Tolerence or Intolerence....
- Thread starter chefdennis
- Start date
The thing is too **** close and at 15 stories will impose and overlook the area. It's an "in your face" and that's what it's meant to be. It should be far enough away to not be seen from ground zero. Either you (you referring to everyone not specific individuals) are intelligent enough and able to see it or you aren't. If you aren't then you'll defend it forever and too bad for you that you can't see clearly. That's what's wrong with it and why it shouldn't be allowed.
dieseldiva
Veteran Expediter
It's come out today that these folks don't even own ALL of the property that they're wanting to build the mosque on....read the link.
Turtle made my point before I could: everyone is blaming the actions of religious fanatics on the religion. How would those of you who are Christian like to be linked inextricably [in the public view] with the lunatics amongst your religion? Like, say, Donald Wildmon? Or the abortion clinic bombers?
It wasn't 'a religion' that brought down the towers!
Why the bereaved families have any say whatsoever is just beyond me - they lost no more [or less] than every other person who has lost a loved one. Whether the loss was due to terrorism, homicide, suicide, accident, or illness, the end result is the same for every one of us left behind, is it not?
I for one am sick of the attitude that they are 'special', cause I don't see it.
It wasn't 'a religion' that brought down the towers!
Why the bereaved families have any say whatsoever is just beyond me - they lost no more [or less] than every other person who has lost a loved one. Whether the loss was due to terrorism, homicide, suicide, accident, or illness, the end result is the same for every one of us left behind, is it not?
I for one am sick of the attitude that they are 'special', cause I don't see it.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Cheri, I think the clinic bombers are not the right group to use, they are limited in their nature and scope.
I mean take The westboro Baptist church and "reverend" Phelps. This is the perfect example of fanaticism without reservation. This church I have heard very little from the Christian community that they condemn the actions of their 'protests', the baptist community itself seems not to be quick to distance themselves so it looks like a lot of Baptist Christians support the actions of this church.
I mean take The westboro Baptist church and "reverend" Phelps. This is the perfect example of fanaticism without reservation. This church I have heard very little from the Christian community that they condemn the actions of their 'protests', the baptist community itself seems not to be quick to distance themselves so it looks like a lot of Baptist Christians support the actions of this church.
dieseldiva
Veteran Expediter
I ALREADY HAVE been linked....by my government a short year ago!
Shortly after the DHS put this list out, we were in California and a young man noticed the Gadsden flag that I have. He said he bought his after he came home from Afghanistan and saw that he was on the list as a returning Vet.
The point being, it's a free for all on Christians and Conservatives because of our "beliefs" so yea, I know what that's like.
dieseldiva
Veteran Expediter
That comparison is ridiculous and you know it. Perhaps you didn't "hear" anything about it because the media outlets you observe didn't cover that angle of it. I saw all kinds of stuff about it online...from news to petitions.
This thread has taken a ridiculous turn.
dieseldiva
Veteran Expediter
I disagree. I made the point before that it's a burial ground for many that did not receive ANY remains. I lost my kid brother to cancer a few years back. I did not watch on TV as his body was literally ripped apart and buried and burned in rubble. I was by his side as he was sick and then in the end when he passed. I had months to say any and all things that needed to be said. Do I think his death was less tragic than those in the towers? Yes, I do. The devastation to me was no less than what their survivors feel but the WAY it happened adds to their grief.
Do you KNOW anyone that lost someone on that day? I do and I can guarantee that "special" is the LAST thing that this family feels.
dieseldiva
Veteran Expediter
All churches are political activists. They are constantly sticking their noses in other people's business for political purposes. Should only those churches who's political activist activities meet with your approval be allowed to have religious accreditation?
Of course they're churches. And they're Christian churches. We can us the same logic that is applied to Jews and Muslims and deduce, without any reservation whatsoever, that all Christians are like the Rev. Wright crowd. It's not the people within the religion that matters, it's the religion as a whole, and therefore all people within a given religion are the same. All Christians are the same, so are all Muslims.
That's the argument that's being made here be some people. And it's the actual definition of hypocrisy.
Personally, I think they should be able to build a mosque anywhere they want to. I also think it's pretty stupid to build one where it will engender hatred, and likely, violence. Someone will figure what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and a car bomb will take down that mosque, which will be an attack on Islam, same a a church bombing in the South is an attack on Christianity. It the band plays on.
You're quite smart and quite knowledgeable about many things however you are wrong in this instance. Many/most churches ARE NOT political activist centers like Westboro and Wright's place. Yes, some others are as well and those also should lose their church status if they spew/preach more hate and anti-American sermons than they do religious sermons.
