Trusting Iranians...

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
As I see it we're screwed either way.
1)Reject deal and Iran continues to develop the bomb. The president isn't going to start a war when he's a lame duck. So for at least a year and half of basically of Iran going unchecked.
2. Ratify treaty and in about 10 to 15 years then they can get a bomb. ...
First off, it isn't a treaty ... it's a multi-lateral executive agreement.

Secondly, as part of that agreement, Iran will adopt and ratify, the Additional Protocol to the NNPT (which is a treaty) - and agree to follow and abide by its terms from the outset - even before formal adoption and ratification.

This places Iran under a greater degree of scrutiny and monitoring than they are currently under, under the terms of the NPT itself ... even beyond the 10 to 15 year period.
 

TDave

Expert Expediter
First off, it isn't a treaty ... it's a multi-lateral executive agreement.

Secondly, as part of that agreement, Iran will adopt and ratify, the Additional Protocol to the NNPT (which is a treaty) - and agree to follow and abide by its terms from the outset - even before formal adoption and ratification.

This places Iran under a greater degree of scrutiny and monitoring than they are currently under, under the terms of the NPT itself ... even beyond the 10 to 15 year period.

Umm wrong choice of words by saying treaty... it just seems we are agreeing to kick the bucket down the road. Don't get me wrong I much rather have a treaty in place and avoid an other war especially in that area of the world.
 
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LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Yes, and what can possibly go wrong what with them being given several weeks notice ahead of inspections and them doing their own inspecting.
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Umm wrong choice of words by saying treaty... it just seems we are agreeing to kick the bucket down the road.
Not really ...

The agreement (and Iran's adoption of The Additional Protocol) provide a way for Iran to demonstrate their good faith and willingness to subject themselves to international standards that are agreed upon by the international community as a whole.

And that is really what some are worried about: ... that they will actually live up to their obligations ...

Kind of hard to demonize someone when they are actually found to be complying ...

Don't worry tho' ... some will try ...

Don't get me wrong I much rather have a treaty in place and avoid an other war especially in that area of the world.
Agreed.
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Yes, and what can possibly go wrong what with them being given several weeks notice ahead of inspections and them doing their own inspecting.
Mischaracterization of the actual situation ... probably based on ignorance of the type found on right-wing whack-a-doodle websites ....
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Some interesting data to the ongoing litany of conversation produced by the usual suspects, in all due respect..
May 2015: Six Nation Treaty with Iran: What Does it Mean? - Maoz Israel
Unfortunately, the article contains a number of misrepresentations of actual facts - in just the first couple of paragraphs - that are easily verified as distortions or misrepresentations of the truth, so as to render it as not credible.

Of course, that probably isn't anything the ignorant and uninformed can easily discern ...

BTW, at this point - barring any back-tracking or last minute changes in how folks will vote - the deal with Iran is a fait accompli ...

At the very minimum, any resolution of disapproval passed by Congress will be veto'ed and that veto will be upheld - they have the votes to do it.

But it's also possible that they may secure enough votes to filibuster the bill in the Senate and prevent it from even coming to a vote in the first place.
 
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Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It will be interesting to see if Gwen Iffil is allowed to play any kind of role in future political debates or interviews.
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
It will be interesting to see if Gwen Iffil is allowed to play any kind of role in future political debates or interviews.
She will. The outrage over her reTweet is along the same lines as the outrage over Trump's Blood "coming out of wherever" statement.

"Fair question @ActForIsrael : I was RT'ing a @TheIranDeal tweet. Should have been clearer that it was their argument, not mine."

Some people nowadays aren't happy unless they're outraged over something. They get outraged at the drop of a hat, or if no hat is dropped, either way is good.
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It will be interesting to see if Gwen Iffil is allowed to play any kind of role in future political debates or interviews.
PBS's own ombudsman had a problem with her comment. The issue is that she is portrayed as an objective News Anchor on PBS, but appeared to take a particular side PUBLICLY in social media.
Excerpt of Ombudsman's comment:
.
One would have to lean way over backwards to give her the benefit of the doubt that she was simply shedding light on the administration’s view of portions of Netanyahu’s arguments. But to personalize it by saying, “Take that, Bibi” is, in my book, inexcusable for an experienced journalist who is the co-anchor of a nightly news program watched by millions of people over the course of any week.

It is not the first time that I have written about Ifill and tweets. Three years ago a tweet supporting a former colleague, who made an inflammatory remark apparently unaware that his microphone had not been turned off, also brought about lots of criticism.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
41 votes in the Senate against a resolution of disapproval and counting, with two still unannounced ...
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
All of the Senators are now accounted for and the head count is 58 for the resolution of disapproval and 42 against it.

