Using the F word... fair warning

[davekc]

I would say Turtle is spot on. I think he stole that from me. Our illegal immigrant problem is a testament to it. We had numerous jobs available several years ago, and too many "didn't wanna".
Rather than actually working for or towards something, too many feel they are entitled to it right from the get go.
Social programs have their place, but they have been long in need of a overhaul.

 

[MrGautama]

Now, who you do suppose I stole all of the above from?

It can't come from "Hate TV" because it's deeply rational and non dogmatic, so it must be yours!.


I understand what you said about the moon deal and you are right at pointing out the implications when dealing with people instead of physics. It was just to convey the American spirit that anything is possible which has been there for us in our darkest moments.

I also know the limitations of any social program, of course we will always encounter the severely antisocial that no matter what we do they won't be a part of and will only be there for the free ride; the question is what's the actual number of those in comparison with the total population in need?. Are we punishing a whole lot of people with second class social programs for the faults of a minority?.

I think that the full employment experiment would be a good way of knowing the answer.

 

[MrGautama]

Our illegal immigrant problem is a testament to it. We had numerous jobs available several years ago, and too many "didn't wanna".

Interesting take, are those jobs in the agricultural sector?, if so any idea what's the hourly rate for picking strawberries in California?; I honestly have no idea.

Rather than actually working for or towards something, too many feel they are entitled to it right from the get go.

How many?, what percentage of the population in need?

Social programs have their place, but they have been long in need of a overhaul.

Agree 100%

 

[MrGautama]

From a totally Darwinian stance it's simple yes there is no moral question about it. It might take a few decades for the weak to die off or getstronger might have to build a few more jails but it actually would work.

I am going to ask you something very personal so feel free not to respond: Are you a Christian?

 

[aristotle]

What i am seeing in this thread is a "coming-out party" for brazen, godless liberals. Every single one of them is a direct beneficiary of Christianity's role in American life, law and culture. As imperfect as it may be, the overwhelming influence of Christianity has been the single greatest force for good the world has ever known. The secular humanists apparently acknowledge no God but themselves. What folly!

 

[greg334]

I am going to ask you something very personal so feel free not to respond: Are you a Christian?

Brings up a very good question, Are You?

 

[letzrockexpress]

You're right, none of the current programs are working. But none of the previous programs worked, either, and in every single case, the proposed and implemented remedy was to throw more money at the problem.

That is why the Libertarian philosphy is so appealing. The more I read about it the more I like it..

 

[greg334]

Wouldn't the libertarian philosophy simply be not to have the programs at all?

 

[letzrockexpress]

Wouldn't the libertarian philosophy simply be not to have the programs at all?

yeah, that's what I mean...no programs no problems.

 

[letzrockexpress]

What i am seeing in this thread is a "coming-out party" for brazen, godless liberals. Every single one of them is a direct beneficiary of Christianity's role in American life, law and culture. As imperfect as it may be, the overwhelming influence of Christianity has been the single greatest force for good the world has ever known. The secular humanists apparently acknowledge no God but themselves. What folly!

Tecumseh might have begged to differ with you...

I think you're showing your Kentucky upbringin'...not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[Turtle]

From a totally Darwinian stance it's simple yes there is no moral question about it. It might take a few decades for the weak to die off or getstronger might have to build a few more jails but it actually would work.

I am going to ask you something very personal so feel free not to respond: Are you a Christian?

Christianity really has nothing to do with it, unless you start applying it to preferentially alter Natural Selection. Evolution is what it is. The strong survive, the weak perish, and those strong who are left will reproduce strong offspring who share the same traits. If you are more naturally suited or can successfully adapt to survive the environment, you'll survive, and those who are not able to adapt will perish, removing the weak from the species, strengthening the species as a whole. This applies to the physical evolution of life, but it also directly applies to societal evolution, as well, where you can swap "species" for "society" and the rules still apply.

If you start messing with natural selection, preferentially choosing the weak to enable them to survive where they would otherwise perish, the species (or society) population becomes weaker, as they will multiply likewise offspring who share the same traits.

Without even knowing what Evolution was, the selective breeding programs of black slaves in this country is a perfect example of this, where weaker slaves were not allowed (or were discouraged) to breed, and the stronger slaves were preferentially bred for certain traits. As a result, blacks were able to survive slavery, even triumph over it, and we now have many blacks that are bigger, stronger, and certainly more athletic than their ancestors or African contemporaries. And it had very real societal implications. There's a reason that blacks are 10% of the population, yet make up 90% of the Final Four.

