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UAW Desparate...

layoutshooter

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Ragman said:
No.

I drove for a company with a WESAYSO attitude. I was told to drive a truck with bad brakes because WESAYSO. :mad:

I quit instead. I would not put my life in danger.
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That is a safety issue and there should always be a means of taking care of that.

What about production decisions? How many widgets to put out?
 
greg334

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Well that crap still happens with a union. The problem is that the union has been slow to force many companies to improve safety, sometimes it takes people getting killed before they step up any efforts for many reasons. In the case of the UAW, they owned part of GM and have a financial stake in Chrysler for a couple decades so they don't want to impact the profits (hence revenue to the union) and won't take on important safety issues.

I don't think that the company will slide back, they have their own ways of cheating safety regulations but it is a lack of a union which will help everyone in the long run.
 
Ragman

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
layoutshooter said:
What do you mean by "WESAYSO" decision making? Is a company not entitled to run itself as it sees fit? :confused:
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greg334 said:
Well that crap still happens with a union. The problem is that the union has been slow to force many companies to improve safety, sometimes it takes people getting killed before they step up any efforts for many reasons. In the case of the UAW, they owned part of GM and have a financial stake in Chrysler for a couple decades so they don't want to impact the profits (hence revenue to the union) and won't take on important safety issues.

I don't think that the company will slide back, they have their own ways of cheating safety regulations but it is a lack of a union which will help everyone in the long run.
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Greg,
That's all fine and dandy, but LOS asked if the company can run itself as they see fit. I still say No. IMHO
 
layoutshooter

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Ragman said:
Again, no.

If they demand x and only y can be done safely, then no.
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Assuming a safe work place. Do you think that a union should dictate production?

Don't hand me that line that unions are "good" for safety. I have watched union members working without safety glasses, no ear plugs, removing safety guards, protecting drunks, dopers, etc etc etc. If I tried to report a drunk worker I was told that "we don't turn in a union brother".

When I worked at Ford I watched union workers damage cars on purpose. One guy used to put pop bottles in the door before he put the trim on it. The guy who was sent to train me ws drunk and went off and went to sleep.

Unions, from what I have seen with the UAW. Teamsters, USW and AFCME, all unions I have had to join, are no better on safety than the companies I worked for.

I REALLY loved getting paid EXACTLY the same as the bum who did little or nothing when I did my job. No promotions on merit, just time in service. Not a good system.
 
OntarioVanMan

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Joe..we are NOT saying unions are a good thing in most ways...but they do scare the bejeevies out of not so good employers....
 
layoutshooter

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
OntarioVanMan said:
Joe..we are NOT saying unions are a good thing in most ways...but they do scare the bejeevies out of not so good employers....
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I know. All I was asking is should companies be allowed to run their business as they see fit, assuming a safe work place.
 
greg334

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Well I was responding to Cheri

With that said, unless you are in your 80's, you would not know what life was like without safety regulations as we have had for the past 40 years
 
OntarioVanMan

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
greg334 said:
Well I was responding to Cheri

With that said, unless you are in your 80's, you would not know what life was like without safety regulations as we have had for the past 40 years
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Greg...back in the late 60's....I unloaded RR tanker cars of powdered glue for wallpaper...no mask of any type...100lb bags of sugar in a boxcar in 90 degree weather..installed fire escapes..no safety equipment...worked in a foundry..again no safety equipment of any type...do it or hit the road...
Oh yeah...the good one....cleaning the top 6" off in septic tanks before they had pumper trucks....No mask at all...just hip waders and fill buckets..
 
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greg334

greg334

Veteran Expediter
OntarioVanMan said:
smartbutt.;)...I do believe you guys had the same crappy jobs back then...and no protections either...just do it or wlak away...back then it was thought them type of jobs built character...:rolleyes:
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Got to tell you that a lot of this bad stuff didn't exist when I entered the work force, even small mom and pops had to deal with a long list of safety things. I had a relative who owned a machine shop he started in the 60's, even then he had to ensure the safety regs were met.

If you want to compare the 1930's to the 80's, a lot has changed and some of it is because of the unions but most of it is because of the laws. No matter, not too many people remember living in those times, working in what we considered impossible conditions and getting paid in cash.

You should take a tour of one when you deliver near one. Pretty good example of working hard.
 
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J

Jumbuck

Seasoned Expediter
People! I will be the FIRST to badmouth the people who work in the "SHOP" I have been treated like a dog while trying to make deliveries to the big 3 and I was as UNION as they were! I was an outside driver for 34 years and I could tell you horror stories that would make your hair curl. It is a miracle that the shops have lasted as long as they have! They would actually RUN when they saw the truckers coming with a load for THEM because they knew they were going to have to (GASP!) WORK! The pathetic part is THEY are the FIRST to bad-mouth some poor smuck working in McDonald's because he forgot to put extra pickle on his burger!It was always, F@#$ IT! It ain't my job! Or let second (or first) shift do it! The VERY reason Buick City closed down here in Flint, MI was because of their "skilled-trades" (and I use the term loosly) people. BuickCity wanted to build a HUGE Flex-Body shop that would keep thousands working, BUT, because of skilled trades reputation for taking 3 days to do a fifteen minute job, Buick wanted to build the factory with outside contractors. The skilled trades people would STILL have a job running and repairing the factory, but they said "HELL NO!" If this factory is built, WE WILL BUILD IT!" Buick City said they wanted it built "THIS century" so they killed the idea and shut the **** factory down.Now, the whole **** site is a vacant lot! The tragic part of the whole deal other the loss of thousands of jobs is that the VERY people who caused this unprecetented job loss were able to move to other plants and displace untold lower senority people. They didn't have to pay the bill for their hard nosed attitude! Now that's REAL "Job Security!" Ain't It?!
BUT! There's always a but, I strongly agree with cherri (hope I got the name right) that given enough time, the wages and conditions (without the UNION) would degrade until they got it back like it was in the 1930's BEFORE the Union! If you DON't beleive that, you are very nieve! Those shop workers enjoyed wages and benefits that I'll bet not an EXPEDIETER ONE would not kill for! It's not an issue whether or not they DESERVED it, but just that the Union leaders were able to win it for them. If those factories were allowed for whatever reason to fold or shut down there is NO doubt in my mind that we would ALL starve and this country would see the great depression all over again! NO DOUBT! Because as much as we may not like it, Union people have the money to buy the products and services that keep most all of us working! I don't say I have all the answers, I'm saying I don't have ANY answers, but shutting the auto plants down, IS NOT the ANSWER! Just my opinion...Jumbuck:eek:
 
greg334

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I would agree with the problem in flint but there are issues, one is when there is intervention by the government to "save" jobs and giving the union perfered treatment and the other is this idea that we will return to the 30's which we won't for a number of reasons.
 
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