Van (A-B unit) questions

[D Team Brothers]

I keep seeing threads talk about vans and their GVW. The issue surrounds above or below 10001lbs GVW. I'm curious because; vans don't need to scale if they are not doing a hazmat run (correct?), and they do not need to log if not doing a hazmat run (correct?), so what difference does the GVW make as long as it's under 26000lbs (CDL). Another ? is; do a/b units require apportioned plates for traveling country wide, or just normal commercial and do they have to do the fuel/tax payments? Always curious, have a great day!

 

[greg334]

>I keep seeing threads talk about vans and their GVW. The issue >surrounds above or below 10001lbs GVW.

>Vans don't need to scale if they are not doing a hazmat run?

Some states require all commercial vehicles to scale, Michigan, Kentucky and Alabama to mention a few.

>They do not need to log if not doing a hazmat run?

I think the only state that you have to log in is Alabama. I also think that Virginia or WV – someone correct me if I am wrong.

>So what difference does the GVW make as long as it's under 26000lbs?

The difference is the insurance companies and the laws. Under CDL may be good for someone who stays in Michigan but to go to Ohio and you should have a CDL. Also Insurance companies want to limit the liability on their insurance member and have specific rules about drivers.

>do a/b units require apportioned plates for traveling country wide, >or just normal commercial and do they have to do the fuel/tax >payments?

No as far as I know except Michigan levies a ‘fee’ (really it is a tax) for intrastate deliveries, the infamous MPSC sticker. I may be wrong – so someone correct me.

Hope this helps.

 

[highway star]

We don't have to scale in Kentucky anymore.

 

[fastman_1]

if your GVW Is 10,001 or higher you have to log also Alabama Requires all Vans to Log.








































Owner/Operator since 1979
Expediter since 1997
B Unit Semi Retired
Somedays are Diamonds and Somedays are Stones
Home is Wherever you Park.

 

[Packmule]

How can AL. require you to log in a Van if it is not required in other states? Do you just start your log when entering AL.? "Well I'm going through Bama....better start up a log...Hummm where was I 7 days ago....or even Two days ago..Guess I was out of service til I got to Bama State line, Yeah that's the ticket, Out of service!!"

Logging is a Federal DOT requirement and should be the same from State to State just as testing for CDL's or drivers Permits. It is a universal test from state to state,SAME TEST, SAME QUESTIONS, SAME REQUIREMENTS!
Speed limites, load limites and road taxes can be set by the State but DOT requirements are set by the Federal goverment. Scaleing Vans to check weights is within the States rights but requireing Log books in just that State to me is not right.
I can't remember seeing a Van cross the Scales in any State, but I have seen them pass the scales in the fast lane while I pulled in!
I know this is not real world happenings but I don't understand, nor agree with this.
X-plain it to me.......so's a dumb ole' country boy like me can understand.?!?!?

Dan

 

[nighttrain]

was in a b cargo van didnt have to scale or do logs
but in michigan i know u have to scale a cargo van
and with fed ex cc i know they told me when i was on a hazmat run i would have to log
but if its an open cargo van there are some hazmat loads
i wouldnt want in the back of my truck without some sort of bulk head
plus u cant use a cargo van i belive on hazmat loads that are inhaltion hazmat
so best bet dont do hazmat loads
thats why i went back to a c truck more money to begin with and safer for all loads
i know i didnt make nothing in a cargo van spent most of it on fuel
but i didnt stick with it long enough to find out if i could make money went back to a c truck

 

[raceman]

Folks I wish I could give you the answer but I know nothing about van laws or regulations. I do know how to be sure things are done according to regs and or law and that is ask the DOT.
Reading some of the back and forth here it sounds as though you are dealing with questions that if answered wrong may get you a fine or ticket or maybe worse. I recommend asking the DOT and then you are by the book and you will have no worries.
If you do this stuff wrong esp. the HAZMAT, you can be in big trouble.
Just my advice. Heck you can email them your question and they get back to you pretty quick. Good Luck

Raceman
OTR O/O

 

[greg334]

OK, lets see....

Alabama, I do what Terry suggested - I am off duty until I pick up the load I have on my van. I was there last week, scaled and had to go in. The officer was nice and asked for my log, all in order, but he laughed at the horrible writing I have. He asked about the off duty part and I explained to him that I did not have to log in any other state except this, so according to the MSP, it is off duty time which is where the van is from. No problems there. States can have laws that are different from the feds, the fed level laws are sometimes just guidelines for stricter laws.

Packmule, I agree with you but I got to point out that the CDL requirements and testing has some variations to it state by state.

Kentucky, told to scale - I scale. Have not been yelled at yet and when I am, I will deal with it. I know a lot of people say not to scale but I look at it this way, easier to get yelled at than to try to talk yourself out of a ticket.

 

[cheri1122]

Dan, the scenario you mention happened to me, except it was a hazmat load. I began my log on that day, because I knew how to log legally, knew I couldn't 'recreate' the last seven days accurately, and knew I didn't want to be busted for fictitious entries on a legal document. I got checked at the scale, and was put out of service for 10 hrs, because I couldn't prove I hadn't been driving too many hours. I asked the officer how I could legally log the prior seven days, since I don't normally log, and he said the only way is to log all the time anyway. I posted the question here, and got the answer I needed: you can post 'off duty' for the prior seven days, because as far as logging goes, you WERE off duty.
Had the safety dept at the carrier I drove for mentioned that in orientation, it would have saved us all a lot of aggravation, as I could not deliver the load, and they had to arrange for a transfer at the scale, because I wasn't allowed to move the van.
Thanks to EO, that will never happen again, to me at least.

