What holds America together?
- Thread starter aristotle
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RLENT
Veteran Expediter
I would look at it from slightly different perspective
... and pose the questions thusly:What would really hold this nation together?
What is really tearing our nation apart?
Answer to No. 1: a commonality of purpose ....
Answer to No. 2: failure to find, correctly articulate, and then make broadly known No. 1 ...
There is no common purpose. Our politicians and their fawning "subjects" are who are tearing it apart. The "gemmie" attitude rules and the scum who provides the most "freebies" will take total control and the masses will continue to adore them.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
It is the culture of diversity. I mean that we can all live together because we are not all alike.
When we stop thinking we are a unique country where we can live together because we are not all alike.
Right here is what IS tearing our nation apart. I've posted this speech a number of times, but here it is again since it still holds true in spite of being given in 2003:
Michelle Malkin » “I have a plan to destroy America” — by Richard D. Lamm
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Right where?
I didn't find any reasoning in that piece that would suggest there is a real threat. The assumption seems to be that we are being taken over by this concept of multiculturalism with an emphasis on Hispanic or Latino culture being the predominant culture which is gaining in our country which is wrong when you look at real issues.
I look around and I don't see it happening as much as people want to make it out like it is happening. I see a lack of enforcement of laws more than anything else but ...
What I also see is the same exact intermingling of cultures that have happened for almost the entire history of the country. We tend to forget the subtle ways our culture was formed, it wasn't by the WASPs of the country that allows us to flourish but those others who saw opportunity here without looking back at their own country and grabbed it.
When you go to a predomitly Polish or Italian neighborhood, you have the same thing when you go to a Mexican or an Arab neighborhood. We strive to have those in our country to assimulate but we are not like other countries that "force" assimulation. We allowed areas to form their own community, which is one of the fuondation of our country. When they form their community, it fits them, not some picture perfect world of what we want our country to look like.
Like it or not, out entire culture is a multicultural experience and unlike Mr. Lamm who just doesn't get it, we won't fail as others have because we have always been and will always be a multicultural society.
What we do have is an overindulgence in multiculturalism based on political correctness. We stepped beyond reasonable and allowed ourselves to become more polarized on the idea that we are a melting pot and then face the question when the opposition arises whether we stay the course of political correctness by opening up our borders to all or protect our country and warped culture by shutting them down completely - complete opposites have a voice, not the reasonable people.
Most of what people don't get and they become emotional about is they are acting in the same way that others have acted in the past, with fear and ignorance of something different. In the past, we contained cultures that were different than ours - mostly in slums - but then slowly allowed those cultures to move into ours. The Irish, the West Africans, Eastern Europeans and those I'talians all were confined and treated as a threat at one time or another. The difference now is they can come to one or another town as a family and start a community which doesn't sit well with those who look at an Arab and see a Muslim even if they are Christian.
BUT to go back to the OP's question, I firmly stand by my comments... in my first post.
I didn't find any reasoning in that piece that would suggest there is a real threat. The assumption seems to be that we are being taken over by this concept of multiculturalism with an emphasis on Hispanic or Latino culture being the predominant culture which is gaining in our country which is wrong when you look at real issues.
I look around and I don't see it happening as much as people want to make it out like it is happening. I see a lack of enforcement of laws more than anything else but ...
What I also see is the same exact intermingling of cultures that have happened for almost the entire history of the country. We tend to forget the subtle ways our culture was formed, it wasn't by the WASPs of the country that allows us to flourish but those others who saw opportunity here without looking back at their own country and grabbed it.
When you go to a predomitly Polish or Italian neighborhood, you have the same thing when you go to a Mexican or an Arab neighborhood. We strive to have those in our country to assimulate but we are not like other countries that "force" assimulation. We allowed areas to form their own community, which is one of the fuondation of our country. When they form their community, it fits them, not some picture perfect world of what we want our country to look like.
Like it or not, out entire culture is a multicultural experience and unlike Mr. Lamm who just doesn't get it, we won't fail as others have because we have always been and will always be a multicultural society.
What we do have is an overindulgence in multiculturalism based on political correctness. We stepped beyond reasonable and allowed ourselves to become more polarized on the idea that we are a melting pot and then face the question when the opposition arises whether we stay the course of political correctness by opening up our borders to all or protect our country and warped culture by shutting them down completely - complete opposites have a voice, not the reasonable people.
