob what little profit there is left in the Van freight.

See what i'm getting at here. The cargo vans bring in freight ahead of the bigger trucks, which makes the customer happy. The customers depend on our vans to get stuff there even faster than the bigger trucks. If you take that away from them, the rates aren't going to go up in your bigger vehicles. The shippers will just find a cheaper way to get it done. The only real attraction that a Cargo Van has for shippers is the fact that it can get a load there faster than any other sized vehicle. Once you remove that attraction, the shippers will lose time, so they might just decide to get the load moved by an LTL carrier. Or even worse, get it done on NLM for next to nothing. In any case, this is not going to effect me, because I do have a valid class A CDL with all of the endorsements on it. If I have to go back to logging and scaling, I will just get me a Tractor and lease on with fedex and make the real money (or at least make it a lot faster than I can in a Cargo Van).

Also, someone said that requiring Cargo Vans to log would weed out the retirees. I think it would do quite the opposite. If regular guys "guys who are not retired and use expediting as their primary source of income" have to log; they will not be able to make any money at it. They will quit, or move up into bigger trucks and only those who can afford to run under DOT regulations "will weather the pay-cut and remail viable in a Cargo Van! Guess who that group of is going to be? You guessed it; the retirees! Why would a retiree have to move up into a bigger truck when they already have one or two sources of income coming in, excluding their expediting money? I really don't think DOT cares about these little Cargo Vans. There is not very much money to be made off of them with regards to tickets. Plus, when is the last time you heard of a Cargo Van running off the Dan Ryan expressway and killing x amount of people. Oh, wait, let me think; never. In any case, be carful about what you wish for, it might just be more then you wished for.
 
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arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
I don't know if you realize this or not, but 90% of the "Ban the Van" talk is a joke. The person who coined the phrase is a Van O/O himself, so I seriously doubt he wants to see the van banned. I think he just wants to have a good time and poke a little fun.
 

blizzard2014

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Yo, Kangar. How things going for you in the truck? Ar you making any money in your big truck right now? I might be climbing back into one myself here pretty soon. The vans are good, just takes a long time to make money in them. I may be getting into "drive away" for Coldiorn Company in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. They pay pretty decent for truck recoveries and also to move new trucks from the dealer to various major trucking companies.
 

dhalltoyo

Veteran Expediter
Blizzard,

Basically, I agree with the bulk of your post.

One glaring error, that could mislead a new driver, is that several states require ALL commercial vehicles to log and some even require you to scale.

Additionally, it is not overly common, but the DOT officer (I didn't see the need to make a negative comment about their shirt size) can and does conduct Level 1 inspections on cargo vans.

Finally, most top tier carriers require ALL trucks in the fleet to have semi-annual inspections.
 

geo

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Navy
ceva requires a dot insp and a state insp for any van that works for them

also if you carry 1,000 lbs or more you have to log
also ny and al require you to log

in va if it say all com vch you must cross the scales
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Also a DOT officer can stop a van anytime he/she choses....

David...twice a year....? does 3state require you?

When was the last time a Com. van went into a VA scale? Not me never..heck SD is 8,000 gvw I never go in...Ala? nope don't do that either....
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
I've spent 15 years operating a commercial cargo van in all 48 states and Canada. Over a million miles of interstate driving and never crossed a scale or kept a log. It simply isn't an issue unless mandatory HOS comes into law. I can understand how a nervous rookie might think he/she needs to cross a scale, no way a veteran would make that choice in my opinion. Don't tell me I'm just lucky to not get busted. Luck doesn't last over a million miles. BTW, Panther requires all drivers to comply fully with all DOT requirements. If crossing scales were required, the Big Cat would demand it.
 

arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
I think the companies have to require some sort of inspection regardless of what type of equipment it is. If not there would be more junk on the road than there is now. Personally if I ran a company whether a vehicle stayed in the fleet would be on a case by case basis. If it was older, but still looked good, was safe, and passed DOT inspections it could stay on. Once half the paint is gone, there is duct tape and bungee cords holding stuff on all over, and it constantly failing DOT inspections it would be out of the fleet. Every company has an image to reflect. Yes, a clean truck doesn't get it there any faster, but customers tend to trust a company with a professional image more than one without one.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Blizzard, I'm confused: you say that shippers pay for the trucks to expedite, cause LTL can't get it there fast enough, then you say you could just run a whole bunch of LTL's (and hook up with local couriers to deliver, with all the logistics involved in that deal) and make more money, if you were forced to log. Huh? :confused:
PS You also said that shippers won't pay the straight truck rate to move 2 or 3 pallets - you are wrong about that, my friend, because I haul 2 or 3 pallets in a D unit quite a bit.
 

