Union Update!

[RichM]

Chuckk first all it's obvious that you have been a Union Shop Steward.You have been a member of EO for about 2 months and the majority of your posts have been to organize expediters into some type of Union or Association. Then this Association will make demands to the respective carriers who you think will agree to these demands.

Let me enlighten you as too what a independent contractor is. You sign a agreement with a carrier to perform and be paid for your performance. This carrier cannot force you to do something that you do not wish to. If you are an employee the carrier has control over you and can fire you if you do not do what they ask of you.

Now your organization wants to make changes as too compensation and performance. Why would a carrier agree to these changes? If they have been operating successfully why should they change polices because your organization wants them too.

There are probably less then 5,000 drivers and owners in the entire expediting industry. A good percentage are doing this for travel reasons and too stay busy. They have alternate sources of income. These drivers would not walk a picket line demanding more deadhead pay. There are many fleet owners that have major financial committments, so they need to keep their trucks rolling. Their drivers who for the most part certainly need a weekly income are not going to picket for one day much less weeks or months.

You constantly read on EO about drivers and owners exiting the business due to financial problems. Can these folks who are already in trouble survive a strike.

Back to the carriers,they all have different payscales and pay policies. Large carriers have a great deal of overhead that needs to be paid for.Smaller carriers may get by with less but at the same time will have less opportunties for a driver. Will XYZ Express sign an agreement that FEDXCC agrees to,I doubt it.

Unions had their day,we have all seen photos of young children working in sweatshops. Those days are gone.

Finally you say I have no class, well in none of my posts do you find me using words like turds and GD it. If you want to be proffesional act the role.

 

[kg]

Chuckwagon, i strongly disagree, it IS all about me, and the same is true for many others who risk their own money and devote their energies to expediting.I did not enter expediting with a concern for my "brother expediter", rather a desire to compete against all competition and gain a degree of sucess in this venture.
As RICH M pointed out in a post, there are only a limited number of expediter o/o doing this crazy business, and we all do it for our own reasons.

As Rich also pointed out and this bears repeating OFTEN, many have other sources of income and do not rely strictly on expediting to survive.

Expediters as a group are generally "out there", and we don't need or for the most part, desire, structure or marching orders thank you.


just my opinion

 

[yaaintdeadyet]

There are more to unions than sweatshops or child labor. Although those still exist in 3rd world nations operating under the rule of the US dollar. Much of the freight carried in this country is produced by those nations. Most believe union "boss's" call for a strike. There's nothing farther from the truth. I've been part and parcel to hours, days, weeks of negotiations. Neither party involved wants or uses a walkout as a bargaining chip. The media feeds upon the recipe of woe to the consumer if there's a possibility of a "strike". The members vote to turn down a contract offer. The union representation DOES NOT coerce, cajole or command a walkout. If any voting member chooses to work they're capable of doing so. Often without any repercussion save distrust from their fellow employees. The same notion of the misnomer "right to work" distorts the vialbility of organized employees and independant contractors finding agreement with an employer. Whether that employer is termed contract carrier or not. The language written into a union contract can be as individual as any an expeditor or owner desires. Union membership is best described as the opportunity to subscribe to "bulk" buying power. Whether it's medical insurance, retirement plan options or standardized working conditions. The most quantifiable aspect is representation in a employee/employer or contractor/contractee dispute.
Enough of that. I've got to ask, if "unions" are such an evil in the workforce why are most police departments and fire departments solvent inspite of union representation? Not to mention the screen actors guild. Where many individual's negotiate their own contract language.
Please realize I'm not in any means of the mindset that unions are the cure all. They're far from it. Just know there's more bargaining power within a group than individually. If OOIDA can even come close the revelation will sweep the transportation industry. I truly hope it will. Until that time I'll continue to not only write my congressional reps and state senator, I'll make that weekly phone call and visit their office as often as I can.
By the way, how many of you know your district congressional reps name? Where their office is. Email them. Believe this, every message is read since passage of the patriot act.

 

[chuckwagon]

First, Rich do not even start to tell me that I am not a professional. I ran my own business for 15-years - had sales of over $500,000 - so I must be some what of a professional. If a few swear words makes me unprofessional so be it - but if that is where you base your thought on professionalism you are way off base.

Now to the claim that unions are only for employees and not for independent contractors. That post is so incorrect it does not justify a reply. Even though I would say go to your local library and study the labor relation laws and you will find out different.

As the one previous post mention for an example the SAC.

And Rich - thanks for speaking for all 5,000 expeditors throughout this country that they would not want a union or association. Thank you for speaking up for all of them - that saves us alot of time!

What I am saying is those 5,000 expeditors should have a choice which they do not at this time.

Why would carriers agree to a union contract? Who said they would but that is what contract talks are all about - finding a middle ground.

 

[RichM]

Well I am not going to get into a pissing contest with you.So this will be my last post on this issue.You said you were a Shop Steward but now you said you ran your own business for 15 years with a nice yearly sales amount.So which Chuck are we talking to.