Most of what people don't get and they become emotional about is they are acting in the same way that others have acted in the past, with fear and ignorance of something different. In the past, we contained cultures that were different than ours - mostly in slums - but then slowly allowed those cultures to move into ours. The Irish, the West Africans, Eastern Europeans and those I'talians all were confined and treated as a threat at one time or another. The difference now is they can come to one or another town as a family and start a community which doesn't sit well with those who look at an Arab and see a Muslim even if they are Christian.
BUT to go back to the OP's question, I firmly stand by my comments... in my first post.
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Ahhh .... but there is ... and it is a purpose which is common to, and inherent in, all of mankind, as it is man's natural state: to be free
Perhaps one of the most inspiring statements I have ever heard on this, and on the struggle and fight for freedom generally, was given by Dr. Jonas Savimbi, guerilla fighter, and the leader of the National Union for the Total Independence of Angola (UNITA), at a dinner, while visiting the (Reagan) White House:
"..... all of mankind, they want to have ... a right to a decent life .... the right to decide for their own future ... the right to have a family ... to own property, to sell it, to leave it for the children .... everybody ... dey want dat ... and they know that can only be obtained only within the organization of a democratic society ...
..... in this instant my mind goes back to my father ... my father was a Protestant minister .... he taught me to fight for freedom. He taught me to be brave ... he died in jail in 1973 .... because of my struggle ....
What is Savimbi ? .... I am now 51 .... I have been in the struggle for 28 years ... since 1958 when I left my country ... I spend most of my time .... fighting ... in the jungle ....
I don't think I have lost anything ... I gained most of the things, because I have reposed within myself, my resolve, to fight against foreign domination .... but it is my belief that I cannot lead my people from outside ..... I never did it - I will never do that - it is inconsistent with my philosophy.
I want to fight, and I want to go into Angola, to lead my people in Angola .... and if, tomorrow, you hear that I'm dead it will be in the trench with my men ... because I have no right to send other people to die for freedom, and myself, to be safe, somewhere .... I want to be in front.
Unless we defend freedom all over, we may not have freedom anywhere.
When I left, because this journey is a long journey .... to come out from where I have been living, I had to go to see my mother .... she is 86 ... and I told her I am going to America .... then my mother said:
"Tell all our friends .... those who know us, and those who do not know us, that we want to be free ... and give them our greetings."
I'm giving you the greetings from my mother, I thank you very much."
Dr. Jonas Malheiro Savimbi, 3 August 1934 - 22 February 2002
Nope, don't agree. I see MILLIONS willingly give up their freedom to be CARED for. They sit for a lifetime on welfare. They BEG for FREE health care, food stamps, rent support and free cell phones.
A person who loved freedom would fight tooth and nail to "do it on their own". Self reliant people a repulsed by hand outs. They would prefer to do without.
Freedom loving people would NOT be willing to give up the right to keep and bare arms. They would NOT vote for those who would.
If this was a Nation that still valued freedom we would NOT have this congress or Obama in office.
A person who loved freedom would fight tooth and nail to "do it on their own". Self reliant people a repulsed by hand outs. They would prefer to do without.
Freedom loving people would NOT be willing to give up the right to keep and bare arms. They would NOT vote for those who would.
If this was a Nation that still valued freedom we would NOT have this congress or Obama in office.
Maybe you are right, I hope so. As I have in one of my sign out sayings:
Don't get me wrong, I am well aware that there are people out there that are too ill, either in mind or body, to care for themselves. Far too many, most likely a majority of those "seeking help", are "scamming the system. Far too many thing that they are "OWED" others hard earned wages.
I like a man I knew in PA. Very much retarded with physical problems to go with it. That MAN volunteered with the local fire department. He could not fight fire but he could role hose and polish trucks. He worked a job. Yes, he got some government help but he did ALL he could on his own. THAT is to be respected. He puts those who seek handouts to shame.
True Freedom is found only in Self-Reliance
Don't get me wrong, I am well aware that there are people out there that are too ill, either in mind or body, to care for themselves. Far too many, most likely a majority of those "seeking help", are "scamming the system. Far too many thing that they are "OWED" others hard earned wages.
I like a man I knew in PA. Very much retarded with physical problems to go with it. That MAN volunteered with the local fire department. He could not fight fire but he could role hose and polish trucks. He worked a job. Yes, he got some government help but he did ALL he could on his own. THAT is to be respected. He puts those who seek handouts to shame.
I couldn't disagree more, and we don't have to go any farther than AZ or CA to prove the point. Take a look at the illegal Mexicans pouring into the American southwest, overwhelming our emergency rooms, schools, and the resources of various social services - all the while demanding that we establish classes taught in Spanish and have signs, packages, etc. printed in Spanish to accommodate them. They have no intention of acclimating themselves to American culture, and this current phenomenon in no way resembles "the same exact intermingling of cultures" that we've witnessed in the past. It's plain as day that they're NOT INTERMINGLING - they're establishing separate cultural islands within our society, and in no way resemble the LEGAL immigrants that came through Ellis Island to become Americans.
