Why no celebration?

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Once government is involved, progress stops. The answers will likely come out of a garage in some small town. The idea that a few hundred people, and arguably not the brightest our society puts out, are better to solve problems than 300 million is absurd.

That entire paragraph is absurd. If government involvement stopped progress, you'd have no website [or internet] to enable sharing such absolute drivel, just for starters.
And just how many major, critical breakthroughs have appeared from some "garage in a small town"? [Google notwithstanding - it only seems indispensable, lol.]
If "a few hundred people" who happen to be scientists are "not the brightest" in your view, and you believe 300 million ordinary average joe schmoes will find the solution instead, then I'm thankful that you don't make policy decisions - Earth, and everyone on it, would be toast.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
While science decides whether humans are responsible for the change, [and frankly, given the evidence, I don't see what other cause there could be - what else even could change the ecosystem to such a degree?]
A butterfly flaps its wings in China and it rains in Central Park. Chaos Theory describes how that works, and it also describes how things can be affected on a cosmological scale. A star goes supernova in Vega and everything from dark matter to sunspot activity to the manner and speed at which we (our solar system) are meandering in and out of the spiral arm of the galaxy is affected. There is a direct correlation between sunspot activity and solar wind emissions and the climate on Earth. There is also a correlation between climate and where we are in that spiral arm. Those things, and others, have had a significant impact on our climate patterns and climate changes over the eons. The increased level of CO2 in the atmosphere isn't helping, to be sure, but there is simply not enough data to point the finger at a single cause. It's like several million causes in combination.

I think we can agree that if it needs to be reversed, or at least slowed down, only humans can do it.
I think you give humans too much credit.

The Koch Bros have spent a lot of money over a lot of years to change the conversation and the outcome, but science doesn't lie, and the time to make changes [even if they have a negative effect on the Koch's business interests] is running short.
Yep. The planet nor the solar system gives a rat's furry little behind about the Kock brothers.

While the debate rages on over whose fault it is, what happens when we pass the point of no return? When the honeybees go extinct? When the extreme weather events become the everyday norm?
Same thing that's happened with the previous five mass extinctions on this planet. There's gonna be a sixth one, and there's nothing we can do about it. We may hasten it with the ways we are affecting live on the planet (species are becoming extinct at alarming rates) or it might just be the result of another large body impact. There are so many big rocks flying around in space that the Earth has basically been playing a big game of Frogger ever since the solar system formed, and it's amazing that we haven't been impacted far more often than we have.

Back in the 1800s the concept of anything being extinct simply didn't exist. When Thomas Jefferson sent Lewis and Clark to the northwest, the hope (and assumption) was that they would find mastodons roaming around out there, because mastodon bones has been dug up, to they must be somewhere, things don't go just extinct. Do they? But someone, a French naturalist I think, figured that since all these bones from different animals keep getting dug up, and no one has ever seen these creatures, something must have caused them to no longer be in existence. The concept of extinction was born half a century before the concept of evolution. So they now knew things became extinct, but they had no idea how new species came about, not how the extinctions happened. They simply thought everything had always been exactly as it was.

The asteroid impact that did in the dinosaurs 66 million years ago was a theory that was scoffed at for more than a century, until it was proven in the 1980s and 1990s, because it didn't mesh with the theory of slow-process evolution. But we now know that the history of life on this planet consists of really long periods of boredom interrupted occasionally by panic. The climate and ecosystem usually changes slowly, but sometimes it changes fast, and when it does, it's very hard for most organisms to keep up.

People are beginning to panic, and they're looking for not only a quick fix, but an easy blame.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Nothing will be solved as long as individuals keep waiting, and demanding, change. It is the actions of the individual that has to change, and the inaction. Waiting, and depending, on government will just continue the problems.

Cut YOUR energy use. Something as simple as planning a week, or two week menu, and doing all your shopping in one trip can save a lot fuel burning. Not sound like much? A few gallons less burned per week? Multiply that by millions of cars per week. It is a lot.

Guess what? The environment is NOT only the worlds temps. Clean up YOUR mess. If everyone in the country cleaned up the mess around their house, things would be cleaner. That is POSITIVE action, rather than complaining. Join a "conservation" group, not a group that is just lawyers filing lawsuits, but a group that really DOES things. POSITIVE things. Get out, walk a river bank somewhere and clean up the trash.

There are 300 million people in the United States, it does not take a LOT of time, from each individual, to affect great change.

Individuals cannot change the "big" problems, but they can change the "local" issues. There is no point in blaming the "Koch Brothers" or "greedy corporations" if YOU are not doing everything that YOU can do. Remember, the "greedy corporations" are only in power because YOU demand their products.
 
