True Americans

[tallcal101]

Well put Hawk.
Expediting is my passion,politics is my hobby.
I'll try to keep them seperate,but there's alot of baiting going on here.I need to calm down.By the way,your are a well spoken,well educated and very well informed group of people whom I'm proud to have as partners in this business.No ##### kissing,just telling it the way I see it.

 

[Packmule]

T-Hawk,

My friend you just laid it out there, good,bad,ugly, Left and right, that about covers the situation of todays politics. The line anymore is so thin it's almost undefinable, and no one wants to admit it. Whats good for the Country is no longer the issue, it's whats good for the party and what it takes to put them in power. They will cross lines and beliefs and change as the wind blows if needed to get votes. A prime example was the Kerry/Bush debates of past election.

No it's not one party but many, as well as the power influences of other countries that in my opinion should not have an influence in our goverment, that have put us in the shape we are in today.

Can we ever be the Country we started out to be as defined in our Constitution? Or is it too late, Will we see history repeat itself as you suggested in your reveloution statement? Lets hope it does't come to that.

I will say in defense of GW, He has not waivered in his commitments to his stated direction. Was his course the right one? We don't really know yet. It has been so masked and misrepresented by opposition that we don't really know where we are.

Other Countries are loving the situation we have put ourselves in as they sit back and watch us disintergrate from within. Divide and conquer... sound familiar? But isn't it amazing how quickly we band togeather as one when we are threatened as with 911. What happened after that? Call it forgetfullness,comfort zone, or just plain Greed in politics.

Are we repeating history or making it?
Dan

 

[tallcal101]

I would respectfully like to remind Pack that there was a hue and a cry at the very begaining of W's march to victory from many sides(not a distortion)that the very headlines we are reading today would be the outcome of his ill planned invation.
Please don't confuse sour grapes with a comment about the distortion of the facts.They pretty well speak for themselves.
Military leaders get paid to lead,Presidents get paid listen to experts,then lead.W missed the most important step,he listened to Rumsfield and Cheany,politicians with axe's to grind,and dismissed the military experts.It's well documented.
Bashing the press and trying to dismiss party lines does not change one thing:The mess we are in happend on his watch.After 911,he had a chance to lead,hell,I even put a flag in my window.
What happened?

 

[Packmule]

Good question Cal...what happened? Is that flag still in your window? It may be, but somewhere your feelings and support has changed,Why I ask? What or should I say Who caused the change in your support for your country and the battles we find ourselves in.
Were the right decisions made? Ask Congress! Was GW the only one pro invasion of IRAQ? Look back at the votes, both D and R. look where Mr. Kerry stood then and what he says now. Even though Ms Clinton was a fence rider then, she still showed support for the decision to proceed.
Was the Military involved in this decision? You bet your butt it was and in a Big way! Weapons of mass destruction...what happened? Good question. Bad information? who's to blame...GW? Bottom line is We are there and we need to finish what we started or quit and show the world that we are strong out the gate, but when the going gets tuff we quit.

There has been many problems in this administration, there is no denying that, and yes I think a complete restructureing may help, but until this happens we need to support our leaders and support America.

Oh and Cal, I do respect your opinion and agree to disagree on some subjects. Isn't it great to be American.

Dan

 

[tallcal101]

Yes Dan,it is great to be an American.Never said said otherwise.As long as I pay my tax's and vote,my opinion is just as valid as the guy who drives around with Red White and Blue coming out his #######
The flag in question got transfered to my refrigerator at some point,but it's still around.I never supported Kerry,but thats another story.The only guy who voted against the war who ran,Dennis Kusinach was my man from the get go.He stood for his beliefs,and was right,and history will reflect that.
But it's history now.I have only one comment about going in strong.We did not go in strong,thats the problem.Lots of noise and fireworks,but this war has been about house to house,and an enemy that knows how to hit and run.Thats why I feel we should have found another way to box Saddam in instead of rushing to war.
Just my tax payer opinion,and Dennis K voiced the very same thing.
Now we are faced with some difficult days,more casualties,and I hope,lacking an exit stratgy from the start,some way to get out that is not a complete waste of the billions spent,not to mention the loss of lives on both sides.
Every life is a miracle,regardless of which God they pray to.