Gov. Lamm gets it perfectly, and he points out that in many cases the cultures are at odds with the American way of life instead of existing in harmony with it as in years past. Every day we read about communities going to extremes to accommodate muslims' demands involving everything from dress codes in airports to attempting the imposition of Sharia law.
Exactly right. We have been so overwhelmed with the cancerous concept of Political Correctness that it's dissolving the social glue that's held our society together since the country's inception. A country simply cannot exist while trying to accommodate different languages and cultural identities. Just take a look at France and Germany right now; for those who think the cultural melting pot in America is still the same as always, I'd suggest the situation in Europe could give us a look at what our future could be like.
Another interesting article on this same subject: Multiculturalism Has Failed - Page 1 - Emmett Tyrrell - Townhall Conservative
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Dood,
You might be reading that sorta thing every day ..... but I sure ain't ..... so drop the "we" already ....
The above statement might say less about the (supposed) issue that you are trying to assert exists ...... than it does about what you choose to read ....
Doing the all-rabid, all-the-time Islamophobia thing as far as your choices in reading content is likely going to give a certain result .... shouldn't be a big surprise ....
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RLENT
Veteran Expediter
BTW, just so everyone here can understand your own personal responsibility level in the matter you are so concerned about:
What have you personally done to help, or ensure that, those you mentioned, assimilate here ?
It's fairly obvious, to me at least, that there many who ain't exactly throwing out the welcome mat ......
What have you personally done to help, or ensure that, those you mentioned, assimilate here ?
It's fairly obvious, to me at least, that there many who ain't exactly throwing out the welcome mat ......
BTW, just so everyone here can understand your own personal responsibility level in the matter you are so concerned about:
What have you personally done to help, or ensure that, those you mentioned, assimilate here ?
It's fairly obvious, to me at least, that there many who ain't exactly throwing out the welcome mat ......
lol most on here just whine about the "good old days". It's like a VFW hall.
witness23
Veteran Expediter
Demanding classes being taught in Spanish? Where exactly is this happening? I know Glenn Beck told us not to use Google, but I Googled, "Schools required to teach in Spanish". I couldn't find anything. Can you point me in the direction were I might find this information?
Did you ever think that those, "signs, packages, etc.," are printed in Spanish so that they can sell more of their products? Or that those "packages" either originated in a Spanish speaking country or may just be going to a Spanish speaking country.
Extremes? Would you happen to have sources for these things you speak of?
Social glue is holding this country together, and politcal correctness is dissolving it? You should add that to the
What holds America together? thread.
witness23
Veteran Expediter
lol......I used to belong the Eagles but stopped going about 12 years ago, just for that reason. I belong to the VFW also, but I've only gone there 3 times in the last 5 years, for the same reason.
Dang it, I hate those quote boxes - they completely defeat my "ignore" option (maybe Lawrence or somebody can correct that). But when I see a question/comment that's so pointless and inane I just can't resist responding with a blinding glimpse of the obvious.
Q: "What have you personally done to help, or ensure that, those you mentioned, assimilate here ?"
A: NOT A D*MN THING. It's not my responsibility to help or ensure that immigrants - especially illegal ones - assimilate into our culture. It's THEIR responsibility to learn English, the cultural customs and the laws of the land. If they're willing to fulfill these basic requirements they should be treated equally as fellow US citizens, and many have done just that over the years. Now, if anyone wants to work for ICE or take on such a task as a charitable cause they're certainly free to do so.
Regarding "whining": it really is obvious the way liberals create labels to trivialize an argument for which they don't have a legitimate response; kind of like "hate speech" - anything said that runs counter to their point of view. I suppose if one of these illegal Mexicans breaks into someone's house and steals everything not nailed down, the homeowner should go "whining" to the police.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Actually this statement made everything you said in your defense of your post meaningless.
The actual immigration experience wasn't close to what is being portrayed on radio and tv shows or in our history books. Shows Like I remember Mama and Life with Luigi made it look like there was a coming together of sorts with different ethnic groups and cultures but that was no where close to the truth.