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cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
People are beginning to panic because it's pretty obvious that man is certainly capable of destroying the whole earth in a relentless and heedless race to be Masters of the Universe.
And that some pretty powerful people have a lot invested in the race, and they would rather we continue debating about what caused it, who's responsible, what should be done about it, and best of all, whether it's really even a problem at all. [At least you admit that increased CO2 isn't helping!]
Germany has just managed to achieve >70% power generation from solar and wind, and we could certainly do it too. Why haven't we?
Because the people with the money and power [bad pun!] to direct the conversation [not to mention the legislation] would lose some money, that's why. They wanted time to see if it's going to be a real problem [it is], and now they want time to shift their assets into different areas, before their investments tank.
Meteor strikes notwithstanding, [and the one that hit in Russia was pretty scary, you ask me], I hope there is enough time left.
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
Will Climate Change Advocates Shut Up on September 25, 2015?

The read-more link & original for this text are here: http://teapartyeconomist.com/2014/05/16/will-climate-change-advocates-shut-september-25-2015/



The Tea Party Economist
By Gary North

The Foreign Minister of France told Secretary of State John Kerry that the world has only 500 days until there is climate chaos.

This was reported on May 14, 2014. He said it on May 13. So, 500 days after May 13, 2014 is September 24, 2015. That’s climate judgment day.

Since it will be too late to do anything about the changing climate when we reach chaos, I encourage global warming apocalyptics to shut up after that date.

My recommendation: don’t worry about anything you cannot change. After September 24, 2015, we will not be able to do anything about it.

Frankly, I am not concerned about global warming. I am concerned about global cooling, which will shorten the growing season. It will raise the costs of heating our homes.

Despite my lack of concern over global warming, I am nevertheless entitled to have the global warming warners cease to give any more warnings after the cut-off date.

I have a question. The United Nations Organization — the real name of the UN — has scheduled a conference on climate change. It will be held from November 30 to December 11, 2015. It is supposed to be convened in Paris.

How will they convene it, given all the chaos? Also, what good will it do? It will be too late by November, let alone December.

Continue Reading on www.google.com
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It is unlikely that the earth's temps will go beyond historical norms, on either the warm, or cold, side of the scale. Too cold is more possible than too warm, in my opinion. I also question the idea that warming will cause more drought. Releasing more water, IE: melting, will increase evaporation, creating more clouds, and therefor, more rain. Changing patterns may increase drought in some areas or increase rain in others, the overall amount of precipitation should increase.
 

xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
People are beginning to panic because it's pretty obvious that man is certainly capable of destroying the whole earth in a relentless and heedless race to be Masters of the Universe.
And that some pretty powerful people have a lot invested in the race, and they would rather we continue debating about what caused it, who's responsible, what should be done about it, and best of all, whether it's really even a problem at all. [At least you admit that increased CO2 isn't helping!]
Germany has just managed to achieve >70% power generation from solar and wind, and we could certainly do it too. Why haven't we?
Because the people with the money and power [bad pun!] to direct the conversation [not to mention the legislation] would lose some money, that's why. They wanted time to see if it's going to be a real problem [it is], and now they want time to shift their assets into different areas, before their investments tank.
Meteor strikes notwithstanding, [and the one that hit in Russia was pretty scary, you ask me], I hope there is enough time left.

Its way to easy to make simplistic statements like Germany achieved 70% so can we. This type of dreaming happens all to often.

German population 80,996,688.

United states population 319,510,848

Four times the population makes it a bit more difficult to achieve. Germany actually produces much less of their energy than stated from renewable sources.

The real numbers not just some fictitious number achieved for half of a day.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/05/13/3436923/germany-energy-records/

Sent from my - Fisher Price ABC - 123
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Not to mention that it would take about 250,000 acres of wind farm to equal the output of one nuke plant. That is a LOT of land tied up, and a LOT of environmental damage.

What is the "carbon footprint" of a rock concert? Is it worth it evironmentally speaking? A NASCAR race is pure filth. Golf courses are extreme polluters, and lest we forget, American's lawns cause major damage to the countries fresh water. The fertilizers cause algae blooms, which lower oxygen content, which cause fish kills and increases the cost of water purification. I would bet you dollars to doughnuts that most who are in a "panic" over climate change will do NOTHING to change it on their own. Like quit using laundry detergent and switching to soap. (look that one up all Ye who are just finger pointers)

We COULD also ask why some cars need more horsepower to just drive down the road than my expediter truck uses to haul freight? The carbon footprint of a casino is? Why not close ALL bars/nightclubs etc at midnight instead of 2am? That would result in a HUGE energy savings. The list goes on, just keep pointing and panic some more instead of doing 100% of what YOU should be doing. No matter how you look at it, YOU are the blame.