 

[ACE]

I hope when people speak of a revolution they are talking of one at the election box, and not a violent one. We are past using violence on a wide scale to settle our internal differences.

The parties are similar in many ways they both like power and they will use many different ways to stay in power. They like division so they can raise funds from their base.

We will never be the country we started as, we have changed over time and become better. Remember for an example we had slavery and women had little or no rights.

We need not worry what the world thinks they have disagreed with us many times Europe was not happy with the Monroe Doctrine which stated they could not further colonize or have bases in the western hemisphere. Countries were unhappy when we supported Panama's Independence from Columbia so we could develop the Panama canal.

We have had many conflicts with other nations in our history, and we do it for our self interest. We needed the sinking of the Maine in Cuba to spark the Spanish American war. This eliminated the Spanish influence from our hemisphere and we also received the Philippines Islands. Which expanded our influence to Asia.

We are a nation that has a great tradition of expanding our influence all over the world. It may take years for the effort to pay dividends for the sacrifice of our military and the cost to our national budget, but it has. How do you think we have become the Super Power we are.

 

[Packmule]

Cal,
I will have to agree with you on all you stated in that last post. Removing party lines and looking at what is best for our Country makes more sense to me than the he said, she said antics of politics.
I removed myself from Party affiliation during the Ragan years and look more at the man and his princables. I will have to admit I voted for GW again only because of Kerry. And if the Rep. party can provide a decent candidate I would probly vote for him against Hillary due to the fact I didn't like her last time she was President. I will have to admit I had some fiancially good years during the Clinton administration, but I did not feel a long term comfort level in our Military strenghts, and position in the world economy. I say that with foot in mouth as I look at our situation today.
I will say that even though B. Clinton did things that I did not always agree with personally, I supported him as our president and Commander and Chief until something better could come along. and yes I thought we had found that in GW. I can't help wondering how the situation GW found himself in with 911 would have been handled by B. Clinton, Al Gore, or someone else in that position. 911 changed all plans and directions for our goverment and we will never be the same.

I do agree with our Military position on standing strong against any and all agression and the best defense is a strong offense. Sometimes it takes that cowboy mentality of GW to show the world we are not going to lie down and be walked on. A weak President at this time would be the downfall of this Country.
God bless the Men and Women in our Military who feel the same and are willing to give all to insure our freedom. and without a draft!! This alone gives me hope for our future! From these Men and Women will come our leaders of tomorrow!!
Men and Women who have faced an enemy who has no regard for life, an enemy with only one goal...to kill ALL Americans,Men, women, and childern. Once you have seen this and understand the reality of it, then you know they must be stopped there before they have to be stopped on American soil. For then it may be too late.

These are my thoughts and I have no problem or animosity for those who disagree. I'm just proud to be an American.

Dan

 

[LDB]

Unfortunately there are very very few true Americans in elected offices. That is one of our greatest problems. Neither side supports the Constitution as they should. Neither side is willing to take government back to the Constitutionally authorized level. It would eliminate half the government. There is an excellent book titled "Unintended Consequences" that is a history of the United States that somehow was written prior to actually happening. It describes the revolution that is to come and the displacing and correcting of the government. If we could only elect enough 90 and 100 percenters we could correct things without conflict. Sadly, we'll either reach the conflict or we'll give ourselves away to the U.N. and others who have no business having any input or standing in our nation and government.

Leo Bricker, owner trucks 3034, 4958
OOIDA 677319
73's K5LDB
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator 1+ Years of Service
-----
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Ace... it's funny you mention the Maine. Did you know the Spanish had nothing to do with it? It was an engine/boiler explosion that sank it. We used a false rallying cry to get us in a war. Sound familiar? It should. We did it with the Lusitania during WWI. How dare those Germans sink a passenger liner... regardless of the fact that we hid ammo on board for the Brits. And then there's Pearl Harbor. Ever wonder why no carriers got hit? They happened to be in maneuvers... UNESCORTED! YEAH RIGHT!