Well, no, they're not LIKE Westboro and Wright, in that they all do and say the same exact things, but they are the same in that regard in varying degrees, some more or less extreme than the Wright crowd, is all. They all, even the allegedly apolotical churches, still foster their members to go out and tell others how to live, what to think and what to do. That's political. Religion and politics are just two sides of the same coin, and everybody gets to coin their own currency. The only true religion is the one you agree with. Same with politics.
Westboro actually has no accreditation from any denomination, Baptist or otherwise. It's a stand-alone hate group comprised of Fred Phelps and his family members and in-laws. This cult has been thoroughly denounced by other Christian and Jewish organizations in addition to being picketed and counter-protested on numerous occasions. This group is a prime example of a wacko and his family of loonies that promote a political mission disguised as "religion".
What differentiates these Christian radicals from muslim radicals is that (a) mainstream Christians will readily denounce them and their messages of hate and intolerance, and (b) there are not nearly so many of them compared to radical muslims. Any opposition to radical islam by its mainstream followers is tepid at best; considering their numbers around the world, their silence toward their jihadist brothers is deafening.
Keep in mind, these are people who put riotous mobs in the streets of numerous countries because of some cartoons in an obscure Danish newspaper. How about the fatwah issued against Salmon Rushdie for his novel Satanic Verses? All good muslims were instructed by the infamous but influential Ayatollah Khomeini to either kill or assist in the death of Rushdie and those connected to the publishing of the book. To date, Rushdie is still with us but 38 others have been killed due to violence related to the book's publication.
Question: how many fatwahs have been issued by influential muslim leaders directing their followers to either kill or assist in the deaths of Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri or other radical islamo-fascists that have caused the deaths of innocents worldwide? Considering the influence these leaders have, they could probably go a long way toward eliminating the support given the radicals by the general population of muslim countries. Instead, they gladly take the American dollars paid to them for their oil, send their rich sons over here for their American education, yet at the same time build mosques and madrasas that preach sharia law and a message of hate and intolerance for their American benefactors. Bottom line is, the Christian radicals are just not the same threat as the jihadists. Phelps and Rev. Wright are just obnoxious and annoying; when they start beheading people on the internet we'll have something to talk about.
"OK, I'm being overly dramatic, but just barely"
A little more than just barely. More like a fair bit.
No, it's just barely. Muslims, radicals especially, operate under their religion, and so does our military. We're a Christian nation, founded by Christians (as so often gets point out here and many other places), and our military reflects that in how and what they do.
Muslims are wrong, they're bad, bad, bad. Evil, even. Each and every one of them. But we're good, right and just. We fight the good fight. We do no wrong, because we're Christians in a Christian nation founded by Christians (except that no account Atheist, Thomas Jefferson). And we're all good, except the Christians who aren't true Christians, even though they are.
What "radical" Christians were you speaking of? You kinda lost me there.
We don't allow our troops to fire back at Mosques when they are fired on from them every day. We do not allow our troops to pursue enemy combatants into mosques when they retreat into them when they are being chased. We don't allow our troops to chase people into private home that they see planting IED's , unless fired upon. So on and so forth.
In other words, we are not intentionally targeting civilians which is EXACTLY what our enemy is doing. They did it on 9/11 and continue to do it daily. There is a huge difference in how we are fighting this and how our enemy is. That difference has NOTHING to do with ANY Christian religion. There are Muslims, Jews, Christians, atheists, and who know what others fighting in our military. It is NOT a "Christian" military.
We don't allow our troops to fire back at Mosques when they are fired on from them every day. We do not allow our troops to pursue enemy combatants into mosques when they retreat into them when they are being chased. We don't allow our troops to chase people into private home that they see planting IED's , unless fired upon. So on and so forth.
In other words, we are not intentionally targeting civilians which is EXACTLY what our enemy is doing. They did it on 9/11 and continue to do it daily. There is a huge difference in how we are fighting this and how our enemy is. That difference has NOTHING to do with ANY Christian religion. There are Muslims, Jews, Christians, atheists, and who know what others fighting in our military. It is NOT a "Christian" military.
Out military reflects us as a nation directly. It gets it's marching orders from the morals and values of this nation, which came from the morals and values of the people who founded this nation. Everyone in the nation isn't a Christian, but there's no denying that it's a Christian nation, as those are the morals and values that, for the most part, guide us as a nation. And the military is an extension of us. So you can't say it's not a Christian military, and in the literal sense that's true, but in every other way that matters, it absolutely is.