van line haul distance

[RLENT]

You guys don't get it ....

Ahhh, but I think we do ....

vans are regulated the same way as trucks but they are regulated to the full extent. If they want to regulated vans, all the states have to do is change their laws and that's it.

I will assume that above you meant to say: ".... they aren't regulated to the full extent."

That would be true - however, the fact that seems to be being missed is that we as individuals, should not be not entirely powerless as regards the actions and the power of the State over us. The State itself is a creation of the people, and they are the source of it's power.

We work in a regulated industry because we choose to, no one makes us.

That is true - however one should never lose sight of the fact, that any regulation that governs us, we ourselves have chosen to submit to.

We can also chose not to submit, and can work to gain agreement by the majority of citizens to change whatever the current circumstances are - nothing is foregone conclusion.

I have the freedom to decide how and where to drive my truck but I can't decide to take household goods, or truck things across state lines without permits (another freedom lost?).

I would certainly say that your freedom is less than it would otherwise be, were that not to be the case.

You have to operate under the same exact regulations as I do - no exception.

That statement on the face of it is true - however if the point that you are trying to make is that all regulations apply to all vehicles, in all cases, under all circumstances, then you are absolutely in error.

The constitution doesn't see the vehicle, it doesn't say vans are exempt while trains are not.

No, you are right - the Constitution doesn't see the vehicle - however the regulations (at least in the case of the FMCSR's, and probably mostly in the states as well) do indeed see the vehicle - spelling out quite specifically what regulations do apply to particular vehicles, and which ones don't.

That is why the FMCSR's define what is a commercial vehicle (which our vans are) and what is a commercial motor vehicle (which our vans are not, unless they happen to be carrying a placardable amount of Haz-Mat)

Commercial vehicles, and commercial motor vehicles are not the same thing under the law.

It says the feds have the right to regulate interstate commerce, and in doing so, if it is a horse and buggy, train or tricycle bringing commercial goods across state lines - they have the right to regulated it.

Ahhhh .... there is a fundamental misconception - at least from my point of view (you might just consider it to be semantics however)

The Feds have the authority to regulate (as do the States) - not the right - to say that they have the right would be to say that the power to regulate is inherent, whereas that is clearly not true - since they have that authority only as a consequence of it being granted to them by the people.

Since the people could, in theory, change their minds at any time and revise law, it is not a right - but merely the granting of authority. The two are not the same - not even close.

Where as Rlen'ts argument is they are taking freedoms away just like they are on the 2nd amendment - its wrong.

No .... not "just like" ..... but it would be similar to.

The similarity is that both are a reduction in freedom.

There are no freedoms being regulated, your commercial vehicle is just that, a commercial vehicle and falls under the same laws as my truck.

This would seem to indicate a fundamental misunderstanding about the nature of freedom .....

One cannot place a restriction on someone .... and then in the next breath say: "You are free ....."

That just isn't the way that freedom works.

 

[RLENT]

Would that same van driver be able to avoid the accident in the first 100 miles? Maybe he would due to less fatigue. Too many variables and no way to know of course but almost certainly he wouldn't be more likely to wreck at the beginning of the trip.

Not necessarily the case: what if a driver (could be a van driver - or a big truck driver who is regulated) is sleeping and gets called for an immediate pickup - he's just been sound asleep and is waking up ..... you figure that he is more alert at mile 1 ...... or at mile 50 - after he has had a chance to fully wake up ?

The above is real world ..... it does indeed happen.

 

[LDB]

In the real world, based on my experience since that is what I know absolutely, when awakened from a deep sleep it did take a little bit to become fully awake. That was during the time I was getting dressed, making a pit stop, checking the vehicle over before starting/driving, getting my log up to date, grabbing a drink and maybe a snack and whatever else I had to do before driving. By the time the wheels actually rolled I was awake and alert. All circumstances are unique. That is why I said that almost certainly the driver would be less likely to have an accident at the beginning of the trip than in mile 6xx under HOS or mile 9xx in a van.