Why no celebration?

[NorthernBill]

So much for a fresh bag of popcorn!

 

[Turtle]

So much for a fresh bag of popcorn!

Yeah, I know what you mean. Popcorn goes stale so fast these days. I figure it's because of the chemtrails.

 

[cheri1122]

Its way to easy to make simplistic statements like Germany achieved 70% so can we. This type of dreaming happens all to often.

German population 80,996,688.

United states population 319,510,848

Four times the population makes it a bit more difficult to achieve. Germany actually produces much less of their energy than stated from renewable sources.

The real numbers not just some fictitious number achieved for half of a day.

Germany Sets New Record, Generating 74 Percent Of Power Needs From Renewable Energy | ThinkProgress

Sent from my - Fisher Price ABC - 123

That wasn't a "simplistic" statement, it was simply a fact. Sure, there are differences between the US and Germany, but when has the US ever backed down from a technological challenge?
Remember when we went to the moon? And the International Space Station?
We used to do big, important, "Wow!" things. We used to put engineers and scientists to a challenge, and GET IT DONE.
How come we're not that country anymore?

 

[OntarioVanMan]

That wasn't a "simplistic" statement, it was simply a fact. Sure, there are differences between the US and Germany, but when has the US ever backed down from a technological challenge?
Remember when we went to the moon? And the International Space Station?
We used to do big, important, "Wow!" things. We used to put engineers and scientists to a challenge, and GET IT DONE.
How come we're not that country anymore?

cause we are broke.....

 

[Turtle]

Germany's wind and solar is like 90 government subsidized, which is scheduled to get cut off next year.

 

[xiggi]

That wasn't a "simplistic" statement, it was simply a fact. Sure, there are differences between the US and Germany, but when has the US ever backed down from a technological challenge?
Remember when we went to the moon? And the International Space Station?
We used to do big, important, "Wow!" things. We used to put engineers and scientists to a challenge, and GET IT DONE.
How come we're not that country anymore?

The only thing that was a fact is they breached 70% for half a day. That part was left out of Cheri's post making it sound like 70% of there power needs are derived from solar and wind which is far from a fact.

Sent from my - Fisher Price ABC - 123

 

[cheri1122]

The only thing that was a fact is they breached 70% for half a day. That part was left out of Cheri's post making it sound like 70% of there power needs are derived from solar and wind which is far from a fact.

Sent from my - Fisher Price ABC - 123

Nitpicking. The point was that Germany is accomplishing what we are not, but should be, IMO. Maybe they encourage little girls to be scientists and engineers when they grow up.....

 

[layoutshooter]

The only thing that was a fact is they breached 70% for half a day. That part was left out of Cheri's post making it sound like 70% of there power needs are derived from solar and wind which is far from a fact.

Sent from my - Fisher Price ABC - 123

There is NO one, single answer to the energy problem. ALL forms of energy production cause environmental problems. Wind farms are not a good idea. Stripping mountain tops to build wind farms is a very bad idea. Solar holds more promise, they will do less damage if they utilize every roof top in the United States and they do not cover up any open land.

IF you REALLY want to move forward, get government out of it. They are the problem, not the solution. The BEST solution would be to find a way for each home to generate it's own power, doing away with the power grid, which itself is a problem. It is very vulnerable to EMP. Finding a cost efficient, energy efficient, way to move everything to a single house system would solve many problems. THAT will never happen if the government is in control. They want to REMAIN in control.

 

[xiggi]

Nitpicking. The point was that Germany is accomplishing what we are not, but should be, IMO. Maybe they encourage little girls to be scientists and engineers when they grow up.....

Not nitpicking it is called honesty as in not trying to make something out to be what it isn't. I have no problem at all using renewable resources but honesty in the discusion is important. Germany is generating 27% of their energy from renewables and we are at 13% with the population difference we might be generating more than they are. Don't know if that's a fact but it sure sounds feasible.

Sent from my - Fisher Price ABC - 123

 

[layoutshooter]

Hydro power is a renewable resource that destroys the environment. Wipes out entire eco-systems. Wipes out fish runs. It is therefor bad, unless one is a "modern" environmentalist, like ALGORE. Wind turbines are killing raptors, but the "modern" environmentalist is OKEE DOKEE with that, giving them free passes. "Modern" environmentalists have NO problem covering as many acres as they can make money on with solar panels, until the federal grant money ends.