The main reason that people are in a panic is because they are being told that they must be, and then, they are fool enough to follow. Then they continue to bury their heads in the sand, point fingers, and do little to clean up their own acts. They have been handed a scapegoat and it is FAR easier to run with that than to curtail their own activities.
 
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OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
always wondered WHy make a car for the public that can do 120?.....whats the point?.....one day maybe someone thru the courts will take the auto industry to task....it is almost irresponsible to make one like that.... a kid gets killed by car going 110 on a city street...there has got to be some liability in there somewhere.....my sprinter top speed is 81 I think it is....
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
always wondered WHy make a car for the public that can do 120?.....whats the point?.....one day maybe someone thru the courts will take the auto industry to task....it is almost irresponsible to make one like that.... a kid gets killed by car going 110 on a city street...there has got to be some liability in there somewhere.....my sprinter top speed is 81 I think it is....

NO! It is NOT an issue for the courts, for more laws. The industry ONLY responds to market demands. IF people did not demand these cars, they would NOT be built.

This is a PRIME example of which I speak. The problem is caused by the individual NOT the "greedy" car makers and NOT by a lack of law. It could end, today, don't buy them. It's over. As stated before, the cause of the problems, and their solutions, can be found ONLY in YOUR mirror. (that is the "general" you, not meant to be personal (required disclaimer))

People drive 110 on a city street because they WANT to drive that fast. Again, 100% the fault of the person who does it, NOT Ford etc.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
NO! It is NOT an issue for the courts, for more laws. The industry ONLY responds to market demands. IF people did not demand these cars, they would NOT be built.

This is a PRIME example of which I speak. The problem is caused by the individual NOT the "greedy" car makers and NOT by a lack of law. It could end, today, don't buy them. It's over. As stated before, the cause of the problems, and their solutions, can be found ONLY in YOUR mirror. (that is the "general" you, not meant to be personal (required disclaimer))

People drive 110 on a city street because they WANT to drive that fast. Again, 100% the fault of the person who does it, NOT Ford etc.
...
I didn't say anything about making a NEW LAW.....I said let Joe Public sue thier butts off....
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
NO need for courts. NO need for a "nanny state". Increasing these kinds of law suits is a VERY dangerous idea, for soon, everybody will be suing, everything, that they don't like. I would sue golf courses to stop their heavy pollution and destruction of wildlife habitat. I would sue to stop the needless waste of resources for rock concerts.

I believe that personal responsibility is the ONLY answer. The courts, a "nanny state" do more harm than good. It is each and every one of our responsibilities to do what ever we can to "fix" the problems. I contend, that most, including the greatest finger pointers and hand wringers, are doing little to nothing.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Funny thing about human behavior.....get a bunch of like minded together and they become the next ruling party....:(
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
The clans fought against the Lords ...and then the clan leaders became the next tyrants.....and it goes on....

just as here...beat the British back and new tyrants arose from the freedom fighters....
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The clans fought against the Lords ...and then the clan leaders became the next tyrants.....and it goes on....

just as here...beat the British back and new tyrants arose from the freedom fighters....

And the tyrants today, are using some of the EXACT tactics to control the surfs that the English used. Like control/outlawing of private weapons ownership. At one time it was crossbows, now it's guns. Same ole, same ole.

"And the beat goes on, and the beat goes on"

Only problem is that MOST people are too stupid to see it. Then again, that is the primary goal of federally controlled education, no matter where it is. It is solely about control.
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
History tip ..... Correct spelling serfs. Serfdom became obsolete in the 15th - 16th century

You are welcome :)
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
History tip ..... Correct spelling serfs. Serfdom became obsolete in the 15th - 16th century

You are welcome :)

Thank you, spelling was NEVER my strong suit.

"Serfdom" is still alive and expanding, it is now called "dependence". The more a people/person is dependent on a government for their existence, the more they are enslaved.

Government social programs are the antithesis of freedom.
 

NorthernBill

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
How about the Chem. Trails that are reported in some media? Putting metal in the air stream. What is the purpose and can it affect the weather.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
How about the Chem. Trails that are reported in some media? Putting metal in the air stream. What is the purpose and can it affect the weather.
The chemtrails is from a conspiracy theory was long ago resoundingly debunked.

Chemtrail conspiracy theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contrails v Chemtrails: The Science That Debunks The Conspiracy | Irish Weather Online

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/debunked-chemtrail-plane-interior-ballast-barrels.661/
 
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