What is owed you?

[CharlesD]

Here's a real situation, with names left out to protect the innocent...or guilty...depending on what side you want to take.

A contractor is dispatched on a load and arrives at the shipper, but can't get loaded right away due to some problems at the shipper's facility. The dispatcher communicates this information to the customer and tells the driver to stay put until further notice. An hour later the driver calls dispatch and says that the load is a dry run but dispatch tells the driver to stay put because the customer has not yet verified if the load is a dry run or not. Another hour passes and the customer calls and tells dispatch that the load is a go because some arrangement has been made to load the van. Dispatch calls the driver, but the driver has left the premises and gone home, and is now refusing to go back to the shipper. The dispatcher calls a partner carrier that has a van in the area and brokers the load to them in order to meet the obligation to the customer, but due to weather, the partner's unit takes a while to make it to the shipper and now the load picks up nearly 3 hours late, but he busts his butt and makes the protect time on the load, thus saving the first company's rear.

The next day the original driver calls dispatch and asks if he is going to get anything for the dry run and dispatch tells him that the load was brokered to another carrier, so it wasn't a dry run and there is therefore no dry run pay. The owner of this company has a soft heart and decides to give the driver another chance and books him on another load a couple days later. The driver gets to the shipper and the freight turns out to be too big for the van, but the customer says to hold the van there until they confirm whether or not the shipper might want to ship part of the freight on the van. Once again, the driver is told by dispatch to wait there until a definite decision is made regarding the status of the load. A couple hours later the customer calls dispatch and says that, per the shipper, the driver is no longer on the premises. Dispatch calls the driver and he says that since the load is a dry run, he is heading home. The problem is that the customer had not yet confirmed that the load was a dry run. Eventually this was confirmed, but the customer doesn't want to pay anything on the dry run because the driver left before it was confirmed.

Once again, the driver wants dry run pay and is once again told that since he left the premises early there is no dry run pay. The driver still insists that this money is owed him for both loads and voices that opinion rather strongly to dispatch, by which point the driver is no longer under contract to the carrier. The driver still insists that dry run pay is owed him for both loads, says some other unsavory things about the company, and states that he can prove this money is owed him.

Who is in the right here? Does the carrier owe anything to this driver?

 

[moose]

I'd go with the Carrier on this one .
the driver should have waited for instructions from dispatch in both cases .
however ,detention pay should have started ,if that's a part of the contract.
more then that ,there MIGHT be a liability issue ,in case of an accident on the way home .

 

[xiggi]

The driver is owed nothing, no dry run, no detention not a red cent. He abandoned the load and in doing so gave up right to compensation. You might have just found a situation you want to add to your driver contracts.

 

[Wolfeman68]

I'd go with the Carrier on this one .
the driver should have waited for instructions from dispatch in both cases .
however ,detention pay should have started ,if that's a part of the contract.
more then that ,there MIGHT be a liability issue ,in case of an accident on the way home .

I have to agree. The driver didn't follow instructions. If the shipper told the driver something one way or the other, the driver should have gotten the name of the individual and conveyed that to dispatch to confirm.

Whatever the circumstances, he should not have left the shipper until instructed to do so by dispatch.

 

[pjjjjj]

Who is in the right here? Does the carrier owe anything to this driver?

Driver was contracted with carrier, not with the shipper nor the customer. Not only doesn't the carrier owe the driver anything, but can't the carrier bill the driver for the possible excess expense in having to contract with a partner carrier after driver abandoned his responsibility?

 

[simdog20]

sounds to me like it depends on what is in the contract. If there is no detention pay how long does he have to wait? He sits there 24 hours than leaves does he rate it yet? Can the carrier go after him for leaving and forcing them to use someone else? The driver got there no load for him is that his fault? Especially if he not paid detention time and local if he not getting paid i could see him wanting to go home. Its all about communicatons and working together to get job done and make money for all i would hope. At least thats what i am getting out of this business so far but heck i aint even started driving yet.

 

[danthewolf00]

yup carrier is in the right. i have slept waiting for dispatch to call me at a pick up so i don't see why this guy could not wait.

 

[guido4475]

The driver is owed nothing and should enroll in communication and patience classes.Time management wouldnt hurt, either.Maybe another line of work?

