Why ron paul should not be president

[greg334]

I can't look at that link there RLENT, at least not today. My connection is VERY bad.

Well sorry about that.

Greg, who ever said I was a "conservative"?

Well you seem to go with the conservative flow - from "don't touch ss and medicare" to the outrage of people on welfare. You don't seem to accept the libertarian/constitutional view point by siding with entities that take property rights away for the 'greater good'.

This Nation is faced with MANY challenges. They are exciting. They provide great opportunity perhaps more opportunity than we have seen in more that 50 years.

Where?

I mean the challenges we have, have always been with us - no different than say 1911. The excitement of those challenges seem to be embedded in the fabric of our country and our ability to meet these challenges head on (albeit limited because of our political retardness as a population). I think we have a great opportunity to go forward and do great things but somethings have to change, one is ridding ourselves of our debt and removing the idea that people deserve.

Our current president has no clue how to handle opportunity. Everything is a "crisis". Everything is a "problem" for "government" to fix.

EVERY president from FDR to Obama has used the "crisis" moniker to do things which sometimes is used to move us from opposing it to welcoming it. Since the idea that we are a democracy has been implanted into our little minds, we allowed the idea that government can solve everything to happen, no one is exempt from that.

Wrong, ALL wrong.

True but I ask what ideas that Ron Paul likes that you also like. The reason I ask is as I explained, to see how much of a Conservative you are or are you a libertarian or a constitutionalist?

It takes excitement to convey to the general masses just now lucky they are to be living in a time where there is such great opportunity.

No it does not. What it takes is putting us into a serious situation like the depression to show us how lucky we are. Until that happens, we can't comprehend the luck we have. It is like the idea we have poor. Most don't get that there is help for those, it takes time and patients but because people "want" a solution quickly, it doesn't come and they just don't get the idea that they don't need to hold onto the ipod or the laptop but need to feed themselves and family (the iPod thing actually happened).

Opportunity?

Yep I agree there is a lot of opportunity but it matters if a person wants to shed the idea they deserve first to take advantage of that opportunity.

In many ways I wish I was 20 again. There are SO many ways for a young person to make a major difference to the Country. Inventions are needed now more than ever. That leads to more ways to MAKE MONEY than we have seen for a long time.

I wish too but I also wish I could return to 1940 and start there at 20. Inventions will come, but our problem is we are not striving for anything other than survival as individuals. I was going to post something that I wrote about mutual aid societies and the discussion I had with one of the UK MPs about their system, which I think we need to seriously look at for here. BUT we used to have them, they worked for the most part and the idea that people helping people seems to be the direction we need to go towards and get rid of part of the "I'm special" thing.

The nay sayers need to go. We need vigor, excitement, vision.

It seems that the nay sayers are the ones who are the realists in some things. I am very negitive about a lot of things because I was brought up to see the positives through the negatives and look for things that we can improve on. The vigor, excitement and vision comes from passion which is part of perseverance that seems to be lacking in most of the professional politicians.

Mr. Paul is yesterday and dry toast. He cannot rally the people to fix what needs fixed. I don't believe that Mr. Paul has what it takes to convey that message.

Then if that was the case, why does he have a large following that is consistent. I don't mean like Gingrich who speaks of one thing or another to get people to his side or Romney who speaks like a traditional conservative liberal - but as someone who seems to be speaking how people feel about the situation that the government has gotten into, the need for small government, the need for serious debt reduction, a need for a serious contraction of the military to rebuild it as a defensive force and other things.

I don't believe that ANY of the candidates on the Republican side do and we KNOW that Obama does not believe that.

Well they don't, outside of Paul and the former Cain, the rest of them have little chance in actually speaking outside the box with ideas that can work. Gingrich has nothing and Romney is attacking Gingrich, we don't need that, we need to have someone tell us what the problem is without dragging the administration into this and tell us what they see can work to fix it.

Opportunity, real opportunity, undermines his position and chance to rule.

I don't agree, it isn't the opportunity that does that for Obama, it is the success of those who apply themselves to getting there.

 

[layoutshooter]

" You don't seem to accept the libertarian/constitutional view point by siding with entities that take property rights away for the 'greater good'."


You keep saying this, I say 'prove it". I don't ever side with anyone who takes away private property rights. You are dead wrong.

