Unfrickinbelivable

[BillChaffey]

I left Panther II in December 2007 at that time the mileage, according to dispatch was from the shipper, along with what ever the FSC was. I found out from my very first run I was almost always driving more miles then I was paid for whether I followed their directions or used my own Atlas. near the end of my short career with Panther II I accepted a load from Illinois's to Georgia the Pro said 695 miles. I drove just over 400 hundred and notified Dispatch I was going to take a nap. It was midnight and I was due 11 AM the coming morning. Dispatch said "you can't stop for long you still have 400 miles and change to go". That can't be I'm past halfway, "no your not" When I delivered my odometer read 815 miles. When I informed my "Team Leader"
he said we pay by what the shipper Say's is the milage. Sometime we are a little off it evens out in the end. Unfortunately I didn't stay long enough for it to ever even out.

 

[cheri1122]

OVM, it doesn't matter what I think, when someone turns down a load, because it's literally not my business - it's theirs (if they habitually turn down loads that are not long enough to suit their preferences, they probably won't be in business for very long, IMO)
What I'm saying is it's wrong to blame folks for turning down unprofitable loads, because we're in business for ourselves, not the carrier. I think it's also wrong to hold a dispatcher responsible for getting a load covered - if the load is unprofitable, they have to persuade someone to take it. But if no one will do it, is that their fault?

 

[greg334]

OVM,
It don't matter what others think, unless you are sitting at that computer making the calls, there may be 100 reasons why someone would turn down a load. blanketing the subject is not really, well .....good.

Sorry but being paid flat rate rather sucks to me.

Thanks moot for that post of the disclaimer. I don't mean to be offensive but I may be but truthfully why drive for a company that gives you maybes?

Maybe the miles are X, maybe the FSC is X - well the last time I looked, the earth hasn't grown or stretched.

I said this before, telling people that they can't stop, micromanaging the boards (no excuse to me) are two reasons I would say not to be contracted with a company, but that's me. If I am told I can't stop for a rest, come get the load, because I am resting or if we agree to something, we agree and that is a contract for services. Once the game is played, the trust is gone and no disclaimer can be used to bridge that trust that the company destroys.

I may just look at this all wrong but they are the ones in control and they are a trucking company. I know that if they don't get a 'load' covered by one of their trucks, it goes to a Disney like load board (yes I am being sarcastic) and someone will pick it up and they still make money.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

greg said "OVM,
It don't matter what others think, unless you are sitting at that computer making the calls, there may be 100 reasons why someone would turn down a load. blanketing the subject is not really, well .....good. "

Agreed!

 

[Turtle]

That "load receipt" disclaimer is mostly a load of crap. The miles listed is the same number of miles that was on the load offer, and they will not change unless the load gets swapped out. If the load offer said 582 miles then the load receipt will say 582 miles, and that's how many miles you get paid (unless someone makes an error, one that's easily corrected).

The FSC is an estimate based on the customer contract. More often than not the actual paid FSC is a fraction of a penny more than what is listed. It may say a 25 cent FSC, and at settlement time is ends up being 25.21 cents, or something like that. Sometimes it's a few cents less, but that's very rare, and sometimes it's a few cents more, and that's equally as rare.


As for the cherry pickers, the most often scenario for that is the drivers who will sit back and wait for a run of at least 500 miles. A lot of that it Panther's own fault. They cater to, and heavily recruit, fleet owners. If you drive a van for a fleet owner and you're making 40%, then 40% of $.77 is 30.8 cents per mile (if you're making 60%, then about 20% goes for fuel, so it works out about the same). A 250 mile run gets offered, and you're looking at making $77.00 for that run. You take that and deliver, only to find yourself 7th on a board that does 2 loads a day. It might be two days before you get another load. The next load offered might only be 300 miles, or less. Two, three, even four of those in a week and you'll nearly starve. As the owner of the van I can afford to take that 250 miles load in most cases, but if I were driving for an owner I couldn't. I'd sit back and wait for 500 miles or more. And that's precisely what's happening. And then, Panther has the nerve to complain about cherry pickers.


