These Are OUR Leaders of Tomorrow..

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
Sue I posted this a while back. It might give you some insight in our Government using tax dollars to help those in need, for whatever reason they find themselves in need.

It is a long read but well worth it.

Not Yours To Give

Col. David Crockett
US Representative from Tennessee


Originally published in "The Life of Colonel David Crockett,"
by Edward Sylvester Ellis.

Not Yours To Give - Colonel Davy Crockett


Thank you Dennis .....

Didn't they speak well back then and soooo polite :p

But I still don't see it is right to leave a destitute family in misery hoping that each member of Congress will forfeit a weeks pay.

Take the recent Tornado and Flood disasters ...... isn't it right for G'ment to help these ppl out?

I guess I am still at a loss as to what your G'ment actually does :eek:
 

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Take the recent Tornado and Flood disasters ...... isn't it right for G'ment to help these ppl out?

I guess I am still at a loss as to what your G'ment actually does :eek:

Is it right of them to expect the help, no.

Is it the right thing to do, of course.

2 different things.
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
Is it right of them to expect the help, no.

Is it the right thing to do, of course.

2 different things.



But if they are "all paid up" on everything why shouldn't they expect help? :confused:

Besides paying for all the usual departments etc...etc.... that a G'ment have, what else do we pay Fed tax for?

Is there not a "stand by kitty" for such emergencies as the recent one's mentioned? :confused:
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
No it is NOT the right thing to do to use TAX dollars to help them...there is no where in the Constitution that give the government any means to do that at all....just was said, just because the government passes a law, doen't mean it is Constitutional nor does it make the actions that would come from a unconstitutional law legal or the right thing to do....tax dollarsare not to be taken from one to give to the other for any reason.....

Read the quote in my "tagline" from Walter Williams on charity and theft....and also read the link for the story from Davy Crockett...
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
No it is NOT the right thing to do to use TAX dollars to help them...there is no where in the Constitution that give the government any means to do that at all....just was said, just because the government passes a law, doen't mean it is Constitutional nor does it make the actions that would come from a unconstitutional law legal or the right thing to do....tax dollarsare not to be taken from one to give to the other for any reason.....

Read the quote in my "tagline" from Walter Williams on charity and theft....and also read the link for the story from Davy Crockett...

Hence my asking what the Fed Taxes that we pay are for Dennis .........

"Is there not a "stand by kitty" for such emergencies as the recent one's mentioned? "

btw thank you all for answering my questions :)
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
O M G !!

Sue, here is the thing, the problem isn't with the soviets it is a small partial problem with a philosophy of teaching which got it roots before Marx published his manifesto.

If I would explain everything from Marx to Teddy Roosevelt to Johnson to todays children where there parents thought they taught them right, I would have so much stuff to write it would bore you to death and I don't want you to die.

The real problem is society is changing and because many will attribute it to a political ideology - right/left conservative/liberal - they mask the real underlying issues of why kids today don't feel it is their responsibility to repay things or to play by the rules.

The truth is somewhere there but it isn't because some professors are left leaning or that Johnson and the great society caused people to become life long welfare recipients or anything like that - much of what is taught is taught by example outside the schools. It could be that a majority of parents are poor examples for their children. Maybe it could be that we see everyone get all upset with things like ... for example the housing market and how easy people just give up their homes and find another one. It could be simple stuff like how selfish the parents are or how their principles are 'adjusted' when they need to be.

Realistically speaking, our educators are not too off the mark in this country when it comes to teaching kids. We don't have poorly taught kids because of the schools, we have them because of the parents and their involvement or lack of putting it in a better way. putting a political ideology spin on it, I don't see a right leaning parent being active about issues as I do left leaning ones. I keep hearing how horrible the schools are but how many parents take their kids out of public school and teach them at home the proper principles? I would guess not too many are willing to do that to properly teach their kids. I hear excuses why they don't but thats just it, they are excuses.
 

EASYTRADER

Expert Expediter
Americans are NOT supposed to want help from the government. That's the whole point. The Gov of the US is supposed to have LIMITED powers. The Federal Gov was put in place to "Provide for a Common Defence" regulate foreigh affairs and interstae commerce.

Its not a question of Why. It just is.

The State Gov. were supposed to be Independant States. That's why they all have their own "Constitutions"

The whole point of the United States is that people should be left alone to do their own thing. Suceed or fail, either way on their own.

The rest of the world is setup so people can sponge off each other. If you are in the US and want government help move to canada. Leave us alone to be free or at least to try and regain our freedom.


Posted with my Droid EO Forum App
 

EASYTRADER

Expert Expediter
As for your tax question, for the first 130 years or s their wasn't any federal income tax. Indivduals didn't start paying the Federal Gov until the dawn of socialism made it "Ok" to steal peopels earnings but only if they were rich. I believe Woodrow Wilson was Pres when the income tax was passed.