I cannot be "pigeon holed" into any of the accepted "political" groups. I have my beliefs and subscribe to no others.

I am also aware that there can be multiple sides to every issue and it is more than possible for more than one side to be correct on any given issue. THAT is where leadership comes in. Of course, you don't believe in leadership.

 

[cheri1122]

I can't look at that link there RLENT, at least not today. My connection is VERY bad.

Greg, who ever said I was a "conservative"?

This Nation is faced with MANY challenges. They are exciting. They provide great opportunity perhaps more opportunity than we have seen in more that 50 years.

Oh yeah: opportunity to learn all about poverty, from a first person POV. That's exciting, alright.

Our current president has no clue how to handle opportunity. Everything is a "crisis". Everything is a "problem" for "government" to fix.

Not everything is a crisis - Congress can ignore corruption and corporate malfeasance for centuries, easy.

Wrong, ALL wrong.

It takes excitement to convey to the general masses just now lucky they are to be living in a time where there is such great opportunity.

What opportunity? Learn how to fill out an 18 pg application for food stamps?

In many ways I wish I was 20 again. There are SO many ways for a young person to make a major difference to the Country. Inventions are needed now more than ever. That leads to more ways to MAKE MONEY than we have seen for a long time.

I'll call my daughter right now and let her know: all she has to do is invent something, and she can MAKE MONEY! Great news!!!

The nay sayers need to go. We need vigor, excitement, vision.

Bring out the pompoms and repeat after me" poor is rich, struggle is ease, hunger is satisfying, etc

Mr. Paul is yesterday and dry toast.

Dr Paul is wisdom incarnate, even if he isn't buttery enough for your taste.

He cannot rally the people to fix what needs fixed. I don't believe that Mr. Paul has what it takes to convey that message.

I think he can and he does.

I don't believe that ANY of the candidates on the Republican side do and we KNOW that Obama does not believe that.

I don't KNOW that, how is it you do?

Opportunity, real opportunity, undermines his position and chance to rule.

Obama won the last election, he's been 'ruling' for years, lol. Real opportunity could only be a good thing for him - he'd be a hero, if he could make that happen.

 

[greg334]

You keep saying this, I say 'prove it". I don't ever side with anyone who takes away private property rights. You are dead wrong.

OK I hope this explains the impression I get;

I own 80 acres which I bought to build a home and farm. I don't really care about harvesting wildlife that resides on my property nor care much for that stinky marsh that was created by the builders of the freeway two miles away.

So I rip down the trees that sit in the field that I intend to farm, I have a few hundred yards of dirt to fill in the marsh and start to build my home.

Do you agree that it is my land and I can do what ever I want as long as it doesn't harm my neighbor

or I need to be prevented in doing so by having to deal with a law that prevents me

or do I have to have an environmental impact study done and get permits to fulfill the need of the DNR and so on?

I cannot be "pigeon holed" into any of the accepted "political" groups. I have my beliefs and subscribe to no others.

Well...

If this family was so broke that they could not afford food how could they afford cell service? The girl was posting on her Facebook account and texting during the standoff. If you can afford a total luxury you can afford food. If you cannot afford food you cancel the luxury.

Try only paying your taxes that are required for Constitutionally legal programs, welfare is not one, then see how long until armed Feds come after you.

Now that may not be a great example but it shows me a couple things, not bashing you by the way. The first thing is that you have not been in the situation (I understand many won't let them be in the situation) but it is the common position of those who feel it is a hand out to many. The second thing is the tax thing. I understand the point but this is another common conservative speaking point.

I am also aware that there can be multiple sides to every issue and it is more than possible for more than one side to be correct on any given issue. THAT is where leadership comes in. Of course, you don't believe in leadership.

Well I do believe in leadership, I can tell you who would be a great president but it would be so far fetched to you. I also know that leadership isn't just acquired, it is earned and learned. As the uniform doesn't make a soldier, being a leader doesn't mean being in the forefront of people.

Now back to my question - which Ron Paul's ideas do you like and/or agree with?

Let's take a few;

His position on Taxes - As President, Ron Paul will support a Liberty Amendment to the Constitution to abolish the income and death taxes.

OK that's all fine but I believe that we need taxes in some form to actually run any federal government. So he says the following - While a Flat Tax or a Fair Tax would each be a better alternative to the income tax system, Congressman Paul believes we would have to guarantee the 16th Amendment is repealed to avoid having both the income tax and one of these systems as an additional tax.