Cheri:
"The Wesayso Development Corporation"

"I'm the baby, gotta love me!"
"Not the momma!"
Baby Sinclair

 

[cheri1122]

Turtle, I once had the same experience as Bearcat, where the actual miles far exceeded the paid miles, and when I brought it to dispatch's attention, the response was "We billed the customer for the miles on the load offer, so that's all you get paid for" My feeling is that I should have been paid for the actual miles, (by whatever program they use), not the customer's mistaken estimate
I still maintain that independent operators have every right to accept or refuse loads, based upon their own criteria. Most will accept loads that make money for them, and turn down those that don't. If the carrier wants drivers who will take the 'luzer loads' (as you so colorfully term it) they need to hire employees, who can afford to be a 'driver first, businessman second' The rest of us need to be the other way 'round.

 

[Turtle]

That's one thing about the GPS (I have a Garmin), when I plug in the addresses, if the mileage is considerably off and I can't reconcile it by using "quickest" or "fastest" route
via truck or car, and can't reconcile it with Street and Trips, if there's just no way to drive it for that number of miles, I'll call dispatch and find out what the deal is. They run the miles on a couple of different versions of PC Miler so if it's different than what they're paying, they already know it. Of course, they won't volunteer that information with the load offer. But, if it's off by any significant amount, like more than 10%, then they can either give me a bonus to cover the difference, pay me a flat rate, or find someone else to haul the thing. They're free to discount the customer all they want, but they're not free to take the discount out of my pocket. Three times I have refused to go pick up loads that were off significantly, twice I got a bonus that covered it, and one time they gave it to someone else. The one they gave to someone else was 410 paid, 530 delivered. They can have it.

I agree, absolutely, that independent contractors have the right to accept or refuse loads for their own reasons.

 

[DreamTeam44]

Turtle, I once had the same experience as Bearcat, where the actual miles far exceeded the paid miles, and when I brought it to dispatch's attention, the response was "We billed the customer for the miles on the load offer, so that's all you get paid for" My feeling is that I should have been paid for the actual miles,.

There are no 'ACTUAL MILES' paid out in the trucking industry, as the crow flys miles like trip maker are generally used, it's usually around 10% more miles than what a trip pays, though once in a while we have had a a 930 mile trip be actually 30-40 miles more due diligence in map reading and trip planning...
OMG!

 

[greg334]

I think that Bonus word is funny, there is no bonus - you're a contractor.

 

[cheri1122]

The part of the quote you cut off there, said "By whatever program they use" - I know they don't pay actual miles, thank you.
Turtle, when it happened, I didn't have a Garmin to check the mileage, just S & T on the laptop, and there wasn't time to check before rushing off to the pickup. Now that I do have the Garmin, I drive for a carrier that will tell me up front of any discrepancies in mileage or pay, and allow me to accept or decline accordingly. I appreciate the honesty, and repay it with the same courtesy.

 

[Falligator]

Yep, I got that Col....no comment.

 

[Turtle]

There are no 'ACTUAL MILES' paid out in the trucking industry, as the crow flys miles like trip maker are generally used,...OMG!

Depends on the segment of the trucking industry. Rand McNally TripMaker doesn't do an "as the crow flies" routing, but it does often do more of a "Household Good Miles" which is what a lot of moving vans use. Most in the trucking industry are moving away (have already) from TripMaker and/or Household Good Miles, and PC Miler is now the industry standard. PC Miler uses Practical Routing instead of Household Good Miles.

There are a few customers with contracts that specify Household Good Miles as the mileage they will pay, but fortunately there aren't many of those.

Incidentally, as the crow flies routing and actual routing can often be off as much as 50% or more. From where I'm sitting right now it's 125 miles to my delivery, as the crow flies, but the actual routing is 223 miles. That's 44%

As for ACTUAL MILES, yes, some carriers do, in fact, pay actual miles driven.

 

[LDB]

Anyone with a laptop should have Microsoft Streets and Trips. As soon as one gets stopped and settled to wait on the next load they should input their current location as the starting point. That way when a load offer comes over it's just a matter of putting in shipper and cons addresses and in less than a minute you have actual miles d/h and loaded. We have 15 minutes to respond so there's more than enough time. If they call pushing you just tell them you're mapping it and hold on for 30 seconds. You'll have your answer and know if you need to discuss mileage with them.

It's pretty much guaranteed you'll be shorted miles and that's no matter what company you drive for. Usually it's a few % but once in a while it's a large amount. Everyone has to make their own decision about where the acceptable/unacceptable line is. Ideally every mile via the safe/sane/sensible route would be paid on every run. I've got a nice bridge available for anyone who believes there's a company doing that.

 

[cheri1122]

Leo, that's excellent advice - but I never took the laptop out, unless I was using it, (still don't - it's too fragile, expensive, and irreplaceable to risk, IMO)
and I hope others can benefit from it, but I will never be in that position again. If only because I have a Garmin now

 

[are12]

I find it humorous on how some people will come on here and tell you, "this is a business and not a job" but if you try and run your business to make a profit, you are a "cherry picker". So what are we supposed to do? Take all runs that are offered, just to help Panther get all their loads covered, even if we have to take a lose? Or do we choose the loads that are going to put some money in our pocket?

When we 1st got into this business, we tried taking every load that was offered and we almost didn't make it in this business - until we started putting our needs 1st.

Yes, we are contracted with Panther, not an employee, so we should be able to run our business the way we seem fit and not be punished for not taking every load that is offered. Someone else mentioned how Panther is a "non-forced dispatch" but in a way they are. If you do not take every load, then your acceptance rate drops. If your acceptance rate gets too low, than they will by pass you for the truck with the higher acceptance rate. So, in a way, they are forcing you to take every load - unless you don't really worry about your acceptance rate. To us, Panther should be more concerned with On Time and Safety and do away with the Acceptance Rate. Then they would be considered "non-forced dispatch".

 

[fastrod]

You can run your business as you see fit. Just remember Panther is your customer and you provide them with a service. If they are not happy with that service they can and will take there business somewhere else (another contractor). As far as acceptance rates anything less than 70% you may be passed over on the assumption you will refuse the load. The unprofitable runs they want you to take is a judgement call on your part but the fact that the run is unprofitable in the first place is the result of incompetent management. This may sound harsh but good management would not try to gain market share at the expense of there contractors.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Define a crappy run.....

A shipper needs a skid taken over to warehouse cross town say 30 miles....assume it may take 3 hours of time to do....$50 for the mini plus say $10.00 fsc on mileage= 60.00 divided by 3 = 20.00 per hour...and this is crappy? for Turtle and I it is do able, for a fleet driver not so good as Turtle said...Maybe dispatch should be looking at the status of driver before offering???

 

[Moot]

That "load receipt" disclaimer is mostly a load of crap. The miles listed is the same number of miles that was on the load offer, and they will not change unless the load gets swapped out. If the load offer said 582 miles then the load receipt will say 582 miles, and that's how many miles you get paid (unless someone makes an error, one that's easily corrected).

While the disclaimer does match the load offer it doesn't always match the settlement sheet. Especially with Caterpillar loads. Yeah, I know Cat loads come up very short of actual miles driven. But I'm talking about a discrepancy between the load offer and the final paid miles.

OVM said: "I know if I were a dispatcher I'd go to, the go to guy to cover the load. No matter pass over 6 people to do it! I'd not waste my time. It's no wonder they need 20 dispatchers.....just to deal with "cherry pickers"

Would not these actions make you, the dispatcher, a "cherry picker" also. The very thing you claim is the problem.

 

[LDB]

You've got to look at the expense side as well and factor in what type vehicle is being used. You also didn't factor in deadhead on both ends, unless you happen to be sitting at the shipper and will then sit at the cons. By the time all is said and done you are probably at 60 miles for that $60. In a D unit the fsc will be perhaps $20 and short minis are $60 so we'll figure $80 to a D unit. With average operating cost of 67cpm for the D unit that's $40.20 leaving $39.80 or roughly $13 an hour not $20 an hour. That's still better than burger flipping but not what someone can call a day's wage. Now if all minis paid $99 to a van and $150 to a straight truck, plus fsc, like they should then a lot more would be accepted since this same run would make about $130 for the straight truck operator. Guesstimating a Sprinter at 40cpm operating expense that's $24 from $109 leaving $85 for the operator.

 

[pjjjjj]

Forgive me if I'm missing something here, as I've said, we're new. How can someone consider that $20/hr isn't too shabby, when none of the expenses have been factored in? I know that for us, we have a truck payment, insurance payment, cellphone expenses, qc expenses, and of course, fuel expenses.. I'm sure I'm forgetting some.. but once those are all factored in to 1/3 of a day's revenues, or half a day's.. whatever the case may be.. for those 3 hours.. plus like LBD mentioned, the travel expenses to get TO the pickup and from the last pickup to home.. how much are we really talking? It can't be compared with a burger flipper who earns $8.00/hr (our minimum wage, soon to become $8.75/hr), but has zero expenses.