whats the answer

fortwayne · Jul 11, 2007

Well, no one is talking about holding hands here first of all. It is not about the o/o or the drivers doing there part in the 'food chain'.
Hell, we do our part, we pick the prize up and we drop the prize off right where it is suppose to go and at just the right time. What we are talking about here is the carriers are not doing their part - it is as simple as that. We, meaning the o/o and the drivers, can not meet our expectations when the starting link in the chain is not doing their part and that is maintaining a customer base and developing a new base of good paying customers paying good freight rates. In order for anyone to reach their goal they must eliminate all objects that will prevent them from reaching their goals. Now, I say we eliminate the drivers and o/o who are willing to stab us all in the back to work for cheap freight. (I am not saying lets knife or kill them either.) This would place the pressure on all carriers to educate their current customers and new customers that 'here is the freight rate for 2007.' Increases in fuel, insurance, maintenance forces us like any industry to raise the prices. Hell when Ford, Chevy and all the other car giants hike their prices - we have to pay their prices - weather they have one car on the lot or 200.Why is our industry so stuck in our ways that we should cave into the customer.
I don't want to hear they will go somewhere else.....your missing the point........we are a professionals.........we should act like it not like a bunch of lot lizards willing to do anything for some cheap money. MY TIME, MY DEDICATION TO SERVICE, AND MY PROFESSIONALISM IS WORTH MORE TO A CUSTOMER than some scab carrier/owner op/driver if my carrier would just get out there and SELL THOSE QUALITIES!

Fort Wayne
Guided By God

NoProblem · Jul 11, 2007

Actually, it is not quite that simple.

The (expedite) carrier can only hope to get what "The Market" will pay, which in turn, determines what the driver gets paid.

Who and what determines "The Market"?

Like any market, the "who" and "what" change all the time - and, there are always exceptions.

My .02 - - - The expedite niche is miniscule, yet overall, critical or J.I.T. freight is a very big market and the "Market Movers" are, of course, very big........the money the Market Movers make in moving said market, is in the billions of dollars.

Think CHRW, Union Pacific, Roadway, SWIFT etc. etc. etc.

Unless and until these - and many other biggies - raise their rates, while admirable, YOUR TIME, YOUR DEDICATION TO SERVICE, AND YOUR PROFESSIONALISM IS WORTH NO MORE TO A CUSTOMER - than the market will pay.

If things are going to change, then change must occur from the top, down - not the other way around.

Best of luck to us all !

Just my .02
For what itâ€™s worth
Just my humble opinion, etc. etc. etc.

Note:
My above .02 only applies to â€œregular expeditingâ€. It does not in the slightest intend to refer the â€œabove and beyondâ€ specialty or tval type services that know no spikes in the possible seasonality of load offerings due to the very special and intense nature of the extra expedient variables of those particular giant dollar loads.

Best of luck to all and be safe out there!

Vinnie T · Jul 11, 2007

It's easy to blame "cheap frieght", but what it boils down to is supply and demand as many others have said. 8-10 years ago our domestic manufacturing base was MUCH larger. We made more things that needed to be delivered to more manufacturing plants. Now days a large portion of these facilites have gone overseas, that being both the manufacturer and the actual plants that assemble the products. Sure there will always be a need for expedite and emergency service, but since a large portion of this freight has left our country there is less of this kind of business to go around. More drivers and less good paying loads equal lower rates, you know the good old free market. Factor in the increased cost of doing business and fuel expenses it gets down right hairy. The good old days are long gone and it may get worse before it gets better now that our president has allowed a cheaper foriegn carrier base from Mexico run our loads. Some say it will not affect expedite, but where are a lot those same parts we ran 8 years ago as expedite freight being made these days?

