Turnover Rates

zorry

Veteran Expediter
You see a fair amount of LEA trucks for sale but you seldom see what looks like new trucks.
A neighbor had two trucks at LEA and is going down to one.
Another straight truck tells me there's not enough freight to stay busy.
Then someone says, " Hey, remember when Phil always used to brag about his numbers ? He's been kinda of quiet lately."
So to Phil, how is it going ? Enquiring minds want to know .
 

BigCat

Expert Expediter
You see a fair amount of LEA trucks for sale but you seldom see what looks like new trucks.
A neighbor had two trucks at LEA and is going down to one.
Another straight truck tells me there's not enough freight to stay busy.
Then someone says, " Hey, remember when Phil always used to brag about his numbers ? He's been kinda of quiet lately."
So to Phil, how is it going ? Enquiring minds want to know .

2x im with zorry
 

Monty

Expert Expediter
I was there in 2003 also ... and the number sticks with me it was still about 250-300 BCO's ... I'm not disputing your word, becuase I don't remember exactly.

Safer.org list the units at 205 today.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
You see a fair amount of LEA trucks for sale but you seldom see what looks like new trucks.
A neighbor had two trucks at LEA and is going down to one.
Another straight truck tells me there's not enough freight to stay busy.
Then someone says, " Hey, remember when Phil always used to brag about his numbers ? He's been kinda of quiet lately."
So to Phil, how is it going ? Enquiring minds want to know .

True enquiring minds would already know by reading my daily blog.

There was little to say about freight volume and rates with our truck this winter since we were home in Minnesota for Christmas and then at our Florida vacation house through the first week of March.

The spring months were sporadic. Nothing great but we did not starve either. It seems to be picking up in the summer. The load we are on right now is over 6,500 miles, including deadhead. It pays over $2.00 a mile, all miles, to the truck. The last few runs we did were also long and lucrative, though not 6,000 miles long. Much of it has been Canada work.

Last week in Erie, Pa., on a Friday we were pre-dispatched but because of the way the agent put us on the load, we still showed up as available in the system. Five different agents called us that day with five offers; all good.

The other day we were out of service but an agent called anyway to see if we would be interested in the $13,000+ load (reefer load) mentioned above. Of course we were and we went back into service so he could put us on the load. In the short few minutes between the time we went into service and he put us on the load, we showed up as available on the system and two other agents called with load offers.

At this rate, it will not take long to back fill the revenue holes that we experienced in the spring.

Our slow spring months were not common to the LEAM BCO's that Diane and I regularly talk to. When we were slow, most of them were very busy and had no complaints. But it is the same here as it was at FedEx Custom Critical. We like to be paid full value for the work we do and our opinion of our value is high. We often turn down loads that others accept or we price ourselves out of the market when asked to submit a bid (which is why we can afford to take extended winter vacations).

BTW, I don't recall always bragging about our numbers. I do recall posting our specific results for the first thirty days after we completed the training required to get fully credentialled at Landstar Express America. After that, I don't think I have said anything on this fourm about our numbers. Or if I have, it has been very little.
 
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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
I was there in 2003 also ... and the number sticks with me it was still about 250-300 BCO's ... I'm not disputing your word, becuase I don't remember exactly.

Safer.org list the units at 205 today.

I don't know how often that SAFER number is updated. The current number is a little over 250.

I was not with Landstar years ago but have heard from old hands that a lot of trucks left when Qualcomm was put in and the recession took out a number of others. I met recently one of the drivers who fled Qualcomm and is now with another carrier. He claimed he could not make money if he could not be creative with his log book. And as you know, Landstar checks Qualcomm and fuel purchase data against driver log books.
 
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Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
You said it yourself. Thirty percent is not bad when compared to 90 percent.
And a poke in the eye is better when compared to a poke in both eyes.

Guessing now, I would think that if the turnover rate among a carrier's company drivers (employees) is 90 percent, the turnover rate among owner-operators would be that much or greater. Owner-operators do not receive employee benefits like company drivers do and they value and often exercise their freedom. Can you imagine a real-world scenario in which owner-operator turnover at a carrier would be less than company driver turnover? If things are bad enough at a company (or that much better elsewhere) that company drivers are turning over at a 90 percent rate, I can't imagine owner-operators hanging around for long.