So, when I hear talk about WMDs and all that, I chuckle, knowing every war had its Pearl Harbor or Gulf of Tonkin incident. WMDs are just this one's. Tho I think they really do exist, and currently vacationing in Syria. So... when the questions come up about WMDs and Bush's REAL agenda, I ask "Who were FDR and Wilson sleeping with???" I think you'll find it's the same partner GW is sharing his bed with.

And as for a vote actually making changes in this country? I think you overestimate those trully in power. Ballets are just a tool to placate the masses.

 

[tallcal101]

Expanding our influence is also called Nation Building.
Great when we're invited,bad news when we invade and were not invided.
Let's keep WW2 out of this,as there is no comparison.
Nation building used to be called the spreading red tide.Learn from history and you may not repeat previous mistakes in judgement.
Our system works for us,but we demean it when we impose our will and the shoe don't fit.We have managed to ##### off the entire Muslum world rather then be greeted with open hearts and minds.Great idea,bad timimg.
The UN inspectors found the same thing that our military found,nadda.
Perhaps the WMD's are are in Syria,but thats a maybe.Maybe they never existed.I don't think the big maybe has been an even trade off for our loss.I don't care how many demo's and repub's voted.Hell,their politicians(including Hillary)and no one wanted to be seen as a dove(except my man Dennis).
Another big maybe is how another party would have reacted and the success they may or may not have had.
So far,Osama is still "wanted dead or alive".I'm quite certain he got a great belly laugh out of that one.It seems we have played his hand,and not ours.
I'm sorry,I wish I could find the silver lining that some are sure is there,it just better make itself visable soon as time is running out

 

[ACE]

Dear Hawk,

I agree with you about the Maine and the many other False reasons that have caused us to go to war. Most people think this was the first time that the reasons to go to war turned out to be different than what was given.

Our leaders use these episodes to get favorable public opinion. I believe that they like the current administration did these actions to further the greatness of this country. We need to continue our expansion of capitalism and freedom to the world. I have faith in our system to continue to grow and expand and be better than we are now.

I know money has an important part in any decision, but that does not make the decision wrong because of it.

 

[Critter Truckin]

OK, being the political historian that I am, I'll offer you this. Besides the reasons that have been given for the invasion of Iraq. The invasion of Afghanistan was a given, so therefore, that point is moot. PERIOD!!!

Here's what I'm getting at. The US (contrary to popular belief) did not go into Iraq alone. The majority of help came from the UK. The US and UK both, sited UN Resolution 1441. Which reads (not verbatim) that Iraq had illegal weapons as agreed upon to the accords of the Iraqi surrender after the Persian Gulf War. And, that Iraq took shots at UN sanctioned enforcement of the prescribed no-fly zones in the northern and southern portions of Iraq.

With all that being said, I am satisfied that the US and UK were justified and legal in their invasions of Iraq. Everyone else was jumping on the happy folks band wagon.

Speaking of band wagons... It would seem that TallCall is being ferried along with France, Germany, Canada (sorry guys), Russia, and almost every other European country that I wouldn't take a leak on if they were on fire. That's right, they are getting the free ride and the UN is the mother-lovin, flip-flop more than John Kerrey on the environment, pretentiousness band wagon. In other words, they all stink, but more people that stink smell better than the ones that might actually be right.

Oh yeah, ya know why France and Germany didn't want the US and UK to invade? There goes their illegal profits on the UN sanctioned Oil-for-Food campaign. Yeah, nothing like a couple million Eurodollars a year being shot straight to Hell, right along with your international credibility.

People wonder why I hate politics so much... That's why I studied them for so long.

 

[greg334]

Ok I can’t hold back. Seeing this went from a patriotic thread to, well let’s just say I can’t hold back.

First I have to add to T-Hawk’s comments; the Maine was the rallying cry for the public. Hearst (you know William Randolph – not Patty) and Pulitzer (not the prize) actually got the ball rolling with the war by reporting about the Cuban insurrection (a real one not the misstated one in Iraq) to increase circulation. The pictures of the Cubans in Camps, the reports of the atrocities within the cities, the other reports of Spanish raping/killing (all this sound familiar?) was reported as factual by both media organizations were in fact staged. Does the term Yellow Journalism still hold true today as it did then? Remember that the Media is the real enemy.