It is a joke.

 

[Turtle]

First off, Germany is the size of Montana. It's a lot easier to install nationwide infrastructure, like wind, solar, rapid transit, etc., when your entire country is really small.

Germany's 27% is 40.2 billion kWh of electricity, while the US's 13% is 526.6 billion kWh.

 

[cheri1122]

So it's easier - when did "difficult" ever stop us from doing what needed to be done? Or even doing what we just wanted to do, like putting a man on the moon: how easy was that?
Floating marine windpower looks promising....

 

[Turtle]

So it's easier - when did "difficult" ever stop us from doing what needed to be done? Or even doing what we just wanted to do, like putting a man on the moon: how easy was that?
Floating marine windpower looks promising....

Something being "difficult" has never really stopped us from doing something that needed to be done. Recognizing the difference between "wanting it really, really badly" and "it needs to be done" has, though.

There are three primary motivators of people and of nations to do great things: religion (the praise of a deity or royalty), war (or fear for self-preservation), and monetary return. It's the three motivational fears that drive us. Whenever a people or a nation does something big and great (and expensive), the most ambitious things we've ever done, you can trace it directly to one of the three motivators.

Praise to royalty or a deity got us The Pyramids (basically great big tombstones), the great cathedrals of Europe, these were substantial fractions of the public finances that paid for them. Another motivator is war - nobody wants to die. That gets you the Great Wall of China. The Manhattan Project. The Mercury and Apollo programs were a result of the Cold War. Soon as that threat ended, so did the Lunar Program. On the 20th anniversary of the Moon landing, Bush made this big Kennedy-esque speech about putting men on Mars. And like the next day the Berlin Wall came down, and putting a man on Mars got put on the rear of the top shelf where you can't see or reach it. The other is monetary return. Not only does nobody want to die, but they certainly don't want to die poor (especially Republicans). That's what got us the Columbus voyages, Magellan, Lewis and Clark - that of figuring out what is beyond that frontier in hugely expensive enterprises, conducted by governments, in expectations of a return in natural resources, more economical travel, etc.

If we want to altenative-energize the country on an ambitious and impressive scale, we can only do it with one of the three primary motivators.

Today, the worship of deity and royalty cannot function as a substantial motivator. We’ve lost most of our ancient gullibility and won’t fall for such a hollow pursuit. War is a possible motivator, but as long as we're the biggest, baddest bully on the block and we can just go and take all that Middle Eastern oil if push comes to shove, that's not going to be enough to motivate us. If all the other countries gang up on us, and it's a little surprising that they haven't by now, then that could change very quickly. It could also change quickly when everyone, and I mean everyone, realizes that Climate Change has reached a point where we need to stop what we're doing, right now, this second, and move everything to wind and solar and hydro power, otherwise we're gonna die. The final motivator is monetary return. And that's why we haven't done it yet, because the return on investment just isn't there. It might someday, but until that day, it ain't gonna happen.

 

[cheri1122]

1: I'm a little surprised all the other countries haven't ganged up on us already, too.
2: We're all going to die no matter what we do.

PS None of those 3 motives apply to those countries [like Scandinavia] that consider quality of life more important than profit - explain, please.

 

[Turtle]

PS None of those 3 motives apply to those countries [like Scandinavia] that consider quality of life more important than profit - explain, please.

Well, first, Scandinavia isn't a country. But if you break out Denmark, Finland, Norway and Sweden, Denmark is slightly less than two times the size of Massachusetts, Norway is the size of New Mexico, Finland, like Germany, is about the size of Montana (slightly smaller), and Sweden is the size of California. From a infrastructure logistical standpoint, it's much easier to get it done in countries that size. So I'm not sure that I'd categorize what they did as impressively great, as it didn't require a substantial fraction of public funds to accomplish.

Denmark pioneered wind power out of a combination of monetary return and out of fear for survival, with the latter being the primary motivator and the former developing later. They developed wind power in the 1970s because of the oil crisis, due to the fact that 95% of their electricity at the time was either oil based or from coal imports from the outside of Europe. Coal imports became too expensive and there was no domestic oil to speak of, so they had to quickly develop an alternative. Even today more than half the world's wind turbines are produced by Danish manufacturers (Vestas, Siemens Wind Power, etc.).