I'm guessing now also, but my guess would be O/Os are less transient than company drivers. It costs an O/O money to pick up and move to another carrier.

You ask a good and interesting question, Moot, but without data, it will remain unanswered.
Why thank you, but it was intended to be a rhetorical question.

Even without an answer, the fact remains that among truckload drivers of all types, a 30 percent turnover rate is better than 90 percent; and 10% (approximate) is excellent in and of itself.
I agree and a 90% turnover rate is better than 110%. Turnover rates in excess of 100% are not all that uncommon in the truckload segment. As you mentioned, LEAM's 10% turnover rate is excellent in and of itself until it is compared to the 3 largest expedite carriers that post a 1% turnover rate. Now that 10% doesn't look so good.
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
Good thing you had that reefer Phil.
Glad to hear you are making close to Fedex money occaisionally.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Good thing you had that reefer Phil.
Glad to hear you are making close to Fedex money occaisionally.

It seems important to you that Diane and I do worse at Landstar than we did when at FedEx Custom Critical. Is that correct?
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
I took Christmas off at relatives,getting paid bounce money as part of a <75 negotiation.
I also took a six week winter vacation but not due to a lack of Freight.
I Do Not hope you do worse at LEA than you did at Fedex. As you know from the thread you started to rip me for encouraging a newbie,I try to be positive and upbeat. I wish well for everyone. It's a christian value.
I Do expect you to worse than you did at Fedex. Friday the
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
Continued...Friday the 8th I was told only 23 of the 43 teams in service at LEA had loads.
As we spoke about in the PM after you attacked me it's obvious that you are operating at lower money than you did at Fedex. Yet you come on here and rip Fedex and criticize our rates.
I don't talk about my rates in public: never will. You've been very public about your rates when it suits your agenda.
It's OK to run cheaper over there. If their systems and practices suit you better than here, it's a good move for you.
Just don't keep pretending you've found the holy grail.
At the end of the day we're both just truck drivers.
If you're happy their, then you've succeded. Regardless of cpm.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
zorry, a few things.

First, I do not know what you are talking about regarding me attacking you. It is not something I recall. If it happened, there will be posts on record so you may be right, but just know today that I have no idea what you are talking about. Nor do I know if what you see as an attack was meant by me to be one or not. It matters not to me. If it matters to you, kindly provide a link to the post in question and we can discuss it.

Second, the Landstar system is not as straightforward as you imply. While what you were told may be 100 percent true -- that 23 of 43 teams in service at LEA had loads -- it is not likely accurate. Kindly notice the difference between truth and accuracy. The true statement does not accurately describe what is really going on.

For example, Diane and I were once out of service. An agent called us anyway to offer us a load. We accepted and went back in service so he could put us on the load. However, once he did, our truck still showed up as in service and available (empty) in the system and remained that way for days until we picked up the load. We were on the load but a Landstar BCO looking at the web site would see our truck as available. That's because of how the agent processed the load on his end.

The system also allows us to do lane matches that show what kinds of loads were dispatched out of what areas in the past and by which agents. However, not all loads are included. Much of the freight that Diane and I haul does not show up there. You learn about that freight through experience within the system.

There may be times when we are out of service and agents call and we stay out of service but are put on the load anyway. It's easier for us and them sometimes. They call, we say yes, and by verbal agreement the load is ours and we are committed to it. Then when the time comes we go in service and the load shows up on our truck.

Yet another scenario, a common one, throws off the kind of numbers you cite above. An agent may have a load that goes two weeks from now. Knowing a driver's preferences, that agent may offer the load, the driver may accept, and the truck is then made to show up in the system as dispatched on that load. But the pick up date is not shown. Looking at the count you cited above, such a truck would show up as loaded every day for 14 days, even though it only did one load in two weeks.

Why would that happen? I have seen BCO's do this when they happen to be someplace they want to stay for a while and also want to be on a load they know will go out in the future, and also want to show up as dispatched so other agents won't bother them with load offers they cannot or do not want to accept.