 

[Turtle]

The driver isn't owed a dime. The minute he left the shipper without the implicit approval of dispatch he literally and figuratively abandoned the load contract. Whether one just so happened to have gone dry run after he left is irrelevant, since at the time he left, the load was not a dry run.

The shipper can tell the driver it's a dry run, I've certainly had that happen, and I can clearly see that it's a dry run, because the freight won't fit on my van, the freight isn't there, or it's a 900 pound skid and they're dock high only and I'm not, but you don't leave until the paying customer (or dispatch) tells you to leave, since it's the paying customer who pays dry run and/or detention pay.

If you show up and the load isn't ready or isn't even there, you're still contracted until the customer buys out the contract with either dry run or detention pay, or both. If you leave prior to getting loaded or before the customer determines it's a dry run, you have breached the contract. It's that simple.

 

[Hightech_Hobo]

I've got to agree with the general consensus here. The driver was too quick on the draw in both scenerios and lost any monies due as a result of his impatience.

I understand his frustration with the situations but a little patience would have gone a long way here.

As for ending the contract with the driver, I would have made the same decision if I were the Broker/Carrier. As Drivers, we represent the company we are contracted to. We are just vendors to the carriers...if a vendor makes me look bad or is difficult to deal with...Time to find a new vendor!!

 

[x06col]

You cannot pay what you cannot collect. Your contractor shot the ability to collect in the foot by leaving. And that alone is just the tip of the iceberg as far as damage to a Company reputation. Unfortunately, clowns like that will cost you long after their FIRST hiccup. I never waited for their second one.

 

[BillChaffey]

It's not me there talking about.
Carrier is in the right.

 

[bluejaybee]

I have to agree. The driver didn't follow instructions. If the shipper told the driver something one way or the other, the driver should have gotten the name of the individual and conveyed that to dispatch to confirm.

Whatever the circumstances, he should not have left the shipper until instructed to do so by dispatch.

I think the same thing. I do what my dispatch says. Not the shipper. My dispatch is the one that makes the notes as to what went on at each shipper location. Come payday, that is what determines my pay for detention or dry run, etc. So, this particular driver is in the wrong and knocked his own self out of any chances of getting paid for that.

 

[greg334]

Well see here is an issue, I am going to assume that there is a problem with loading the van in the first place for both runs, the second one does state that but the first is not clear about it.

Maybe as mentioned by Moose (I think) there is a problem with getting a forklift on the ground to load the van but the first statement made that I formed my assumption from is this ...

A contractor is dispatched on a load and arrives at the shipper, but can't get loaded right away due to some problems at the shipper's facility.

My assumption is further reinforced by this statement ...

Another hour passes and the customer calls and tells dispatch that the load is a go because some arrangement has been made to load the van.

All things considers - the driver was on time, the driver had a full van available for the load and the driver was not stupid are all given in this scenario.

SO here is the thing

First the load should have been a wash when the van got there and there was no way to load it. If the customer insisted on the van waiting, they pay for that van to sit there even if there is a start of detention time of 2 hours because they or the person who booked the load with the customer didn't ensure that the load could be loaded in a reasonable time frame on to a van or even the load wasn't meant for a van in the first place because the customer was buying blind space at the cheapest rate.

Second the driver, being independent should have been brought into the conversation by a four way call with the customer, dispatch and the dock people. He is part of the chain and needs to be in on the decisions, not just told to sit and wait. He is a business entity, entitled to that - he is not an employee nor dispatch owns that capacity.

Third the driver is at fault for not communicating that he decided to leave because he deemed the run a dry run based on the problems at the dock getting his van loaded - it is another assumption because we didn't get details of why they could not load the van. Nevertheless, this is actually a minor point, not a big deal.

SO ...

On one hand the driver is at fault for leaving the load and not communicating that but again if it is a case where there was a delay due to not loading the van because of physical difficulties on the shippers part, he should have refused the load on arrival.

On the other hand, dispatch dropped the ball by not communicating with the driver and pushing the customer for compensation or at the very least communicating directly with the shipper while the driver is on the phone.

Both cases I would say, yes the driver should be compensated because;

• Dispatch didn't communicate well when the load was booked
• Dispatch didn't communicate directly with the shipper and the driver at the same time
• Dispatch didn't charge the customer for the detent time on a load that could not be put on a van in the first place
• Dispatch didn't seem to trust the driver to listen to his take on the situation nor allowed him to decide whether or not it was going to go

Sorry to go against the grain on this one but many of you don't see the issues I see.

