Why ron paul should not be president

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Pilgrim - very entertaining ! - keep 'em comin' - that is ...... if you can stand to ....

RLENT,If I may ask, you are under no obligation to answer,but I was just wondering,why such an ardent ferver to seek out and post items that cast Newt only in a negative light.rather than try a balanced honest light.( Over 10 posts with links,all negative with a pillsbury doughboy comparison thrown in.:rolleyes: See The real Newt gingrich thread.)to search for the complete truth about NEWT instead of settling for,or worse promoting a skewered truth. This concept of rooting against someone(NEWT)rather for someone mystifies me. In the case of Newt Gingrich,why would you do that? This is sarcasm. This isn't a serious question. :D
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
If I may ask, and you are of course under no obligation to answer, but I was just wondering... why such an ardent fervor in the effort to seek out and then post here only the items which portray Ron Paul in a negative light, rather than trying to find a balanced honest light, to search for the complete truth instead of a settling for (or worse, promoting) a skewed truth?
It's a fair question, and I don't mind answering. To paraphrase the leading conservative radio voice, I am balance. We aren't acting as news reporters here, and what we say doesn't have to be "fair and balanced", or objective. My recent posts about Ron Paul are no more biased than those made by his supporters that sing his praises to the heavens with no mention of the possibility of him having some negative issues. For an example of "ardent fervor", I suggest checking out the thread someone pointed out involving the "12/15 Debate Analysis" - specifically posts #2 and #4 about Michelle Bachmann.

On the flip side, one might ask a similar question of the Ron Paul supporters:
"Why such an ardent fervor in the effort to seek out and then post here only the items which portray Ron Paul in a positive light, rather than trying to find a balanced honest light, to search for the complete truth instead of a settling for (or worse, promoting) a skewed truth?"
This concept of rooting against someone, rather than for someone, mystifies me. It's like those who actually root for a new movie to fail at the box office. Why would they do that? In the case of Ron Paul, why would you do that? This isn't sarcasm, it's a serious question.
I'm not necessarily rooting against Ron Paul - I just don't think he's the best available candidate for the GOP nomination. People seen to be evaluating Gingrich and Romney by examining all their positives and negatives to arrive at a final conclusion - why not do the same with Paul?

By elaborating on the newsletter questions (which were originated by somebody else) and the John Birch Society business, I'm bringing to light the potential problems that will surely be introduced by his political opponents if he becomes a serious national candidate. The "baggage" of every other candidate - especially Gingrich - has been brought out for inspection and there's no reason Paul should be exempt from this process.

Since this is already a too-long answer to a short question, here's one more thought: disagreement with a political position does not equate to "hate" - period. Anyone (obviously not you) who tries to portray it as such is simply relying on a lame emotional response because they lack a substantive counter-argument. There's no reason to gratuitously attack somebody's personal integrity, honesty and intelligence because of a difference in politics. I would ask "why can't everyone just play nice?" - but we all know that ain't gonna happen ;)
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Pilgrim: if you believe that support for Ron Paul is primarily from the 'fringes of society', you must be getting that from the MSM and the Republican establishment party line, because they're trying very hard to convince everyone [including themselves, probably] that it's true - but it's not.
I find support for Paul among a broad cross section of people, especially the younger ones, and they [we] are not the fringes of society, by a long shot.
We are just sick of the same politicians, the same promises, the same practices that put us in such terrible shape, and we want it to change. That's what got Obama elected, and it's what I believe will get either Paul nominated and elected, or another 4 years of Obama - none of the Repubs are anything other than clones of the 'typical' Republican candidate, and we're not impressed.
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Pilgrim: if you believe that support for Ron Paul is primarily from the 'fringes of society'...
I didn't say that Paul was getting his support PRIMARILY from the "fringes of society". My point was that he seems to attract these supporters moreso than the other candidates.
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
Careful, Rent...don't want to get banned again. You just posted a picture of a rectum on the board. I didn't think that was allowed.