And But there is a better way. Restraining federal spending by enforcing the Constitution’s strict limits on the federal government’s power would help result in a 0% income tax rate for Americans.

So What do you think? agree with this crazy old coot?

Let's try another;

National Defense -

Today, however, hundreds of thousands of our fighting men and women have been stretched thin all across the globe in over 135 countries – often without a clear mission, any sense of what defines victory, or the knowledge of when they’ll be permanently reunited with their families.

Acting as the world’s policeman and nation-building weakens our country, puts our troops in harm’s way, and sends precious resources to other nations in the midst of an historic economic crisis.

Taxpayers are forced to spend billions of dollars each year to protect the borders of other countries, while Washington refuses to deal with our own border security needs.

So I think this is a better solution than say "bomb the p*ss out of those who disagree with our demands"

Think about what his position is, and then think about things being said about Iran. Say Iran does let loose, what would our being there help out when they may strike first our bases and wipe out our troops?

Here's another one;

With our gun rights under constant attack from our own government and the anti-gun United Nations, as well as the threat of rising crime due to our country’s economic woes, Congressman Paul believes it has never been more important that our President be 100% committed to defending our God-given right to keep and bear arms.

Wow, guns and God in the same statement.

Actually I think that if someone wants to count on someone to protect our rights, maybe counting on Gingrich or a governor from a liberal state could be the biggest mistake we make.

So take a look for yourself and tell me what you think, I'm not trying to bash you or set you up but rather see if you are thinking the way many of us are thinking.

Ron Paul 2012 Official Campaign Website

 

[layoutshooter]

It amazes me just how people are so conditioned to fail. So unable or unwilling to see the multiple opportunities that exist. How sad. Reminds me a lot of the lack of "gumption" in the Soviet army.

We are all the sum of our own actions. Everything that we are, or are not, is the end result of what we choose to do or not to do. Each individual is responsible for their own success and failures.

That goes for everything from economic success, success in family life, education etc etc etc.

I am an expediter because of my actions in high school. Because of choices I made as an adult. I got here to this point in life by my own action or lack of action. I have no one to blame, or thank, but my self. It is called accepting responsibility for one's actions. Strange concept these days it seems.

 

[davekc]

I believe in helping people out that really can't hold a job because of disabilities and that type of thing. I think it is a good thing to throw folks a lifeline as people can fall on bad times. What I am against is this year after year paying people to do nothing. I hear all the complaining but most are clueless as to what poor really is until they step out of this country.
Absolutely clueless.
Foreign labor here takes the jobs they refuse to do because it isn't 20 dollars per hour. There are jobs all over the place but they aren't qualified or they think they are too good.
Many foreigners work and live here and still send money back home. The only difference is they aren't buying big screens and all the other non-essentials.
BTW....all kinds of jobs in the Dakotas.

 

[RLENT]

I can't look at that link there RLENT, at least not today. My connection is VERY bad.

Got it ..... well, I hope you get a chance later, will remember, and will actually look it. It is about a 5 minute song and music video by indie band Golden State, in support of, and in tribute to, Dr. Paul and our men in uniform.

It is a reflection of Dr. Paul's ability to inspire others to action - it isn't the only one .... by far.

Many of those people are quite young .... which itself a rather interesting thing: a 75 year-old man can inspire so many young people.

But of course, that's not the only demographic that he appeals to - as one can clearly see, if one looks at video of his events.

Greg, who ever said I was a "conservative"?

You certainly seem to espouse some positions that might be considered conservative.

Our current president has no clue how to handle opportunity. Everything is a "crisis". Everything is a "problem" for "government" to fix.

Wrong, ALL wrong.

I don't disagree .... but understand that the current resident of the Whitehouse is not the only occupant who has done, or will do so, no matter how much lip service they pay to claiming that they would do otherwise.

Interestingly, the premise above is in direct contradiction to the very principles that Dr. Paul espouses and preaches.

We need vigor, excitement, vision. Mr. Paul is yesterday and dry toast. He cannot rally the people to fix what needs fixed. I don't believe that Mr. Paul has what it takes to convey that message.

LOL ..... I'm afraid that your opinion flies in the face of the reality of what is actually occurring.