 

[Jefferson3000]

The driver would have done better to wait it out, and nogotiate the detention to stay. If this was a third party bill or even collect, then there is nothing that the shipper can verify to the driver.

He abandoned the load, in violation of his contract. I would abandon him.

BTW, I understand that his dry run pay will be available to him today at McDonald's.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Greg..I see your point..far too often the driver/contractor on the scene is left out of any conversations and that is too bad as he/she has first hand knowledge of the situation...many times I've been left stranded as it seems, left in the dark without any direct input of the situation...It is frustrating to say the least.

 

[Oilerman1957]

Alot depends on what kind of carrier you drive for, if you drive for a larger carrier you can almost assume you are going to be paid detention or dry run pay, it has been my experience so far in that most of the loads my small carrier does are load board loads and most of the time the carriers that broker these loads out wont pay detention or even dry run pay. I have gone to many shippers and the freight wouldnt fit and the company that brokered the load out wouldnt pay anything. So how long should i sit not knowing if im going to receive anything if i do sit for 2 or 3 hrs?

 

[Moot]

Both cases I would say, yes the driver should be compensated because;

• Dispatch didn't communicate directly with the shipper and the driver at the same time

Quite often dispatch never communicates with the shipper.

• Dispatch didn't charge the customer for the detent time on a load that could not be put on a van in the first place

If the carrier's contract with the customer states detention time starts after 2 hours, then that's when it starts.

• Dispatch didn't seem to trust the driver to listen to his take on the situation nor allowed him to decide whether or not it was going to go

It doesn't matter if dispatch trusts the driver or not. The paying customer has the final say.

Sorry to go against the grain on this one but many of you don't see the issues I see.

 

[CharlesD]

Ok, here's a little clarification, since I typed that late last night. In the first case, the shipper couldn't get a forklift to the ground to load the van because of snow, but the freight was hot and they were not going to just not ship it. The shipper called in someone else to come in and help the one guy who was there break down the skid and hand load it. The driver didn't even have to do the hand load. The problem is that by the time dispatch (me in this case) was told by the customer what was going to happen, the driver had flown the coop, even though he was told that the load was not going to cancel because the shipper was going to arrange some way to get the freight on the van. If the shipper had decided that since they weren't going to get a forklift to the ground they weren't going to ship the freight, then we could have gotten dry run money from the broker and the driver would have gotten his dry run pay. Fortunately for me a carrier I partner with had a van 20 miles away and they covered the load for me for less than what I was getting on it, bailing me out and helping me save face with the people I got the load from. In this case, no detention since all this happened before 2 hours had gone by and this particular customer has two free hours detention with us.

On the other case, the load was listed as a certain weight and the driver showed up to find that the weight was double, way more than could go on a van. There was a possibility that the broker would convince the shipper to send half the load on the van, since that's the weight they had been told, and the driver was instructed to wait until that was confirmed one way or the other. By the time it was confirmed, he had already left.

The way I see it, the only mistake the carrier made was giving this driver another chance after the first incident, and that's a mistake that's not likely to be made again.

 

[greg334]

Quite often dispatch never communicates with the shipper.

It is Dispatch who needs to know what's going on by the people who are loading the truck, not through a third party. Dispatch has no reason to complain when the driver says it isn't going to move.

If the carrier's contract with the customer states detention time starts after 2 hours, then that's when it starts.

The customer is paying for that van, then if there is not a load going to happen, then they pay for that van regardless.

But for a load that should go onto a truck ni the first place, the customer should not be shopping for a cheap rate or the carrier should not be bidding on the load. The carrier should tell the customer forget it when the driver tells them "it is not going to go on a van". Too many cheap people chasing pennies.

It doesn't matter if dispatch trusts the driver or not. The paying customer has the final say.

Not really, the carrier and driver have the final say, the customer only pays the bill. They rent the capacity for the work when the work is as they represent to be but do not control that truck/van - the driver does.

I have had a few times when a customer would order a product, book the truck with an unreasonable pickup time and then expect the truck to sit there for more than 2 hours waiting for the shipper to complete the order while the customer knows how much time it took in the first place. I have told the carrier that they can take me off a load a few times and told them I expect detent time from my arrival to my departure and got it. Idling my truck for 4 hours while the product is being made is not a real detention and nor is having a shipment not being able to fit on a van.