Second I have to add that we are not alone in Iraq, here are some of the countries that are there in one form or another as of TODAY; Albania, Armenia, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Estonia, Fiji, Georgia, Italy, Japan, Kazakhstan, Kingdom of Tonga, South Korea, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Mongolia, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, United Kingdom, and Ukraine. Take a real good look at this list, it shows that even some of the smallest and poorest countries want to see success. Did W have a lot to do with them, not really – look at the list how many of these countries did we help long before W got in office? How many have some form of democracy? How many are not on Halliburton’s payroll?

Third, let’s see? Oh yea, WMD’s. Sorry for those who don’t believe that they didn’t exist or Iraq could not produce them, you’re **** - edited for purposes of civility - ****. Any one with some chemical education and the simple tools can produce WMDs in a quantity to kill a lot of people without spending a lot of money. See that is someone who has some money, imagine that you are a head of a country that has Billions and schools with really smart people, do you think that it is not possible to produce and hide WMDs without many knowing about it? Of course you can.

Well I can go on but I am too tired. I will post later…


One last thing, I agree with most of Leo's first post, there is one that some how rubs me the wrong way and I won't mention it - so I assume I am not a true American.

 

[tallcal101]

There you go Critter,blowing smoke again(up my you know what).
One stinking question,it should be easy for a scholor like you to answer.
HOW MANY AMERICANS HAVE TO DIE BEFORE ENOUGH IS ENOUGH???????
I don't give a rats a** about the 5% of Bush's kiss a** buddies who are now mostly pulling out(they got smart).
One other question?What about N Korea?What about Iran?Both in violation of the same UN rules/IAEC violations(you mostly bash the UN,when did they become your friends).If you want it both ways,and we are the policemen of the world,we all better sell our trucks and join up,cause we are quickly running out of soldiers!!
I love how you continue to interject Kerry and other leftie's to divert who got us into this mess,very creative.
I know,it's all those ##### Germans and Frenchmen's fault.If they had just entered this catostrophic mess,all would be well in Bushyland.
It's going to hell in hand basket my friend,like it or not.Take a l ook at the news(Fox seems not be reporting the same news as everyone else)
Go figure.

 

[tallcal101]

Now Greg,dumb is getting personal.No name calling,remember?
Catch up on your sleep,I will excuse it this time.

 

[greg334]

HOW MANY AMERICANS HAVE TO DIE BEFORE ENOUGH IS ENOUGH?

A lot!

You see a lot of you liberals will complain about a war in the Middle East but fail to really understand what a lot of it is really about. This is a culture war; it can be considered a religious war that very few understand but it is a real war and I am glad it is over there and not here. This mess was caused by a peanut farmer in 1976, not today. Until that time, America did not show fear or weakness on the political front. Look at him today, what a joke!

Why do I think more will die? Well here is why.

First the media (the true fifth column), second with an enemy most don’t understand and last with entities that outlived their existence (i.e. UN) who have controlled us for a while through conventions, treaties and such. They are the true cause of our military becoming a police force, not a defending force in the world. They are also the reason why we have not invaded Iran in the 1970’s and nuked some other countries, we are afraid of p***ing off some little country on the UN security council. I can add one thing; Israel will not hesitate to wipe out Iran if they find evidence of Nukes, so why worry about it.

But I digress,

We think it is our right to know everything that our government is doing to protect us, we allow others to tell us what we must think (press, Democrats, Air America, Rush) and we capitulate when forced to accept what is said under the premise of freedom of the press but forget and turn a blind eye toward the responsibility that goes with this one of the five core freedoms, the responsibility to protect our country and our given freedoms above all.

The plain and simple truth is that we as a country, not a country of immigrants but of Americans are failing to see the erosion of our culture to the abyss, never to return. From inside this erosion is taking place oh so slowly but distinctly that we fail to see a lot of it, first it is you must accept them, then it is change the laws for them and then – you fill in the blanks. We have become complacent with this erosion, sometimes even welcoming it and accepting others who want to kill us (Taliban official at Yale) all because of the words ‘diversity’, ‘multi-culturelism’ and ‘immigration’ and ‘anti-defamation’. When other countries are truly trying to emulate our culture, we don’t seem to care what happens to ours.