That's theoretically enough to filibuster the resolution and prevent it from ever coming to a vote ... but it would require at least 41 Senators to support such a move, something that's not a foregone conclusion.
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
A thorough article by Andrew McCarthy identifies things that still can be done. Whether the Republicans will act accordingly is another thing.
Article excerpt :
.
Congress can, nevertheless, delegitimize the deal by illustrating in a powerful way that it is merely an executive agreement between Iran andObama. The sovereign — the American people — remains overwhelmingly opposed. The party to which the people have given a majority in Congress must make clear that the Iran deal is not the law of the land, and that the deal will be renounced the minute a new Republican president takes office.

Congress can delegitimize the deal by illustrating in a powerful way that it is merely an executive agreement between Iran and Obama.
To do this, a preliminary step must be taken: Congress must undo the Corker legislation’s damage.

The Corker legislation was a lapse in judgment because it gave congressional assent to the permanent lifting of U.S. sanctions absent a veto-proof majority for maintaining them — which Republicans should have known was unattainable. The fallout of this lapse could be significant if the Corker review process is allowed to proceed.

From a legal standpoint, by going forward with the review process despite Obama’s failure to comply with the Corker legislation’s terms, Congress could be seen as forgiving Obama’s default. If lawmakers then go ahead with the vote on the Iran deal that the Republican opposition must inevitably lose because of Corker’s “minority wins” process, there would be a very reasonable legal argument that the sanctions have been repealed.

Republicans cannot let that happen. If the sanctions were deemed repealed, then the next president’s position would be dramatically weakened: Not only would the sanctions have to be reinstated by new law; it would be much more difficult politically for the next president to renounce Obama’s deal. Other countries would forcefully contend that the U.S. double-crossed them — that they lifted their sanctions, and commenced commerce with Iran, in reliance on Congress’s Corker-skewed “approval” of Obama’s deal.

RELATED: Iran Nuclear Deal: Obama’s Latest Bid for a Legacy

As I have demonstrated above, it would be a violation of law to proceed with the Corker review process because (a) the administration has not complied with the Corker legislation’s mandate that the entire Iran deal be supplied to Congress by July 19 and (b) the Corker review process is explicitly limited to Iran’s nuclear program, while Obama’s deal, by contrast, goes far beyond nukes, eliminating anti-terrorism, anti–ballistic missile, and anti-weapons restrictions that the Corker legislation requires to be kept in place.

So the preliminary step that must be taken is a resolution by Congress stating that (a) the Corker review process cannot proceed because the Obama administration has failed to comply with the Corker legislation’s express conditions; (b) therefore, under the legislation’s terms, Congress cannot proceed with an up-or-down vote on the Iran deal; and (c) the sanctions remain in effect, even if they are temporarily dormant because Obama won’t enforce them.

Yes, Obama would veto the resolution (even though it is undeniable that he has not complied). But his veto would be irrelevant. Congress’s resolution explaining why no vote was taken on the Iran deal, which would pass overwhelmingly, would stand as the definitive statement to Iran and the rest of the world of why Congress has not attempted to pass a resolution of disapproval under the Corker process: It is not a matter of not having the votes; it is a matter of the president’s default. The Senate could then immediately follow that up by deeming Obama’s Iran deal as a treaty and voting it down by a wide margin.
Of course Obama would go characteristically demagogic in response. He would pretend that his default never happened and insist that Congress’s failure to enact a resolution of disapproval under the Corker framework means the sanctions are lifted forever. He would declaim that, under international law, the Security Council resolution he orchestrated before going to Congress binds our country to his Iran deal — to his empowerment of our enemies — even if our own Constitution has been flouted.

Let him rant and rave. He will only be president for another 16 months. This is now about what happens when he is gone. Obama’s arrogance and overreach have given Republicans a golden opportunity to correct their Corker misstep. They can still preserve the sanctions, preserve the NPT, and clarify that Obama’s green light to Iran on terrorism promotion and military build-up will not be worth the paper it is written on once he vacates the Oval Office.

By doing so, the GOP would not only reclaim the mantle of national security leadership; they would tee the 2016 election up as a referendum on the deeply unpopular Iran deal: Whom should the nation trust, Republicans who would sweep the Iran deal aside or Democrats who favor giving material support to an incorrigible enemy braying “Death to America”?

Even today’s breed of Republican ought to see the sense in that.

— Andrew C. McCarthy is a policy fellow at the National Review Institute.
Obama’s Iran Deal Is Still Far from Settled
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
A thorough article by Andrew McCarthy identifies things that still can be done. Whether the Republicans will act accordingly is another thing.
Another lyin' POS neocon ... whose rantings deserve to be filed in the dustbin of history ....
 
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