If the federal Gov was restricted to its proper role there would be no need for high taxes.

Posted with my Droid EO Forum App
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Greg, it is not only about parents not taking part. When parents do take part, complain about what or how their kids are being taught are going to be shot down.

Many school systems, the NEA etc, believe that THEY have the authority to determine what and how kids will be taught. They do NOT believe that they are employees of the people.
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
Thank you everyone.

It is good to hear different comments on a particular subject so that one can make up one's own mind.

Thank you EasyTrader I did not know that about each State having its own Constitution. Makes more sense to me now :)

again thanks to you all :)
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
Does not a new Droid or Blackberry solve all I problems? I must have been misinformed again, imagine that. Facinating and me .
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Americans are NOT supposed to want help from the government. That's the whole point. The Gov of the US is supposed to have LIMITED powers.

OK that may have been true say in 1830 but not today nor even in the 1920's.

The point is that we are a lazy society and the government problems are all because of our own fault and no one else can be blamed.

The Federal Gov was put in place to "Provide for a Common Defence" regulate foreigh affairs and interstae commerce.

It is a bit more complex than that, it was formed to replace the English government and limitedly govern the states so they will play nice with each other, not the individual.

Its not a question of Why. It just is.

Well no, it is the exact question we as a nation should be asking - WHY?

If we ever get to that point, then we can ask how can it be fixed?

The State Gov. were supposed to be Independant States. That's why they all have their own "Constitutions"

Well sort of. They are supposed to be independent to a point but that point is limited to say trying to regulate interstate commerce or picking senators who represent the state. California is a great example of regulating interstate commerce based on emissions of outside trucks. The constitution is absolutely clear, California can't regulate interstate commerce which in other words prevent a person from entering the state as a transporter for interstate commerce. This is like telling Juan with his burro to bring goods sold to someone in California that he can't enter because the burro may poop in California.

By the way some states entered the union under a treaty, and others are commonwealths which is a different issues altogether. If one learns about the Russian federation and how it works, it is a lot like how the US is supposed to work.

The whole point of the United States is that people should be left alone to do their own thing. Suceed or fail, either way on their own.

Well got to tell you that even in the best of times, a person was not left alone to do their own thing. Even under Jackson, which was the best of times for individual rights, there were a lot of things that were done to restrict people from doing their own thing.

The rest of the world is setup so people can sponge off each other. If you are in the US and want government help move to canada. Leave us alone to be free or at least to try and regain our freedom.

Sponge off of each other?

Seriously?

This is a myopic view of the world and the history of man.

As for your tax question, for the first 130 years or s their wasn't any federal income tax.

True to a point, there was in the 1860s and then another attempt in the 1890s but until congress pushed for passage of the 16th amendment and got it signed under Taft, we didn't have to pay income tax.

Indivduals didn't start paying the Federal Gov until the dawn of socialism made it "Ok" to steal peopels earnings but only if they were rich. I believe Woodrow Wilson was Pres when the income tax was passed.

The dawn of socialism?

Seriously?

How about the dawn of the progressive movement or better yet the dawn of Lincoln's style federalism.

Lincoln, the great emancipator enslaved the country by his actions. Since the war between the states, we have faced a problem where instead of what is considered a dual federalist form of government, we have a Lincoln style form of federalist government. THIS is not socialism at all.

If the federal Gov was restricted to its proper role there would be no need for high taxes.

The spending is our fault, maybe we need to eliminate social security and the related programs to reduce our burden because the country is broke. Then we can examine the role of the federal government and what taxes we really need. By the way, we don't pay high taxes as we did, it may seem that way but there were a lot of hidden taxes with a lot of things from programs like the TVA, NRA and other things that were supposed to help us.

Greg, it is not only about parents not taking part. When parents do take part, complain about what or how their kids are being taught are going to be shot down.

It is the parents fault, there is not one parent who can claim to have no part in their child's education or the outcome. It is not about complaining, complaining is meaningless, and like this industry, parents need to get together as a group and fight for control.

Many school systems, the NEA etc, believe that THEY have the authority to determine what and how kids will be taught. They do NOT believe that they are employees of the people.

Yep I agree, but it has been that way since public schools have been around, it is an elitist attitude that prevails within the schools and I got to think that this has never been about the child or the education but the money, from pre-school to university - all seem to be motivated by money. IF you want to know more, look at the GI bill and how that expanded colleges and universities not to educate GIs but to make money.

You may notice I am all for France's style of education - the money follows the kid - but people bulk at that idea. As I described the system they have, I get the same BS "I pay taxes to support my school district and I want my kid to get the best education they get from them without having other kids come in out of district to go to school", how stupid does that sound?

It begs the question - how can a kid who has an average IQ be home schooled by nearly illiterate parents then become a multiple scholarship winner and ace a masters degree in an accelerated time? It isn't because the kid is special or high IQ but the parent was totally involved.
 
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