If you only look to the lamestream media to inform your views on the matter, it is quite likely that you will draw an incorrect opinion about it.

Paul has been relentless in taking his message of peace, liberty, and freedom to the people (despite all efforts of the political establishment and the lamestream media to prevent it) - he has a strat that is working - as evidenced by his growing support.

I can most assuredly tell you, from my own personal experience, that grassroots political movements are not built overnight - I know Greg will know what I'm taking about here. It takes a lot of effort and the right actions to make it happen.

Paul is very lucky that in he has attracted enough folks who are very politically savy about how to run a campaign and build a movement. He could not do it alone - but his vision and ability to excite others plays a huge part in making it happen.

In terms of vigor, you apparently (and mistakely) see a frail old man ..... I however see an elder statesman ..... with plenty of vitality, who I, more than 20 years his junior, would be hard-pressed to keep up with. He can' t run like he used to - as a result of having both his knees replaced (something I'm familiar with, as my own father had it done - it's very painful in terms of recovery - and my dad never really did), so he rides a bike instead(regularly)

He is the only member of Congress to have ever hit a home run out of a major league ball park - and he was no spring chicken when he did it (in his mid-40's):

Take a look at this more recent one - it's from the 2011 Congressional baseball game. Have a look at them arms .... don't look like no dry toast to me ... more like hard wood:

You and I should be so lucky to be in that kinda shape at that age

 

[layoutshooter]

I will have better internet tomorrow. I am so far out in the boonies here that they still have to bring in bottled electricity.


I don't watch the lamestream news. All I go by is what I see and hear. He puts me to sleep when he speaks. Any one can inspire those who agree with them. Most can inspire the weak if they say want the weak wants to hear. A LEADER can inspire those who are strong, who do not always agree, by passing on their excitement.

I have never heard him say anything in such a way that it just blows my socks off.

I am not telling anyone not to vote for or against him. Just stating why I don't like him.

The baseball does not impress me. Now, if he shot 100% out of a layout boat on ducks I might be impressed!

He may be in shape etc, it does NOT come across when he speaks. Not for me and that is all that counts when I vote. My opinion.

 

[RLENT]

I am an expediter because of my actions in high school. Because of choices I made as an adult. I got here to this point in life by my own action or lack of action. I have no one to blame, or thank, but my self. It is called accepting responsibility for one's actions. Strange concept these days it seems.

LOL ... I have to tell ya: I can really appreciate what you're saying ..... since it pretty much describes my own personal situation

If only it were the case that we were all born with wisdom .... rather than having to live to acquire it ........ it often comes at a very steep price, in terms of what could have been ....

 

[layoutshooter]

LOL ... I have to tell ya: I can really appreciate what you're saying ..... since it pretty much describes my own personal situation

If only it were the case that we were all born with wisdom .... rather than having to live to acquire it ........ it often comes at a very steep price, in terms of what could have been ....

I am glad I was not born with wisdom. The best part of life is the struggle itself. It is the pleasure of taking on the world and winning or losing by your own efforts. No one should have that taken from them. You win from the effort, not the result.

 

[RLENT]

I will have better internet tomorrow. I am so far out in the boonies here that they still have to bring in bottled electricity.

Kewl.

All I go by is what I see and hear. He puts me to sleep when he speaks.

Any one can inspire those who agree with them.

The interesting thing here is that he is inspiring people ... to look.... to consider .... to think ... who don't necessarily agree with him, at least initially.

And many probably don't fully agree with him on everything.

However, people can smell true honesty, adherence to principle, and character a mile off ..... and it's probably why many are so devoted in their support.

And it may be, in some cases, why some hold him in such disregard (not saying that's true for you) - the guy is incorruptible.

Most can inspire the weak if they say want the weak wants to hear. A LEADER can inspire those who are strong, who do not always agree, by passing on their excitement.

You know, the interesting thing is that his message, is the sort of thing that one would think that the (so-called) "weak" would not want to hear - since it is largely a message of personal responsibility for one's own condition .... and personal responsibility for the nation which one is a citizen of ....

I have never heard him say anything in such a way that it just blows my socks off.

Different strokes for different folks I guess .....

I am not telling anyone not to vote for or against him. Just stating why I don't like him.

Fair enough.

The baseball does not impress me. Now, if he shot 100% out of a layout boat on ducks I might be impressed!

LOL ....