In Sweden, hydroelectric power accounts for more than half the electric generation. It has been that way for a long, long time, because they have much more hydro resources than they do wood and peat (they have no oil or coal). Nuclear power accounts for 35%. Wind power contributes 2.4% to the total.

In Norway, hydroelectric power accounts for 98% of the electric production. They don't have a lot of lakes to store water, but the height difference of the mountainous regions combined with the abundant rain and snowfall allows for lots of hydro power. What little oil and gas they produce, they use for their own vehicles and then export the rest. They also export most of the hydroelectric power. They get a monetary return on that.

In Finland they have 28% nuclear power, 16% hydro power, 13% coal, 11% natural gas, 5% peat and 10% wood fuels and other renewables. They import about 16% of their electricity. They have almost no wind turbines at all, with wind energy comprising 0.5% of consumption (despite 97% of the public being in favor of wind power).

The countries that do have large wind and solar power generation are indeed doing it with public money (except for Denmark, of course), but thus far they have not seen a return and that public money is drying up fast. Necessity is the mother of invention, and just like Denmark in the 70s, it will necessity (one or more of those three primary motivators) which will get us or any other country to be sufficiently powered by alternative and renewable energies.

 

[layoutshooter]

Now it would seem the the US Fish and Wildlife service is going to STOP doing the work they are required to do by law, and divert funds from actual conservation work, all in the name of wind and solar project permitting.

The programs that will be put on hold are paid for by voluntary taxes, requested by and paid by, those who hunt waterfowl. It may be time for those who pay for the bulk a actual, real life, conservation work to step up, AGAIN, and put an end to this. Delta waterfowl has already jumped in. I fully expect other groups to join the fray in the near future.

Find ANOTHER way to pay for the permitting process for wind and solar power. The diversion of dedicated funds, the suspension of mandated conservation programs, is NOT acceptable.

MANY wind and solar projects are damaging to wildlife and wildlife habitat. Habit loss and degradation is the greatest threat to wildlife in general and waterfowl in particular. This is just MORE proof that this administration has NO interest in the environment and conservation. It is all about the "bucks for their buddies" in "greedy corporations", like ALGORE and GE. Notice too, that this is taking place in the West, dominated by California, one of the most ecologically messed up states in the Nation and one of the states that does the LEAST conservation and environmental work in the country.



Delta Waterfowl Speaks Out on USFWS Decision






"An internal USFWS memo written by Eric Davis, assistant regional director for USFWS Region 8, declares that traditional migratory bird responsibilities - including work on the Pacific Flyway Council, assistance to habitat joint ventures and duck stamp and junior duck stamp program - will cease for the foreseeable future.

"Effective now, we will stop working on anything that is not related to renewable energy or the permit backlog," Davis wrote. "The MBP (migratory bird program) priorities have shifted, at least in R8 (region 8). In R8, our top priority is renewable energy.""

Delta Waterfowl Cries Foul at USFWS Announcement : The Outdoor Wire

 

[layoutshooter]

And yet MORE on how MR. Environment, MR. GREENIE WEENIE, Obama is PROVING he does not give a flip about the environment, only making sure his rich buddies get to do what ever they want, without regard for the damage they do. All this goes hand in hand with Mr. Owammy Bammies refusal to do ANYTHING to keep Asian carp out of the Great Lakes. What a bunch of horse feathers.

"Fish, Wildlife Projects Snubbed for Administration's Green Energy Priorities?"


"The FWS recently adopted rules allowing wind producers to receive a 30-year permit to kill eagles in these operations, leading several environmental organizations to protest, including the American Bird Conservancy, which filed a lawsuit alleging the FWS violated federal laws when it promulgated the regulation that sanctions the killing of bald and golden eagles."

















Fish, Wildlife Projects Snubbed for Administration's Green Energy Priorities? : The Outdoor Wire

 

[Archer]

I'm not going to worry about it, we won't be here to see it anyway.

 

[layoutshooter]

I'm not going to worry about it, we won't be here to see it anyway.

I would not worry about it either if it were not for the taxes and the restrictions on our lives they are going to put into place based on all this BS.