--

You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Thanks for the answer, Pilgrim. I do somewhat disagree with the "no more biased than those..." in that those who sing his praises tended to sing the praises of his ideas, and those who deride him tend to do so on a personal level with personally targeted pejoratives. There's balance, and then there's balance.

Not that other candidates have been free from personal criticism, but critics of Paul seems to do it on another level. It actually reminds me of those who were critical of Dr Atkins and his diet, to the point of fanatical against the man, as if what someone else eats is supposed to be relevant. With Paul, they say he is lunatic fringe in his support, not to be taken seriously, yet go to great lengths to disparage him, seriously, often using fringe to do it.

As for the post debate analysis. LOL yeah, I agree. After reading it, my first thought was that I'm glad the analyst didn't have a trunk full of guns and was on a load delivering to Des Moines. Maybe not hate, but there certainly seemed to be a certain level of animosity seeping through the text. :D
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Thanks for the answer, Pilgrim. I do somewhat disagree with the "no more biased than those..." in that those who sing his praises tended to sing the praises of his ideas, and those who deride him tend to do so on a personal level with personally targeted pejoratives. There's balance, and then there's balance.

Not that other candidates have been free from personal criticism, but critics of Paul seems to do it on another level. It actually reminds me of those who were critical of Dr Atkins and his diet, to the point of fanatical against the man, as if what someone else eats is supposed to be relevant. With Paul, they say he is lunatic fringe in his support, not to be taken seriously, yet go to great lengths to disparage him, seriously, often using fringe to do it.
Glad to oblige. True, the fringe supporters are sort of a fringe issue - but the Democrats would make it a major issue. But the ideas need to be discussed and his foreign policy positions alone can provide plenty of discussion - pro and con. However, I'd still like to find out more about the newsletters; are there complete copies out there somewhere, and if so let's see them. If the contents are just being distorted, then showing them in their full context should make that problem go away. However, I'll agree that discussions of the newsletters and JBS speeches creep more toward the personal - but anyone that runs for a national political office should be ready for that. In the not-so-distant past some of the GOP candidates were disparaged for making speeches at Bob Jones University. These campaigns aren't for the faint of heart.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I think as Paul gains some popularity, the information on those papers will likely come out. No different than Gingrich. Once you are in the spotlight, there will be some that come after him.
Again, it won't be whats in them, it will be the perception that will determine how they are judged.
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
I think as Paul gains some popularity, the information on those papers will likely come out. No different than Gingrich. Once you are in the spotlight, there will be some that come after him.
Again, it won't be whats in them, it will be the perception that will determine how they are judged.

The difference is that Gingrich is a scumbag, while Dr. Paul is the only honorable man in Washington. Of course, that hasn't stopped the left, including the left in the GOP, from assassinating characters in the past.

--

You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
I didn't say that Paul was getting his support PRIMARILY from the "fringes of society". My point was that he seems to attract these supporters moreso than the other candidates.
One could infer (or imply, depending on the conversation is structured) all sorts of things from that. One of them might be:

Because freedom, liberty, self-determinism, are inherent aspirations in all men (if even only for themselves, and no others) his message (in that respect) actually has a widespread appeal - possibly wider than any other.

Further, one could easily argue on that on that basis (and assuming no other disqualifying views or positions), he is actually the most electable candidate (at least among those who are not substantially benefiting/profiting from the status quo)

Now before you argue the point that his views on foreign policy (which are essentially "national security" related) disqualify him, please consider very carefully, Mr. Franklin's words with respect to that issue.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Now before you argue the point that his views on foreign policy (which are essentially "national security" related) disqualify him, please consider very carefully, Mr. Franklin's words with respect to that issue.

Would that be:

Distrust and caution are the parents of security.

or...

He that's secure is not safe.

or...

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

???
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Would that be:

Distrust and caution are the parents of security.

or...

He that's secure is not safe.

or...

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

???
Any of them work for me (and are relevant), but the last one is, IMO, the most appropriate.
 
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