He may be in shape etc, it does NOT come across when he speaks.

I will grant you that he is not always the most polished and articulate orator when speaking .... for me, I choose to look past that - to the ideas ...... probably because when I'm trying to talk to anything more than one person at a time I'm not either.

I'm willing to cut him a little slack.

 

[RLENT]

I am glad I was not born with wisdom. The best part of life is the struggle itself. It is the pleasure of taking on the world and winning or losing by your own efforts. No one should have that taken from them. You win from the effort, not the result.

Again, I would largely agree: it's not the destination, but the journey to get there that has the most value and worth .... it makes you who you are ...

 

[layoutshooter]

I understand what you are saying. I listen to the ideas. However, if he cannot inspire others to embrace those ideas they are useless in the practical sense. Without a host of others to implement those ideas that is all that they will remain. Keep in mind, without a congress made up of those who believe in his ideas, he can do nothing.

The "package" he presents is important. While I may agree with SOME of his ideas, I can see that he is not able, at least so far, to show me that he can project his ideas onto others.

I have heard people speak that have put me to sleep. I have heard others that had me jumping up in my seat with excitement. Often they had VERY similar messages. To bring this Nation out of it's "funk" is going to take, flair, excitement AND the good ideas.

 

[Pilgrim]

Front view of Senator RAND PAUL (born 07Jan1963) at the 2011 Congressional Baseball Game for Charity. Still in good physical shape at age 48.

2011 Congressional Baseball Game for Charity1 ...3738394041... 130

 

[RLENT]

Front view of Senator RAND PAUL (born 07Jan1963) at the 2011 Congressional Baseball Game for Charity. Still in good physical shape at age 48.

Fair enough - I'll accept correction from you on it .... afterall, no one can be wrong all the time

I actually wondered a little bit about it (due to the hair color) before I posted that picture - but was hard to tell for certain looking at only his back with a cap on

 

[RLENT]

I understand what you are saying. I listen to the ideas.

Good.

However, if he cannot inspire others to embrace those ideas they are useless in the practical sense. Without a host of others to implement those ideas that is all that they will remain. Keep in mind, without a congress made up of those who believe in his ideas, he can do nothing.

Oh I don't think that's actually the case at all. It certainly true that he will need some support from those that believe as he does ..... but it might be pretty surprising if he is elected, how many would have a "come-to-Jesus moment" and discover they now have religion .... and actually possess a spine .....

However, in terms of political calculation, one should never underestimate the tendency of politicians for political self-preservation .... they do often have a habit of paying attention to which way the wind is blowing ....

The election of Dr. Paul would largely be a total repudiation of both the establishment parties ... something that would cause total fear on the part of the inside the beltway crowd ..... at least for awhile .....

I think they could expect him to use the bully pulpit regularly ..... and he would certainly be a bully to many sacred cows ....

The "package" he presents is important. While I may agree with SOME of his ideas, I can see that he is not able, at least so far, to show me that he can project his ideas onto others.

IMHO, you're not really looking then .... (or maybe just not looking in the right places)

I have heard people speak that have put me to sleep. I have heard others that had me jumping up in my seat with excitement. Often they had VERY similar messages. To bring this Nation out of it's "funk" is going to take, flair, excitement AND the good ideas.

I think strictly adhering to the Constitution and rolling back the authority and power of The State is a good idea ... perhaps the ultimate one .... and it excites me .... YMMV ...

I suspect it may excite others as well

 

[layoutshooter]

We shall see, if he cannot win Michigan with an open primary, sort of a "mini" general election, he cannot win in Nov next year. In Michigan he can draw from independents, Republicans and ticked off Democrats.

We shall see. I expect an "also ran" there for him unless he decides to start campaigning. So far his campaign is wimpy.

 

[greg334]

... and of course nothing I asked gets answered.

 

[RLENT]

... and of course nothing I asked gets answered.

He may be thinkin' 'bout it ....... givin' it careful consideration ... or could just be busy (mentioned electrical issues in another thread)

In any case, I hope he does eventually reply, as I'm interested in his answers myself.

 

[layoutshooter]

OK I hope this explains the impression I get;

I own 80 acres which I bought to build a home and farm. I don't really care about harvesting wildlife that resides on my property nor care much for that stinky marsh that was created by the builders of the freeway two miles away.