hondaking38

Veteran Expediter
i gotta agree with blizzard a 100% (because i am a van driver) nice post....if ever i can figure out how to rate ya i will...
 

CharlesD

Expert Expediter
PS You also said that shippers won't pay the straight truck rate to move 2 or 3 pallets - you are wrong about that, my friend, because I haul 2 or 3 pallets in a D unit quite a bit.
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Shippers are still paying the rates, but the carriers (at least some of them) have convinced drivers that there is a "cargo van" rate that they get for hauling those loads. You drive a van you get that rate. I know good and well that I do quite a few one or two skid loads for way more than the "cargo van" rate a lot of carriers are giving their drivers.

Either that or you have carriers bidding against one another for the cargo van loads and the prices go down pretty low on those loads. What's the shipper paying for that load and what did the broker pocket? The bottom line is that the shippers are paying good money for expedite, even the loads that can fit in vans, and the driver with the larger truck will often get more money for hauling that same load. When you start booking your own loads, you notice quite a few things. Sure, you see the bidding go pretty low on Panther or NLM for cargo van loads and that creates the illusion that those loads are cheaper, but do you think that Panther or NLM are charging the shipper less just because someone bid that low on the load?
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
When I drove a cargo van, I was paid the CV rate for hauling one or two skids. Now I drive a D unit, and I get a D unit rate for hauling 1 or 2 skids. That was my point: shippers WILL pay a higher rate, when the freight is hot. If the freight is that hot, and the D unit is closer, they will pay for it. (Or if it needs to go on a dock high truck, at either end).
 

arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
Well then... According to some very knowledgeable members of this forum, you're not with a "top tier" company. Shame on you!

That wasn't the point I was trying to make. I think everyone knows that will some people will pass on maintenance if there are no checks in place. Heck, some do it even with the checks in place. Whether you were referring to me or not it doesn't matter. I wasn't downing a certain carrier, I was only commenting on how I would do things.

I agree with you Cheri. I have hauled quite a few loads that could have easily fit in a van or Sprinter and I got paid the D unit rate because the load had to go and I was the only one there. I picked up one such load in Kansas City once. It was going to New Jersey. I got just inside Ohio with it where I swapped with a Sprinter due to HOS. The load weighed 36 pounds. When it came time to swap they backed their Sprinter close to the end of my truck, I pulled the skid to the back, and I transferred the load. Nothing to it. All the while the husband and wife team (Vietnamese I think) keep saying Redneck veddy, veddy, strong. It was all I could to keep from laughing.Mainly because the whole deal skid and all only weighed maybe 60 lbs, but it looked heavy. They seemed to be good people. They kept calling me "hey redneck". I guess they missed the "political correctness when dealing with Southerns" class.We talked for a few and then they were on their way. They might have heard the term used somewhere and thought they were giving me a compliment. I've learned to go easy on people from other cultures that are trying to learn ours.
 

mjolnir131

Veteran Expediter
i agree having tons of vans sitting all over waiting to take a small load is a great bussiness plan,no dought about it.

thatsaid it's not drivers that want you gone nor more regulated it's the states that do they are losing tax and fine revinue,in there eyes not mine i hate the leechs just as much as the next guy

i forsee them clamping down faily soon on vans and goose-neck pick-up that hual for profit.

is it a good thing yes and no, we all have seen trucking ventures that have been taxed out of exsistance thats very bad. will more regulation make the road safer? possably and possabley not.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Well then... According to some very knowledgeable members of this forum, you're not with a "top tier" company. Shame on you!

yeah well..if we can ever get a definition of what "Top Tier" actually means....
HOWEVER....E-1 does have us send in a monthly report on our maintainance activity.
 
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