See when they came through Ellis Island and other ports of entry, they stuck together. They created their own cultural islands among our communities and even today there is still in many areas of the country the same thing as it was 100 years ago. JUST because they were legal, didn't mean they became assimilated quickly or at all. Today I went past a home down in Hamtramck I used to visit when I was a kid. The person who I went to see was the maternal grandmother of a friend and she spoke very little English but spoke German, Polish and Croatian which I understood. She didn't learn much English even though she was here since 1938 because the community was Polish, her paper was in Polish, the radio station was in Polish, and everyone she talked to spoke Polish. When she came over, this was a strong polish community, not an American community like say the other side of Woodward. This was just like the Italian community, the black community and other ethnic communities which were islands within the city. So today this is a bad thing, those eastern Europeans not assimilating into our culture, they are bad people.
I truly think that people forget the past.
They forget how life was say in the 50's or 40's. How you had a complete community that had everything you ever were going to need, from car dealers to doctors to grocers. Many in the community didn't even own a car, let alone need to drive one to get say Milk. I knew people in NYC area who said outside of the military, they have never left the place they were born and raised and died there. Some lived right across the street from where they were born. SO today, we are a mobile society, expecting to see the same thing whether we are in East LA or Dallas or Fargo. We don't expect or even comprehend what communities are any more which is part of the bigger problem overall but for some claim it is the church, many miss that being the same doesn't mean being a community and they can't understand what it was all about.
Whoa, Lamm is so frinkn' out of touch with reality.
I have yet seen one culture that is at odds with the American way of life. NOT one.
Let's see ... "instead of existing in harmony with it as in years past." he has no clue of history, does he - I'm not surprised.
I can bring up a lot of examples. One of them is obvious, the interment of Japanese, Italian and Germans during the war (actually the Germans were interned during the first war too). How about the riots in LA and San Diego during the late 30's and early 40's or the crime against Chinese during the turn of the 20th century. All of these were not where they were not trying to live in harmony but rather Americans didn't take too kindly to these groups of people. American Indians are another group where we failed to force them to assimilate. I know that isn't an immigration issue but you know we hold them in a form of slavery by forcing them to live on land they don't really own, and this forces them not to assimilate - pretty much what was done when we allowed massive slums in NYC to be populated with immigrants.
The problem is more likely than not the immigrant brought their experiences and background to the country enhanced it and we can't or don't know how to embrace it. There really isn't existing in Harmony as he wants us to believe but rather there is a compromise and slow assimilation that takes place. FOR EXAMPLE, the Irish took almost 75 years to be considered more than a dirty immigrant, the Italian more than 50 years and Eastern Europeans about 40 years - EACH group was looked upon the same way when there was a large influx of immigration during that time - starting in the 1840's with the Irish. The reduction in the time wasn't due to the fact that the immigrant changed but the country did change, like communications and travel time was reduced. RIGHT now I expect that my social-economic position is rather correct when I say that we expect instant gratification and instant results for those things that take time to adjust and because there is more of an issue within large groups of people, a lot of others play off this crap as being detrimental to the country and culture as a whole while demanding there is more of a need to see changes made to "protect" our culture even though our culture does not need protection.
Actually I haven't read any story like that in a long long time. Many don't even bother to figure out what sharia law is or how it is already here in other forms in other religions. We tend to jump on things as if they are so d*mn bad that the world is going to end if we allow this or that to happen. I listened to Hannity the other day and wanted to slap that a**. He was saying the cause of some reporter's rape in Egypt was a direct cause of sharia law, but no one seems to have figured out that they don't like reporters - even Muslim reporters and the rape was one form of punishment that they felt she deserved. NOT my idea of punishment but it could happen in Russia, Japan, and the EU for that matter under the same circumstances.
If you spent time in these communities, you can tell the difference between one Muslim and another. Hamtramck where I keep my truck has Yemenis living there, Dearborn is where I shop has Iraqis, Iranians and Syrians (and Lebanese). Two different worlds, two completely different communities but I don't see where I have to stop what I'm doing when call for pray goes out. No one has forced me to convert or to act as if I had to follow sharia law. Amazing.
I agree with the political correctness statement but I don't about the language and culture. You lump accommodation and community into one thing when it is several different things.
Well not really a good example.
See maybe you forgot but the national movement in Germany has been strong, even among the former east Germans, there was a lot of problems that came up with integration of the two Germanys. There were a lot of issues with Pakistanis and Indians (among other groups) who went there to work, a lot of violence against them - even killing and raping.
France still to this day has an attitude when it comes down to immigrant and because they were pretty much a homogeneous culture, assimilation was demanded by the French while they didn't provide means to become assimilated - one example is a lack of jobs and the restrictions the French have in finding work if you are say Moroccan or Algerian.