I don't know what your business was but 15 years experience would qualify you as someone who knows that business. Would I come on with 2 months experience and say "Chuck you and your peers need a Organization so instead of selling your widgets at $1.00 we can hold up the marketplace and sell them for $2.00. This is what you are essentially proposing here.

Too get back to the basics, yes an organization with many members can have clout for buying power and arranging discounts etc. But Organizations don't dictate company policys.

Swear words,yes I have heard and used them but at the appropiate moment. EO forums are above that stuff.

 

[raceman]

I am one of those that RichM may have been speaking for but he said exactly what I would have said. I understand your personal interest here and if you can get anybody to join hands with you, well I wish you the best.

I got in this business because I like my freedom and as a person I very much like being in control of all of my decisions and money and feeling the emotions of success and failure. I like everything about it. I like the feeling I get when I make a bad decision, when I am taking advantage of, when I have to do everything myself, and I really like getting every last dime of my hard earned money. I simply do not want anyone in my pocket, making decisions for me, telling me what is good or bad for me, I do not want someone else telling me what they can or cannot do to or for me. I want nothing to do with anyone else in my work day or my business.

Thanks RichM for speaking for me and the other 4999. Now do not do again. As you can read in this post, I want no representation. Ha! Lol. I kill me.

Raceman
Dedicated O/O
OOIDA 741748

 

[Jefferson3000]

Honestly Chuckwagon, I wonder if you are not STILL a steward, if not a union representative. You have really done nothing on this forum but to try and initiate some sort of rally for a union since you appeared. I have to ask, because you obviously know more about unions than you do the freight business. So exactly who are you really? Also, what are your real motives for being here? If you're only here to work up a union, just say so. At least we'll appreciate your honesty.

 

[davekc]

I have to go with Rich and the others on this one. Two months in the industry in addition to only posting about unions doesn't leave you much credibility. These posts come and go and have no application to our industry. Once you have a better understanding to the economics and operations of expediting, you will likely find your efforts are better suited to the work OOIDA is involved in, rather than a union.
OOIDA promoting or even discussing a union, isn't too likely.







Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[chuckwagon]

Rich - please - you saying you are not going to get into a pissing match with me, so this was going to be your last post on this subject? Man, this is a sign of a defeated, overworked, person that is tired of standing up for what he things is right. I may not agree with you but for goodness sake have some balls and stand up for what you believe in! This is not a pissing match this is a discussion about two different thoughts. I do not want you to take this like I am talking down at you- I am not. All I am saying is stand tall for what you feel - don't walk away like you have been defeated. You are better than that!!!!! This is not about who is right and wrong this is about two ways of doing things - your way and my way, which by the way is the best of choices.

Now, Rich, first you are correct, with me having over 15-years of business ownership that does qualify me as someone who knows that business. However, you are wrong when saying I basically have no right to come on here and speak about unions and associations because I have only been a member of EO for 2 months. With that mindset I guess an 18-year old should not have the right to vote because they just turned 18.
This is the USA - I have every right to speak and if I wish attempt to organize a union or association among expeditors. (Hey, Rich and in case you didn't know it 18-years can vote just like a 58-year old.)
No where on here have I (as you claim I have done) proposed to "hold up the marketplace" by bringing in a union or an association. The purpose of bringing in a union or an association is to balance the work enviroment of the expeditor, which could include, increased mileage pay, deadhead pay or improvement of such, freight price minimums, fsc payments, health care coverage, and on and on just to name a few or the concerns of expeditors.
You added that "yes an organization with many members can have clout for buying power and arranging discounts etc. But Organizations don't dictate company policys."
I would agree. But, many expeditors can get discounts by signing up for a simple card at Flying J. We are not talking about some group giving away discounts - I am talking about improving the overall working enviroment, condition and payment structure for the American expeditor. Yes, organizations as you say do not dictate company policy - but a union or association can work with a company by representing the drivers to develop a more favorable company policy for the driver.
Jefferson3000 - you asked "what are your real motives for being here? If you're only here to work up a union, just say so. At least we'll appreciate your honesty." And I will address that - on this post, yes I would like to see a union or an active association lead us into a more balanced and liveable work enviroment. Am I a union representative - NO! Am I a shop steward now - NO! Was I - Yes!
davekc - you claim and said "Two months in the industry in addition to only posting about unions doesn't leave me much credibility." WOW - are you kidding! I really do not care if a person has 15-years of business ownership (which I do) it does not mean that I could not learn from someone with 2-months of business experience. The 15-years does not make me an expert and the 2-months of experience does not make the other person an idiot.
We all have something to add and contribute to this industry and the sooner some of you veterans that are so dead set in your old-fashion ways can see that the better off WE ALL will be. Or you can continue on and just worry about your ownself. AGAIN!
As a secondary note - I joined the OOIDA and still have not heard a peep out of them regarding my membership package- yet the deducted the money out of my checking account! Not a good way to start when if you check my other post - I have done nothing but praise them!