fortwayne · Jul 11, 2007

Yes it is that simple Mr. General Manager of A Carrier Company. The problem with your thought that a carrier can only hope to get what the market will pay is that you have allowed the customer to take over our industry.
Why then do we as customers of Pilot, Flying J, TA, etc tell them we will only pay 2.25 per gallon for their fuel. Because they tell us their price and we pay them. They tell us that the high price of fuel is because there is a higher demand than supply. THEY HAVE CREATED THIS MYTH AND WE BOUGHT INTO THE HYPE THEY TELL US, THE NEWS MEDIA TELLS US AND UNCLE SAM TELLS US.
We use the excuse that our customers will just go to the company and driver that will drive the freight for a cheaper price - our customers have created a SURPLUS OF DRIVERS to keep their prices down while we in the industry know it is a fact our industry has had a shortage of drivers.
You also added until the big guns raise their prices the rest of us in the expedite industry is just stuck in this rut of poor rates. That is another problem, you carriers are always waiting around for someone else to take the lead. We all need to step up and take an active role in fixing this problem.
Why is there not a expedite industry council of carriers, o/o and drivers that would come together to develop an industry game plan to battle this issue. We would all still have our own marketing plans, etc, etc - but on this issue it should be the same.
It will not be who will survive it will be which one will fall first and which will fall last.

Fort Wayne
Guided By God

jaminjim · Jul 12, 2007

Don't be surprised if the "Mr. Carrier" does not respond to you. After all you are the one who ragged on him about "plugging" his company for free.

jaminjim · Jul 12, 2007

Just checked, yep he seems to be a PAYING advertiser. So maybe you could be "guided" to call him and offer him an aplogy that I and some others think he has comming. My opinon and mine only is that you were completly out of line MR FORT.

NoProblem · Jul 12, 2007

jaminjim, if you're referring to me, I take no offense at fortwayne.

Its not that I do not agree with fortwayne because for the most part, I do.

Just my .02
For what itâ€™s worth
Just my humble opinion, etc. etc. etc.

Note:
My above .02 only applies to â€œregular expeditingâ€. It does not in the slightest intend to refer the â€œabove and beyondâ€ specialty or tval type services that know no spikes in the possible seasonality of load offerings due to the very special and intense nature of the extra expedient variables of those particular giant dollar loads.

Best of luck to all and be safe out there!

fortwayne · Jul 12, 2007

You want to state that I am completly out of line and owe him something - you my friend are wrong.
What I am saying is that we are all to blame for this mess we are in and the carriers need to step up and admit their fault as well, step up and correct their errors, and do what is right and comp thier o/o and drivers with decent rates in 2007 and stop making excuses for their inability to control their own industry and their own customer base.
If the cold hard facts are being out of line then I am way out of line - its' just time for US to regain control of our own industry.

Fort Wayne
Guided By God

ATeam · Jul 12, 2007

Any savings a carrier might realize by cutting agents or other costs will be passed on as lower rates to the customer or increased profits on the carrier's bottom line, or both. They will not be passed on as additional revenue to the owner-operators that haul the freight.

People who have their own authority and develop their own customer bases get to retain the revenue a carrier might otherwise earn, including the carrier's profit margin. Operating under one's own authority is an option for anyone who believes a carrier's cut is not worth the services the carrier provides.

jaminjim · Jul 12, 2007

Fortwayne said: "WOW - nice free ad for TranStewart."

In response to the above comment Horseman replied:
"Just one more point. I apologize if anyone believes that the purpose of my posts are to gain an advertising advantage. I assure you that is not the case. Its just that this particular subject matter evokes much frustration and emotion. I'll probably not post on this site again in order to avoid a wrong appearance."

It's not often that an owner of a freight company comes on this web site to begain with. Did he get a "free plug" for his company? Not really in my opinon, he is already a paying advertiser. But came on here to give his two cents on what his company was doing.

davekc · Jul 12, 2007

Fort Wayne wrote,

We use the excuse that our customers will just go to the company and driver that will drive the freight for a cheaper price - our customers have created a SURPLUS OF DRIVERS to keep their prices down while we in the industry know it is a fact our industry has had a shortage of drivers
==================================================
There may be a shortage of US drivers because of the stagnant wages. There is however no shortage of drivers available. This is why the ATA is pushing so hard to open the border. Even now, there are more and more expedite companies, so finding drivers with trucks seems to be readily available. As mentioned, it is purely a supply and demand issue.
I do agree with Phil on one point. Find a carrier that lets you obtain your own freight with you setting the rate, or apply for your own authority.
No reason to complicate the simple.

Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator

lanier1 · Jul 12, 2007

First of all, FW, it would be illegal for the carriers to get together and set a pricing guideline to follow.

Secondly, what part of "what the market will bear" do you not understand? If there are two TVs at the TV store that are identical in features but one is $300 less than the other, which one will you purchase and why do you think that is any different from this issue?

Of course I wish that rates for us would go up and businesses and owners could realize increased profits across the board but I don't look to others to make it happen for me. My profitability and success lie solely at my doorstep. If I am not realizing my expectations in what I am doing then it is up to me to make the changes necessary to acheive the goals I seek.

BTW, whats up with giving yourself a + on your own rating here?

x06col · Jul 12, 2007

Our guys bid their own freight. And we have absolutely zero whining about lack of freight, revenue per mile, fuel sircharge, short runs, long runs, too much work, not enough work, or, any of the myrade of things I read on here. IF things are not going precisely to their liking, they only have to look in the mirror. But, sometimes they don't like what they see even with the freedom they have. Amazing isn't it?

x06col · Jul 12, 2007

A real case and point concerning this "what's the answer?" thing...

We had a fella start with us last month, hauled his first load on 4 June 07, his last load on 30 June 07 before the Holiday, then deadheaded home for the 4th.
Drove 11,552 ALL miles (IFTA)
Grossed $17,791.40
And,during the last phone conversation with with him, he was mumbling something about being sick and tired of sacraficing everything for the Company and getting nothing in return.

So, obviously, i'm not the one to give the answer to this question.
Cause, I dunno.

fortwayne · Jul 12, 2007

Ok, I am wrong, I am the one that is at fault, and everything in the expediting business is still peaching fine OK.
So I understand now that we should never question a carrier, that whatever someone wants to pay us we should just take it, that we should never fight for a fair part of the pie, and that when the ATA gets their way and floods even more drivers into the marketplace and the rates drop even lower then we need to take a smaller chunk of the pie and find a way to pay all of our ever rising cost.
I also understand since the previous post showed us such a great example of a few drivers making some darn good money that the rest of us really need to be happy for them since the minority rules in this country.
So everything is fine here. Let us take note that all is fine in the industry. We are willing, ready and set in our ways to let this trend
go on forever.
I love how we can :censoredsign:

about our rates, deadhead, etc but all we are ever willing to do is come back to the same ole' conclusion - supply and demand.
When will we ever wake up and be progressive instead of just sitting here and be complacent. I guess never.
Fort Wayne
Guided By God

davekc · Jul 12, 2007

Since it was already mentioned, what is stopping you from obtaining your own authority? If your with Panther, book your own loads. We and many others do it every day.
There are several other carriers that afford that opportunity to you as well.
Questioning the carrier is all fine, but I see little reason for them to price themselves out of the market on principle.
If all the effort you put into trying to change carriers was utilized to obtain your own freight, you would have little to complain about.
Just an observation.

Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator

fortwayne · Jul 12, 2007

davekc -

First during training we are told we are only to seek out our own freight if we are OUT OF THE PRIMARY SERVICE AREA. So, if I am wrong then tell me so, as I am sure you have been there longer than me. (3 months).
Because trust me after this week I would be thrilled to look for my own freight.
Because after falling on so many deaf ears it really is about me and me only at this point.

Fort Wayne
Guided By God

davekc · Jul 12, 2007

Yes, you can book your own load regardless of location. If for example we pull onto a board and there is alot of trucks, we will move on a load of our own. Being in Seville the day after a orientation class gets out comes to mind.
If there are no trucks, then it only makes sense to wait and see what they offer if it is a good location.
Also, what may be a great board one day, may not be the next.

Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator