Turnover Rates

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Now I don't know what the average rate is for a D refer unit with all the companies, but even with a refer unit people seem to be making money here a LEAM.

As zory suggests, evaluating reefer profitability is not just about the reefer itself but about the whole truck. There was a discussion a few years ago about determining the value of the reefer itself and most seemed to agree that the whole package is best to consider. So too with a lift gate, pallet jack or other special equipment. There are too many variables to tie a particular component load into particular component rates and costs.

For example, the reefer load we are on right now is actually two loads but they are connected. The first leg required the reefer. The return leg does not. But both legs were dispatched together. There are two run numbers and two BOL's, but one run would not have been dispatched without the other, so as a practical matter it is one run that would not have been given to us if we had no reefer. How do you figure that into reefer costs and pay? I know of no good way.

I remember when we were at FedEx Custom Critical, we sometimes got dry loads dispatched to us that we might not otherwise have received because dispatch wanted our truck someplace else in the country to be ready to cover reefer freight there. Those were dry loads but reefer related. How do you figure that into a reefer? Again, I know of no good way.

As many stated in the discussion a while back, best to look at a reefer truck as a package, not as its components.
 
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Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Please don't start. Investing emotional energy in Phil or anyone else is a loser's game. Focus on business. Make rational decisons. There are no lines on a profit and loss statement for how you feel about this or that or what you think think about one person or another.

I'm not trying to start anything. I just want to know his intentions. I'm so over the drama all that crap caused.
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
No drama.
I run team with my wife.
We've joked about B Team before we knew who A Team was.
I have never met Phil.
Do I want to be like Phil ?
I want to be a successful operator. I want to give my carrier and their customers a good value for their money spent.
We have common aspirations.
I'm a wiseass and so is he.
I grew up with brothers. I pull Phil's chain . That's my nature.
If the Caffee's were the C Team , B Team would be available.
Drama ? Lighten up. The forum is for entertainment and education.
This thread has both entertained me and educated me. Mission accomplished.
Do I need someone's permission to be the B Team ?
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
To clarify. My last name begins with B.
If my last name was Hernandez B-Team would be weird.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Regardless of the carrier, for those doing reefer work now, would you recommend a new reefer purchase in todays market? Just out of curiosity. I know how I look at it from a fleet owner perspective, but would one advise say a 200K to 250K investment? As Phil mentioned, there is the investment side, and then the personal preference side.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
No drama.
I run team with my wife.
We've joked about B Team before we knew who A Team was.
I have never met Phil.
Do I want to be like Phil ?
I want to be a successful operator. I want to give my carrier and their customers a good value for their money spent.
We have common aspirations.
I'm a wiseass and so is he.
I grew up with brothers. I pull Phil's chain . That's my nature.
If the Caffee's were the C Team , B Team would be available.
Drama ? Lighten up. The forum is for entertainment and education.
This thread has both entertained me and educated me. Mission accomplished.
Do I need someone's permission to be the B Team ?

I was talking about another time, with another circumstance. It caused a ton of drama, and was egged on endlessly by all parties involved.
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
Dave, you may be an exception to this rule.
My thinking is reefers today are too expensive for your typical fleet owner. The ROI probably isn't there for most fleets. With a sharper than average owner with seasoned, dedicated drivers it will work.
I'm talking of maybe 10% of the fleets out there.
The future , if there is one, will be the owner-driven, maybe two truck operations.
Too costly to do it any other way, IMHO.
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
Hawk,the important thing: did it make you chuckle ?
Remember,although I'm an old fart,I'm a Newbie here.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Hawk,the important thing: did it make you chuckle ?
Remember,although I'm an old fart,I'm a Newbie here.

I didn't see any harm in it. That's why I said Z Team is already taken. I'm guessing Phil thought my comments were going towards the situation I mentioned, and I had no intention of going there. Besides... ribbing Phil is a pastime here. :D
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
Unfortunately, it's time to leave the pool and get to work for us.
I do pay attention to business which is why I go missing from time to time.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Regardless of the carrier, for those doing reefer work now, would you recommend a new reefer purchase in todays market? Just out of curiosity. I know how I look at it from a fleet owner perspective, but would one advise say a 200K to 250K investment? As Phil mentioned, there is the investment side, and then the personal preference side.

Upgrading or replacing an existing reefer is different than spec'ing out a brand new $250,000 reefer truck (it would cost close to $300,000 today to replace our present truck).

Depending on the reefer business outlook at our present carrier, we might upgrade or replace. But we will not go on the hook for $250,000 in the forseeable future, or even for $200,000 for a dry truck.

We see a few new expediter trucks showing up on the road these days. Most have been on Class 7 chassis and have had small sleepers if the sleepers were custom made. New class 8 trucks are seen every once in a while but their custom sleepers are smaller and less equipped than those that were popular before the Great Recession.

ARI is busy as can be these days building huge, full-featured, custom sleepers but they are not going on expediter trucks. They are going to their traditional customers (moving van, high-end automotive transport, certain kinds of flatbed haulers).

Today's new expediter trucks reflect the trend toward lower rates, higher costs and thinner margins. The money that used to be in expediting that enabled drivers to buy more full-featured trucks is not there like it used to be. So, no, Diane and I would not spend $250,000 to build a truck today, even if we paid cash.

It may well be that the first truck we spec'ed and built in will be our last truck. The good news for us is that our truck has several good years left in it. We spec'ed it to be a ten-year truck and it is so-far-so good in year six.
 
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zorry

Veteran Expediter
Everyone gets ribbed from time to time. Phil just sets himself up so nicely sometimes.
I offered to buy him coffee if our paths cross.
He ignored the offer.
Maybe he takes this all a little too serious at times.
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
A relative,also a TValer,last name began with B. She married an S. She is privately refered to as the BS Team. She doesn't like the limelight.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Some interesting replies. Some I suspected but since I am not in it, it is harder to access the other side. You do see less of them and from what I see are older units. It will be interesting see what direction it takes over the next couple of years. I have to admit for single truck, that 300k is a scary number to be on the hook for especially in todays economy.
 

Brisco

Expert Expediter
It's not Phil who is getting the Landstar reefer division up and running but someone is.........

Please don't start. Investing emotional energy in Phil or anyone else is a loser's game.......

Anybody else notice Phil has referred to himself as a third person in this conversation a couple of times now??

Either he's finally losing it.....or you guys have been having a conversation with Diane and didn't realize it. :)
 

purgoose10

Veteran Expediter
I was there in 2003 also ... and the number sticks with me it was still about 250-300 BCO's ... I'm not disputing your word, becuase I don't remember exactly.

Safer.org list the units at 205 today.

I never really new for sure what it was but every time Madam Landstar in Rockford talked that was her figure (no pun intended). Can't remember her name, she was in charge of orientation. They must have paid her extra, all she lived for was LSA.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Anybody else notice Phil has referred to himself as a third person in this conversation a couple of times now??

Either he's finally losing it.....or you guys have been having a conversation with Diane and didn't realize it. :)

Roses are red,
violets are blue,
I'm schizophrenic,
and so am I. :D
 

Bruno

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
US Marines
What is it pick on Phil week? Dang the guy is offering some good advice and people want to start on Phil. That is how a great post can go south real fast. As the late Rodney King said, " Cant we all just get along "?
 

ChanceMaster

Expert Expediter
What is it pick on Phil week? Dang the guy is offering some good advice and people want to start on Phil. That is how a great post can go south real fast. As the late Rodney King said, " Cant we all just get along "?

Don't forget that Rodney King was a law breaking, addict . :)

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