Morality and compassion is in many ways in direct opposition to the brutal, ruthlessness of natural selection. Humans have a long history of applying morality and compassion to give preferential treatment to the weak. And that's fine, as we are still evolving, just differently than with natural selection. But, when you employ emotionally-based preferential selection, you have to be prepared for the consequences, good and bad. When an individual uses compassion and morality to preferentially select another individual for survival, the consequences are usually considered, and are almost always manageable. But when society at large gets morality and compassion marching orders (from the government or other leaders), in most cases, the consequences are not considered beyond the morality and compassion of the deed itself. They say we'll deal with the consequences later, but they never do, and the preferential weak will drain on society, weakening society, diluting society. And evolution being what it is, the drain itself is reproduced, multiplied, and becomes an exponential drain on the strong who are having to support the weak, further weakening the species (society).

Applying morality and compassion to individuals in society is fine. That's what we do. It's one of the things that makes us what we are. The problem comes when the consequences are dismissed as being irrelevant, not considered, or worse, to pretend they don't exist.

 

[DougTravels]

What i am seeing in this thread is a "coming-out party" for brazen, godless liberals. Every single one of them is a direct beneficiary of Christianity's role in American life, law and culture. As imperfect as it may be, the overwhelming influence of Christianity has been the single greatest force for good the world has ever known. The secular humanists apparently acknowledge no God but themselves. What folly!

I am a brazen moderate democrat. As far as being godless, It would be nice if some people on 911 had been godless or allahless. How many more wars in the name of god do we need to make people see that. All the Christians believe that all people of other faiths will burn in hell. They all believe that christians won' be at the their big party. You believe that the day of reckoning is coming, well that is probably true, but it will come because of a Horrific Holy War. Call me godless if you want, I will take it as a compliment!

You seem to forget though I do answer to a higher power.



THE ALL POWERFULL

THE

GREAT

GAZOO





For god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life -John 3:16

Answer me a question about this above. Thats it, just believe and you are in? Thats what it says right? Gods Words Right?

So 1 believer lives a nasty life doing horrible things, but he believes so he gets in to the big dance?

Another is a Muslim (not radical) or a Jew, They (you Pick) live an honorable life doing their gods work, according to your book they rot in Hell (for not accepting Jesus) and the nasty beliver gets in, am I right?

If thats the game, I choose not to play. If there is a day of judgement, I'll tell him to his face, for I have lived a pretty noble life, not perfect but my life has benefitted many people, and hurt few. The latter, I have to deal with.

Many of they most mean spirited nasty people I have met claim to be christians, some of the nicest too. So to say you are a christian really doesn't mean anything to me.

Good night, I have another long day tomorrow (2 in a row)
I got to say MY prayers and get some rest

Oh Gazoo bless me

 

[LDB]

For god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life -John 3:16

Answer me a question about this above. Thats it, just believe and you are in? Thats what it says right? Gods Words Right?

There is far more to it than "That's it, just believe and you are in". I can't quote you the verses but one has to accept the entire Bible and all the commandments, not just the ones that are convenient. One can't just claim belief. It requires walking the walk not just talking the talk.

 

[DougTravels]

There is far more to it than "That's it, just believe and you are in". I can't quote you the verses but one has to accept the entire Bible and all the commandments, not just the ones that are convenient. One can't just claim belief. It requires walking the walk not just talking the talk.

Thats not what it says, maybe its a typo

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Your opinion, but it does not change the fact that the world would be better off without any religion.

I agree when you stated religion is a means of control, when one man interferes with another man's spiritual beliefs. But when you say we'd be better off without religion, you really don't know. Historically, religion has dictated moral laws. Ppl, both individually, and in a group, NEED guidance; and many get it from religion. IMO, the abolition of religion would equate to moral anarchy! An anarchy in which "the state" would gleefully rush in and take God's place.

It's not the religion itself that started wars; it was the leaders who used the religion, as an excuse, for power and control. Get rid of those, and I would agree, the world would be better for it.

 

[mjolnir131]

I am going to ask you something very personal so feel free not to respond: Are you a Christian?

Brings up a very good question, Are You?

And this is the question of the hour good job Greg.

I usually will not use a persons beliefs against them.
Lets think about this you chose a s/n based on Buddha and have made references to the flying spaghetti monster, the atheists god of choice in an argument.

So the question Greg is really asking when he asks "are you one" is trying to decipher are you trying to shame somebody with there beliefs or dismiss logic because it trumps anything you have said?

If you are seriously trying to say it's a Christians job to take care of the poor i will agree it's the Churches job to do so not the governments, we do not have kings who give out alms so to get a better seat at the big table in heaven. In case you honestly think it's a Christians job to feed the poor I did spend some time looking around in Leviticus,Exodus and Deuteronomy for a cravat to thou shall not steal, except to feed the poor. but did not find one. For when you take one mans property even under the guise of a Tax and give it directly to another that is stealing,end of line. While we are near the topic Faith based initiatives are equally as wrong Churches should not be getting money from the government thats what they have followers for, so they can pool there money and go do something useful. Not using non-sheep money for that purpose.