Yet another thing that throws off the kind of numbers you cite above is that agents will often send load offer info to trucks and keep it that way even after the truck says yes. They do that intentionally so the truck will show up as available and remains free to take other loads before the agreed to load is done.

Yet another thing that throws off the numbers are cases where trucks may be out of service, at home, and a close relationship with an agent exists. The agent may have a load ready to dispatch and will not even look at the board to find a truck. He or she will go to the friendly out-of-service truck to cover the load. In such cases, it matters not how many trucks show up as in service or out of service. That out-of-service truck has a strong lock on that load because the agent always calls that truck first. With many loads, how many trucks are in service or out of service is meaningless.

In other words, there is more to the Landstar system and available data that meets the eye. Drawing conclusions about Landstar trucks based on a set of numbers that are fed to you by someone else leaves you at risk of drawing errant conclusions. Relying on those conclusions leaves you at risk of forming errant beliefs about Landstar Express America.

I claim no special knowledge here. It has been nearly a year since Diane and I signed on with Landstar. We are still developing agent relationships and discovering new ways to better use the system.
 
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zorry

Veteran Expediter
I do like the dispatched on a future load and showing available. That could help us here if it could be implemented.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
I want to add one more thing to the comments about the Landstar system I made above. You should understand that Landstar agents are INDEPENDENT agents. They are not obligated to put their freight on Landstar trucks. You could be sitting at the doorstep of a shipper but if it suits the agent, he or she may put that customer's freight on another carrier's truck.

As Notanewbie said, no one at Landstar will hold your hand. Business is done in a different way here than at carriers that have centralized dispatch. Yet for all the differences, Landstar's turnover rate is remarkably low compared to other carriers. A big part of that, I think, is because people don't just wander into Landstar. They know it is a different kind of system before they enter. Would-be BCO's have a pretty good idea of what they and Landstar are about before making the move. Once there, they settle in to develop and run the business model that suits them.
 

Monty

Expert Expediter
I have tried to impart the fact that LEAM is very close to having your own authority, (without all the hassles). As a BCO at Landstar, you have hundreds of agents, (companies), you can contract to haul freight with.

Each of those agents are independent businessmen. So while others may do multi carrier business, I do multi companies!

Landstar, (corporate), only provides the umbrealla the BCO's and agents work under.

If you took that same model and applied it to, (for example), FEDEX, you would have competing dispatchers attempting to load your equipment.
 

Monty

Expert Expediter
Right Dan, except the $$$'s come from one source, and also is credited each Wed for paperwork received by Monday morning.
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
I imagine LEA is more lucrative than a multicarrier deal.
Of course I imagine alot......
 

Monty

Expert Expediter
Zorry, the main reason I carry the torch for Landstar, (no pom poms), is I want the freedom to decide my own fate. No depending on a forced dispatch, dispatcher, qualcomm qualified, cowboy.

And I have said time and again, if I were not here, I'd be knocking on Load1's door.

And what works well for me, truly might not work for others, and reverse. I don't think any of the major companies are "bad", I just think the business model must satisfy you, including your own authority, and those multi carrier deals.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
I really like the Landstar System. I hope to retire where I'm at, but once Phil gets that reefer division up and running over there......
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
I really like the Landstar System. I hope to retire where I'm at, but once Phil gets that reefer division up and running over there......

It's not Phil who is getting the Landstar reefer division up and running but someone is.

Landstar recently hired a man with extensive background in the expedite industry to do just that. His full-time job is to develop reefer business such that Landstar will compete head-on in the lucrative temperature-controlled market. It will not happen overnight but it will happen. Landstar is serious about this. They would not have brought a man in and put him full-time on this project if they were not.

He is not working for Landstar Express America exclusively but for the larger company. He expects to have some LEAM reefer trucks involved as well as trucks from the other divisions.

No confidential secrets are being revealed here. When the man contacted me for my input, I asked him if news of his work could be shared. He said yes.

I have no details and expect none until there a program is actually rolled out. But I can say with total confidence today that Landstar is serious about getting into this market and work is underway right now to make that happen.
 
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