We as citizens are failing to uphold our responsibility to support those who are fighting for the very existence of our country and speak up against those who, for a lack of a better word, hate America within our own population. We make allowances for many American haters, to the point where we classify them by past history and political correctness then hate some and welcome others.

We have been forced, yes forced into allowing things to happen that would never have happened if we had unification within our borders. We now have invaders being given more and more rights, we allow enemies of our country to address grievances in our courts for things that never happened on our soil, we view our enemy as someone who is as civil as we are when they are nothing but animals, we focus on issues that have little effect on us but fail to see how we know about these issues in the first place. But the biggest thing is that we have allowed our complacency to give the tools to others to twist our constitution to fit the needs of the few over the needs of the many, eliminate or restricting some of our rights and through political correctness stifle true freedoms of speech and expression.

I still don’t think I am a true American by Leo’s post.

 

[ACE]

Dear Tallcal101,

Would you of favored the the invasion of Iraq if a Democrat was President ?

I believe that Iraq had WMD's. I believe that the world was losing the stamina to enforce the sanctions on Irag. I believe that if the sanctions were lifted Saddam would of continued to threaten his neighbors. I believe Saddam would of continued to kill his citizens in greater numbers than before. I believe we needed to establish a bigger foot print in the middle east with ally other than Israel , and I believe Iraq will be this ally.

We needed to remove him from power in Irag.

Iran and North Korea will be dealt with by our elected officials in a way that will further the growth and security of our Nation. This will be done with all options being available to them. This situation will be handled by both Democrat and Republican Administrations, like the Soviet Union was.

 

[tallcal101]

What if your wrong?

 

[Tennesseahawk]

So you're not willing to take chances? What if he's right? The majority of Iraq has already accepted that getting rid of Saddam was the best. Tho they don't really want us there, they accept the fact that this is leading to a better future for them. The same things were said during the American occupation of Japan and Germany after WW2. And ppl fail to realize it took DECADES before we could leave there, occupation-wise.

If he's wrong, civil war breaks out in Iraq, after we leave. The middle east will hate us as they always have. Afghanistan will either turn back into a recluse dictatorship, or become a drug producing nation of warlords. Iran will have its nukes, as the UN will back down like it always does. And the world's terrorists will see America as being weak, and continue to try to kill us all.

So, in other words... we CANNOT fail. That's why we have to stop worrying about pull-out dates, and let those who are doing their jobs to continue.

 

[tallcal101]

Afternoon Hawk:
1.The civil war has started.It will be a miracle if the cleric's can put things back on track.Although the elections were very positive,they mean nothing if the disenfranchised(as they percieve themselves)don't stop destroying religious place's of worship.They are Muslums first and sectarian Muslums at that.It's a little like the religious factions in Northern Ireland,and we know how well they get along.Same Christ,different notions of him.
Throw in the Kurds and the Chistians,and you have quite a tiger by the tail.
We have never been loved there,and lets face it,no one is better off with the mess there now.Still no sewers,no air conditioning,no oil,no anything.Sadam was a punk,had no hand in 911, who Cheany and Rumsfield wanted to take down.He was no great threat.He did not count when N Korea and Iran are for real.
2.Afghanistan is producing 5 times more poppie's today then they were 5 years ago.We sold the people down the river and the war lords cut a fat deal with the US in exchage for providing worthless intellegence on Bin Laden.He got away.So that one don't carry water.
3.The UN really has nothing to do with any of this other then they suggested we wait another 6 months and let the inspectors finish their job.Should have waited.Violations of the no fly zone were a
joke,everyone knows that.Their attempt to shoot down our aircraft was like trying to kill a honker with a bb gun.It's all propaganda ,once again,for Cheany and Rumsfeld to grind old axe's.
4.AS a result of our invasion,we have created thousands of more terrorists,and played right into Osamas hands.
So,where's the good news.
We waited to long in Viet Naum,let's not wait to long this time.
No disrespect to Vets,many of whom agree with me.