So I rip down the trees that sit in the field that I intend to farm, I have a few hundred yards of dirt to fill in the marsh and start to build my home.

Do you agree that it is my land and I can do what ever I want as long as it doesn't harm my neighbor

or I need to be prevented in doing so by having to deal with a law that prevents me

or do I have to have an environmental impact study done and get permits to fulfill the need of the DNR and so on?

Every one has the right to do with their land as they chose. As I have always said.

I understand the need for better land usage. I believe that this earth was a gift from God and that Man has a sacred responsibility to preserve it. It is MORE than possible to accomplish both. One has to want too. It is a personal choice.


Well...



Now that may not be a great example but it shows me a couple things, not bashing you by the way. The first thing is that you have not been in the situation (I understand many won't let them be in the situation) but it is the common position of those who feel it is a hand out to many. The second thing is the tax thing. I understand the point but this is another common conservative speaking point.

Yes, I was in that position. When I first got married. We waited to have kids until I was settled in a job. When that happened we started. The same day we found out my wife was expecting our first I got laid off. I paid for health insurance for her and the baby. I worked odd jobs where I could. Hunted and fished for food. Filled out job applications daily. ETC ETC. The, unlike many today, when I had a chance at a job, I TOOK IT even though it meant moving over 3000 miles across an ocean to another country. If we end up without work again, I will cope, again. Strong people do.





Well I do believe in leadership, I can tell you who would be a great president but it would be so far fetched to you. I also know that leadership isn't just acquired, it is earned and learned. As the uniform doesn't make a soldier, being a leader doesn't mean being in the forefront of people.

Now back to my question - which Ron Paul's ideas do you like and/or agree with?

Let's take a few;

His position on Taxes - As President, Ron Paul will support a Liberty Amendment to the Constitution to abolish the income and death taxes.

OK that's all fine but I believe that we need taxes in some form to actually run any federal government. So he says the following - While a Flat Tax or a Fair Tax would each be a better alternative to the income tax system, Congressman Paul believes we would have to guarantee the 16th Amendment is repealed to avoid having both the income tax and one of these systems as an additional tax.
[/COLOR]
And But there is a better way. Restraining federal spending by enforcing the Constitution’s strict limits on the federal government’s power would help result in a 0% income tax rate for Americans.

So What do you think? agree with this crazy old coot?

Abolish the income tax, repeal the the 16th. Put in a 15% National sales tax. Abolish the IRS. Slash spending. Live on what comes in.

Let's try another;

National Defense -

Today, however, hundreds of thousands of our fighting men and women have been stretched thin all across the globe in over 135 countries – often without a clear mission, any sense of what defines victory, or the knowledge of when they’ll be permanently reunited with their families.

Acting as the world’s policeman and nation-building weakens our country, puts our troops in harm’s way, and sends precious resources to other nations in the midst of an historic economic crisis.

Taxpayers are forced to spend billions of dollars each year to protect the borders of other countries, while Washington refuses to deal with our own border security needs.

So I think this is a better solution than say "bomb the p*ss out of those who disagree with our demands"

Think about what his position is, and then think about things being said about Iran. Say Iran does let loose, what would our being there help out when they may strike first our bases and wipe out our troops?

This is a VERY complicated problem. I believe we need to start to "disengage". I also believe that it requires a slow, measured plan. Someday we can sit down and I will go into it deeper.

Here's another one;

With our gun rights under constant attack from our own government and the anti-gun United Nations, as well as the threat of rising crime due to our country’s economic woes, Congressman Paul believes it has never been more important that our President be 100% committed to defending our God-given right to keep and bear arms.

Wow, guns and God in the same statement.

Actually I think that if someone wants to count on someone to protect our rights, maybe counting on Gingrich or a governor from a liberal state could be the biggest mistake we make.

So take a look for yourself and tell me what you think, I'm not trying to bash you or set you up but rather see if you are thinking the way many of us are thinking.

Ron Paul 2012 Official Campaign Website

It is not always the basic idea of Paul's that I disagree with, it is the idea that this can all happen overnight. It has taken 500 years to get into the mess we are in. It cannot be fixed in 2. It is exactly that sort of short term thinking that got us here. Unless we do this right, this time, it will never happen.

I don't believe Paul can pull it off, unless I start writing his speeches for him.

I don't know if this is the questions you wanted answered. It has been a VERY strange day.