 

[LDB]

Chuck, I believe you have good intentions but this is a bad idea. At least 4 out of 5 members who comment post negative responses and are completely against it. Even the politicians know when it's 80% against it's time to drop it and move on to something else. I applaud your sincerity but don't you think it's time to drop this union stuff that nobody wants and focus on things that have potential?

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[silverdollar]

Chuckwagon, are you part of a team?

 

[highway star]

Chuck, the trucking industry as gone downhill BIG TIME since I got into it 30 years ago. This with the supposedly strong voice of the Teamsters. This with the formation and growth of OOIDA. But you think you can organize a very small niche of the industry and make significant changes. Wake up and smell the coffee.

I do admire your persistence. Even though the vast majority of responses have been negative, you refuse to listen and just keep babbling.

 

[are12]

Chuck,
I must agree with the majority on this one - let it go!
Like many others have posted, we are out here for us and to make a decent living - doing something we both enjoy doing.
Why do I have to give anyone money to represent me on the decisions I make - when I can do it for free!
If the trucking industry wanted a union, they would have had one years ago. And to be very blunt - if the trucker's really wanted to, they could shut down for 3 days and I am sure there would some changes made but like a union - that will never happen either!
So give it a rest!!

 

[SWTexas1]

UNION PLEASE,

In 30+ years both working for other people and owning my own Companies, I have been on both side of the fence,(always the Teamster union) I have seen them for what they are. Great idea whose time has come and gone.

Last I checked, no one was holding a gun to my head, I signed on with the company I picked, I will leave them when someone else in the MARKET PLACE has a better offer that real.

If it comes down to the point that this does no longer meets my goals I will take my toy and go home.

Chuck is right about one thing we need to work together so wave and smile at that truck next to you maybe even buy him 0r her a cup of coffee, It might be just what you both needed

 

[chuckwagon]

For those of you who seem to think I should let the discussion and the possibility of organizing a union or association to represent American expeditors die off let me give you some facts.

My EO stats there are 3,517 members to this forum.
By my count (roughly) 21 people gave their thoughts on a union of an association - that is only .0059 percent of the membership of this forum.

This would clearly indicate not everyone this could effect has voiced their thoughts on this matter. Therefore, until I get a better reading on the MAJORITY of American expeditors - then this discussion will continue.

(Or until the moderators who are against this cut me off - and I look for that to happen even though I would hope they would let any discussion on this matter or others concerning our industry to continue)

Keep in mind - I am only suggesting the open discussion and some how organise a vote on the possibility of a union or association.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

As far as an organization, I agree. We need better representation, and I believe OOIDA fits that bill. It just needs more members and cashflow.

As far as the 3,517 EO members, a lot of them are gone with the expediting wind, or don't post anymore. A few read, but never post. And I'm sure some joined, looked, and left again. You've probably gotten the majority of ppl who want to post on this subject. But I recommend to everyone who wants this subject dropped to not post anymore. It will die, like the unions are.

"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know." - Kansas

 

[kwexpress]

KW Express
o/o till i die

I havent posted yet. teamsters NO.

ooida NO.

Everyone with there own authority YES.

then you treat yourself fair and dont screw yourself.We dont need big brother.If you dont have enough smarts to run yourself you dont need to be here.

 

[raceman]

Hey Wagon why don't you post some contact info and those who need someone to think for them can just contact you directly. The 0.59% of us who use this site are not interested and clearly sick of the topic.
I am dedicated and have been for getting close to two years to Union plants. I had no interest in them before and that time has caused me less interest.
Please find another way to find your members or I will start a Union on here and our first order of business will be to beg Lawrence to ban this crap.

Thanks and best of luck

Raceman
Dedicated O/O
OOIDA 741748

 

[LDB]

Just because someone has their own authority doesn't mean they shouldn't join OOIDA. EVERYONE should join. It's poor attitudes and bad ideas like that that are keeping membership lower than it could be and reducing their effectiveness.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[chuckwagon]

TO THE PERSON WHO SAID I SHOULD STOP THIS POST BEFORE HE FORMS A UNION AND TO DEMAND EO BAN THIS KIND OF POST - I HAVE ONE THING TO SAY!

NO!

I am waiting for them to ban me - since I disagree with them, have insulted or challenged them a few times, I expect them to ban these post - afterall that is how most of you feel we should discuss this - just shut up, ignore it and worry about ourselfs.

Well, I disagree and that is all I will say about it at this time. If you do not want to hear about it - do not read about it - do not post to it - move on to the next thread.

If you think you are doing such a bang up job for yourself, if you think you are getting what you deserve, if you think your one voice has more power than what a union or association could - then fine - go on your way and God Bless You.

But do not say, believe or think - I do not have the right and others do not have the right to choose what we read, see or care to discuss, prepare or possibly organize.

You really can not be as stupid, ignorant and blind as you just came across!