Turtles 5 paragraph dissertation sums it up pretty well. I might add that when you do create a situation where so many weak are unnaturally propagated that bad things will happen ,you can't stop it. That said some of the most Honorable people i have had the pleasure to met have been those who have a weaker family member and are taking care of them,usually a child but not always. Those are the wow people who inspire one,they are spiritual no matter what there religion is. they do give you hope for humanity.

So Buddha as to your initial inquiry,though not ashamed of my beliefs,it's best not to delve into the how and why for it's might hurt or upset others beliefs and i will not do that i have found several Christians here that are Honorable and try to do the right thing they are good people.

I am Asatru,and rocket before you jump unto the libertarian bandwagon and how Norse it is. that may be true but i just want my ****ed party back from the unthinking ultra left.

 

[mjolnir131]

What i am seeing in this thread is a "coming-out party" for brazen, godless liberals. Every single one of them is a direct beneficiary of Christianity's role in American life, law and culture. As imperfect as it may be, the overwhelming influence of Christianity has been the single greatest force for good the world has ever known. The secular humanists apparently acknowledge no God but themselves. What folly!

Just for the record most all Christian laws came from rabbinical law or was "borrowed" from pagan Roman, the Celts,Norse or that other Germanic group ,i can;t remember there names not Goths the one sandwiched between the Celts and the Norse.It's unimportant.The point being it's probably best to remember where our laws came from and what is godless or not.

 

[mjolnir131]

Interesting take, are those jobs in the agricultural sector?, if so any idea what's the hourly rate for picking strawberries in California?; I honestly have no idea.





How many?, what percentage of the population in need?

To be honest those farm workers are actually not what we are talking about,they are almost 100% legal documented workers and are not the criminals that come here illegally and work illegally and "steal" jobs. What is it with the Über left having to try and make immigration about the legal law abiding citizens when thats not what it's about.It's about the criminals, chances are good that if your going to ignore immigration laws any other law is equally unimportant to you. The USA does a very adequate job of raising our own lawbreakers we don't need anybody else's.

And to answer your other question if they have been on welfare for ...oh 9 months or more and are not disabled,in which case they should be on disability not well fair. 9 months or longer is probably right at or very near 100%.

And as long as the government is not paying for it I'm all for a 100% employment program.Because if the government did pay for it then you can't fire anybody for fraking off so you end up paying everybody to sit around and do nothing. If somebody wants a job like that should join a union or run for Congress.

 

[aristotle]

I am a brazen moderate democrat. As far as being godless, It would be nice if some people on 911 had been godless or allahless. How many more wars in the name of god do we need to make people see that. All the Christians believe that all people of other faiths will burn in hell. They all believe that christians won' be at the their big party. You believe that the day of reckoning is coming, well that is probably true, but it will come because of a Horrific Holy War. Call me godless if you want, I will take it as a compliment!

You seem to forget though I do answer to a higher power.



THE ALL POWERFULL

THE

GREAT

GAZOO





For god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life -John 3:16

Answer me a question about this above. Thats it, just believe and you are in? Thats what it says right? Gods Words Right?

So 1 believer lives a nasty life doing horrible things, but he believes so he gets in to the big dance?

Another is a Muslim (not radical) or a Jew, They (you Pick) live an honorable life doing their gods work, according to your book they rot in Hell (for not accepting Jesus) and the nasty beliver gets in, am I right?

If thats the game, I choose not to play. If there is a day of judgement, I'll tell him to his face, for I have lived a pretty noble life, not perfect but my life has benefitted many people, and hurt few. The latter, I have to deal with.

Many of they most mean spirited nasty people I have met claim to be christians, some of the nicest too. So to say you are a christian really doesn't mean anything to me.

Good night, I have another long day tomorrow (2 in a row)
I got to say MY prayers and get some rest

Oh Gazoo bless me

View attachment 1157

DougsTravails.... All will turn out well for you. At this very moment a dozen grey-haired grannies are offering up prayers for you. Grannies of the Primitive Baptist variety. Holy-rollers all. And, of course, they're speaking in tongues: it's STRONG medicine. *L*

The flames of Hell will never touch you. Thank me later.

 

[aristotle]

Just for the record most all Christian laws came from rabbinical law or was "borrowed" from pagan Roman, the Celts,Norse or that other Germanic group ,i can;t remember there names not Goths the one sandwiched between the Celts and the Norse.It's unimportant.The point being it's probably best to remember where our laws came from and what is godless or not.

Mr. Ingels... My post was an exercise in satire. Satire is laced with irony, sarcasm and parody. Perhaps I should have included a disclaimer. As a former law school student, I am cognizant of the origin of American law.