 

[nightcreacher]

you must enter all scales that say all commercial vehicles,some say over 8000 lbs
if inhalation haz,in a van you wont be asked to haul,its a white glove load,they have no vans,at least not in Fed Ex CC
if state requires a van to log,it's a state law ,not federal
if I were driving a van I would always log,to difficult to keep up with all the different state laws
good luck

 

[nighttrain]

well i know was told at cc that if it was a hazmat load i had to log plus do a prior 7 day log or maybe it was cause i went back to a c unit
but basically it was just to let dot and them know i wasnt drivin in a truck that i had to log
but as for fed ex not havin vans that were white glove they do have them was a few times waiting for loads and checked the vru and they said what type of vans a/b and some of them were white glove vans
and talked with a guy in white glove and he told me they did have vans that where white glove vans wanted to know what it took to make a van a white glove van but told that were putting anymore vans on in white glove at that time
but im still trying to figure out how people put a team in a cargo van cause i know the van i was in holy cow barely had enough room for me.
but as for taking hazmat loads since the van i was in didnt have a bulk head to seperate the driverand sleeper from cargo area i wouldnt have taken one just to be on the safe side so if that meant i were to sit a few extra hours or days so be it

i think they should not be allowed to transport hazmat in cargo vans unless the cargo area and driver area are seperate with some sort of bulk head

 

[fastrod]

cherri 1122 I think the officer was right. If you are going to do any logs you should log all the time. I was told the same thing by a DOT officer in Pa. One other thing, if you do not have company stickers all over the van you can bypass any scale and nobody cares.

 

[guest]

from what i heard they are going to make it that any commercial vehicle must cross scales
that includes pickup trucks with traliors with lawn equipment on it as long as they have commercial plates or the vehicle is used for commerical uses
really not sure the true details but this is what i had heard

just another example of our fine goverment giving the working man a harder time to make a living

 

[tyoung]

i drive a b-unit for fedex.i have some questions concerning logging.some of the drivers here say to log all the time.my first question is how can i do that and stay legal? one of the good things about a van is NOT having to follow HOS rules.now,correct me if i am wrong,but if i log all the time,how can i possibly stay legal(or make money?) ? some of the time after i finish a run,i get another one within hrs.also,i have been told that even though i do have a permanent bunk in my van,it is not DOT approved and therefore cannot be logged as sleeper berth time.if this is true,how else would i log it to conform with HOS rules? again,if i am wrong ,please let me know.i do have some time driving a d-unit,so i know about HOS.

 

[greg334]

>i drive a b-unit for fedex.i have some questions concerning
>logging.some of the drivers here say to log all the time.my
>first question is how can i do that and stay legal? one of
>the good things about a van is NOT having to follow HOS
>rules.now,correct me if i am wrong,but if i log all the
>time,how can i possibly stay legal(or make money?) ? some of
>the time after i finish a run,i get another one within
>hrs.also,i have been told that even though i do have a
>permanent bunk in my van,it is not DOT approved and
>therefore cannot be logged as sleeper berth time.if this is
>true,how else would i log it to conform with HOS rules?
>again,if i am wrong ,please let me know.i do have some time
>driving a d-unit,so i know about HOS.

I know everyone will have differeing opinions here but logging in a van is difficult if not impossible. I stick to what i was told by Terry and the officer in Alabama, off duty except for that load where logging is needed.

Logging all the time opens the doors to the sleeper issue, unless you have a box truck or modify the van in such a way to accomidate the width of the bed, a legal sleeper is impossible to have.

 

[Packmule]

WOW! Now wouldn't that back the scales up. I can see Gary's Green thumb Landscaping service pulling out his LOG book... Does driving a lawnmower for 8 hours have to be logged as In service Driving??
The only rational to this would be more opportunities for the state to collect revenue through fines on the working man. Ha, but let a disastor hit their state and they could give a D@^^$ if you've driven 24 hours and are way over axel limites...Just get us the freight we need, NOW!!!

By the way Greg, I confirmed that CDL testing and requirements ARE indeed the same from State to State. States cannot change these Federal Regulations and requirements set by the US Dept. of Transportation. Log books are under the jurisdistion of the Federal gov. A State should not be able to require a Van to provide a Log anymore than a State being able to NOT require a 26000+GVW truck to log in that State.
This was Stated by a DOT Officer at the Scale house in SC who made a call to his Commanding officer for clarification. State DOT officers and Federal Dot officers are not the same,even though they work hand in hand. One guess as to who has the most authority in a State.

Of course this changes nothing, we still have to follow the requirements of which goverment has set what and where, or pay the conseqinces.

Keep on Truckin'
Dan

 

[RichM]

It's just a question of time until someone driving a van for Joe Bobs Express rams a school bus or a church bus and kills a bunch of children. An investigation will show the driver had been on the road driving for 30 hours,the van was overweight and had lousy tires and brakes.
The media will make this into a issue and the DOT will require all vehicles used in commercial operations to log.

Now Joe Bob's brother, Joe Six Pack can work a double shift,come home load the family into his 20 year old RV and head for 24 hours of straight driving to get somewhere.

Meanwhile Joe Bob's surgeon is doing his 10th procedure and has been operating on patients for 30 hours straight.

 

[cheri1122]

And police officers are working 2 jobs, collecting all the overtime they can get, and carrying a gun around, with the discretionary power that invokes....

 

[fastrod]

If you mark your log sheets as off duty and you were doing runs during that time then you are guilty of false log sheets. It applies even to vans. If you have an accident and those logs are checked and do not match your company records your in big trouble.

 

[cheri1122]

You are saying that a major carrier's safety dept is advising drivers to log illegally, when they say that you can log 'off duty' on the grounds that you were off duty, as far as logging is concerned? Or have I got something mixed up?