Waterboarding is torture says McCain

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
We only sink to their level if we torture children and innocents. Harshly interrogating terrorists is NOTHING like being at their level. Harshly interrogating terrorists is also nothing like torturing them although were they alive even torturing bin Laden or al Said or other top terrorists would not put us at their level either.
Again, largely just a bunch of blah-blah rhetoric .... a statement and an assertion .... it contains absolutely no reasoning or sound logical argument whatsoever to back it up ....

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” - Joseph Goebbels, former Reich Minister of Propaganda in Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945​

On the matter of "torture" of children and innocents - do you really want me to post actual pictures of the butchery, to which you and others apparently turn a blind eye ?

I suspect, like other things, you'll take a pass ...... :rolleyes:
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
OK, here is one from my world. My job, for 5 years, was targeting our nukes. If I had too I would have did my best to wipe out as many Russians, military and otherwise, as I could. At a moments, notice.
You're oversimplifying and leaving out much in your pretty little ditty above - first and foremost, is that your job was as but a tool .... a mere cog in the wheels of a machine ...... of a defense strategy commonly known as:

M.A.D. (Mutual Assured Destruction)

It is, I should note, most appropriately named ... as for anyone to actually execute a nuclear response to a attack (nuclear or otherwise) by another major nuclear power - given the likelihood that it could result in escalation to a point to achieve mutual assured destruction ..... they would have to be quite mad indeed .....

The premise of that strategy, was to ensure peace through the prospect and possibility of retaliation - with complete and utter annihilation to the party who would attack first.

The point was entirely to not fight .... quite simply because with thermonuclear war, the likely result is that there would be no winners ...... only losers .....

IOW, you have the weapons - not to actually use them - but to keep someone else from using theirs.

As pointed out above, since there would be no victors, only total destruction of both sides (as well as perhaps others, due to nuclear fallout rendering this planet uninhabitable and life impossible), anyone actually considering pulling the trigger would have to be considered, by the remainder of humanity, as certifiably insane ....

As Albert Einstein, one of the great thinkers of our day, likely correctly observed:

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"

And that's only if we're extremely lucky .....

I could do it, could you?
Men who can be trained (much like Pavlov's dog) to unthinkingly act without restraint and without regard to ultimate consequences may very well have a legitimate and valid use to the human species ..... but they, necessarily, should be kept on very short leashes .... preferably fitted with a choke collar that has many very sharp spikes pointing inward .... one that is periodically given a strong jerk, that they might understand their place in the big scheme of things .....

Dress anything up in patriotism, country, the flag, Mom, and apple pie and I can guarantee you that there will be no shortage of takers ..... but the asylums are full of lunatics talking about the martians that are following them too ...

However these folks (not those in the asylums ..... but the ones that aren't .... but likely should be), being the less rational (and perhaps more emotional) among us, are not the type of people who ought to be entrusted with certain decisions (going to, and engaging in, war .... certainly being one of them)

That is the reality of the world. Life, and death, is tough and real. Not fairy tale books.
As a totally and brutally honest (as well as entirely practical) matter, one could say that such folks as above are perfectly fine for ........ cannon fodder ...

Given their aggressive and warlike tendencies, the remainder of civilized humanity would likely be well-served, and quite possibly better off, if we allowed them to fight and kill each other off ....

The only problem with that idea, is that such folks - not being the brightest bulbs in the candelabra - tend to create a very dangerous environment for all, ruin playing fields and gameboards, and involve others who would prefer not to participate in the dramatization of their insanities ....

That is the reality of the world.
 
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LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. Barry Goldwater

Short version of the answer, because I say so. I have neither the patience nor the interest in all the typing for a more detailed reply.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. Barry Goldwater
Often incorrectly interpreted to mean, "The ends justify the means."
Short version of the answer, because I say so. I have neither the patience nor the interest in all the typing for a more detailed reply.
Oh, well, in that case, that's good enough for me. You've opened my eyes and changed my mind with such a persuasive argument. I mean, wow, "because I say so." The brilliance of simplicity, the genius of uncluttered reason, the insightful laser focus of critical thinking. It never occurred to me that, "because I say so," could be so powerful a motivating force, one that doesn't accept questioning nor require any burden of proof. It's deity-like. Brilliant, just brilliant. I like it.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Often incorrectly interpreted to mean, "The ends justify the means."
Oh, well, in that case, that's good enough for me. You've opened my eyes and changed my mind with such a persuasive argument. I mean, wow, "because I say so." The brilliance of simplicity, the genius of uncluttered reason, the insightful laser focus of critical thinking. It never occurred to me that, "because I say so," could be so powerful a motivating force, one that doesn't accept questioning nor require any burden of proof. It's deity-like. Brilliant, just brilliant. I like it.

My parents liked it a lot too, and after the first few repetitions, didn't have to accompany it with a 'spanking', either.
But in a duel of the quotes, I gotta go with Einstein, because anyone who looks like that has to be pretty confident to speak in public. ;)
 

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
But in a duel of the quotes, I gotta go with Einstein, because anyone who looks like that has to be pretty confident to speak in public. ;)

Just had to make sure everyone had a visual.

1213878213516_f.jpg
 
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