DougTravels
Not a Member
I was not born into a rich and powerful family. I never had political ambitions either.
Your point was that I was never President of the United States?
GOOD ONE!!
Thank you Captain obvious!
the tycoon, the quarterback and the comedian
- Thread starter LDB
- Start date
I was not born into a rich and powerful family. I never had political ambitions either.
Your point was that I was never President of the United States?
GOOD ONE!!
Thank you Captain obvious!
Shockingly, I do, too. Letterman screwed up by not knowing for sure which daughter it was.
Well, it's not a case of Letterman not having a major history of lying, it's that he has no history of lying whatsoever, be it major or minor, at least not in connection with his role on television (lies in other aspects of his life, I have no idea). To say that he's not a saint and therefore might bend the truth if need be, and then use that as justification that he's lying now, is at the very least a stretch of wishfullness. Sure, the possibility exists that he may have chosen this to be the time for his first lie, but it's not very probable.
Everything else up there I agree with. But it's all conjecture, it's all assumption when you allow for "may or may not have known," and then railroad that straight into "he did know" and then lambaste him for what you say he knew. There are simply too many unknown possibilities to make an absolute determination. Even taking into account the most likely scenario isn't enough to make an accusation like the one which has been leveled here.
The daughter really and truly wasn't the focus of the joke, it was Palin's hypocrisy and A Rod's promiscuity, but they needed a way to tie it all together, and the daughter was the logical, and the easiest and most expedient, choice with which to do it. In the minds of the writers they may not have felt it made any difference which daughter it was, since they were focusing on the premise and the punchline, then simply used the daughter to connect the two. That's how comedy works. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it does't, like in this case where it really, really didn't work, but that's the most likely scnenario of how it happened.
Letterman almost certainly wasn't involved in the joke writing process. It has been shown (in various behind the scenes pieces), and stated by both, that Letterman and Leno will often read the jokes off the que cards cold, although most of the time they will give the cards a quick read before the show starts. Often the monologue is rewritten and edited right up until the last minute.
Well, he's already apologized for not knowing which daughter it was. What else is he suppose to apologize for? If there's something else he needs to apologize for, then he must be lying about it. Yet there's no reason to believe he's lying in this instance.
Incidentally, Palin and "batboy whoever" were both named, by name, as subjects in the joke. The daughter was not. To state that "batboy whoever" was not subject in the joke, and the daugher was, is a rewriting of the joke. In this case a rewriting to suit the purpose of a feeding frenzy in order to do the same exact thing that conservatives are whining about. The message was rewritten and reformed into something that could be used to beat the messenger over the head with. It's classic irony at its finest.
If conservatives actually had the morals and principles that they hold so dear, they would have simply dismissed Letterman for the comic buffon that he is would have moved on to something important.
I did that already and don't want to type it all in again, so click and read:
A turtle explains how a daughter's actions are the sign of Sarah Palin's hypocrisy - Film At Eleven
I'm not into baseball so batboy whoever is as close as I get to knowing the guy's name. You believe the joke was meant one way. I and apparently a whole heck of a lot of other people believe it was another way. I heard the apology. Not just the short version that's been repeated numerous times but also the long version that's hardly been played. He didn't apologize. He brought an apology out and waltzed all around it and found a few more jokes on the dance floor with it but he never took the apology in his arms and danced with it. Unless there's something that hasn't been aired yet, or that I've missed the airing of, I'm not convinced by what was said and done that I've seen and heard.
tallcal101
Veteran Expediter
Whats missing here,and why I brought it up,was Palins response on the Today show.Her peoplel released a statement she would not do Lettermans show as she did not want her daughter close to David, Implication? He's a pervert!!
To make matters worse, when Matt pressed her,she said make up your own mind about the implication.Really stupid,realy,really stupid.She turned any sypmathy she may have found in the public into a serious accusation about someone perhaps being a pedaphile.Who's coaching this woman,Karl Rove?Have we not heard enough of this type of over the top attack dog crap from the last bunch? She's never going to make it if she can't toss this kind of stuff off with a comment or two and move on.But bringing this subject up is just wrong.
Buy the way Chief,love to talk music anytime,I'm a real old roadie who toured and drove for 13 years.You wanna talk the Nudg? Got some stories and they are NOT ABOUT DEER HUNTING !!
To make matters worse, when Matt pressed her,she said make up your own mind about the implication.Really stupid,realy,really stupid.She turned any sypmathy she may have found in the public into a serious accusation about someone perhaps being a pedaphile.Who's coaching this woman,Karl Rove?Have we not heard enough of this type of over the top attack dog crap from the last bunch? She's never going to make it if she can't toss this kind of stuff off with a comment or two and move on.But bringing this subject up is just wrong.
Buy the way Chief,love to talk music anytime,I'm a real old roadie who toured and drove for 13 years.You wanna talk the Nudg? Got some stories and they are NOT ABOUT DEER HUNTING !!
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No, that's OK. Batboy whoever is fine. It actually illustrates the fundamental problem of the joke, meaning, not enough people are going to "get" it.
The problem is twofold. The joke is an amalgamation of a national punchline (Palin's stance on teen sex) and what is primarily a local one (A Rod's sexual escapades), or one that might be recognizable to an avid baseball fan (of which I am one), but not to anyone else. Unless you're a local New Yorker (the greaer NYC area, including Jersey, Philly, most of New England, etc., privy to the NY press in particular), or an avid fan, you're gonna completely miss it.
The Yankees and the Mets compete daily for who will be on the front page (more accurately, the Back Page of the NY Post), much less the front page of the Sport Section. The New York press is ruthless and relentless. For example, after a game in Houston, the Astros will go into the clubhouse and they might be confronted by half a dozen reporters asking them questions about the game. In New York, the players will be confronted by 30 or more reporters asking about their personal lives and trying to dig up dirt or get a juicy comment, the game is almost an afterthought, as they're looking to get a By-Line. The Beat Writers will handle the game, they're looking for "beyond the game". As a result, the player's off-the-field activities are scrutinized and chronicled in the kind of detail that puts the Hollywood paparazzi to shame.
As a result, on the local news and in the papers, New Yorkers are constantly bombarded with the A Rod-Jeter Show and the other players on both teams (Mets, Yankees). But they are particularly ruthless with A Rod. In the Sports Section, the Yankees win in spite of A Rod, and the lose because of him.
But it is A Rod's sexual escapades that make the front page. Front page news, or at least the Back Page, A Rod seen cavorting with some babe in a bar or nightclub, despite the fact that he's married. And it's a different babe every night, which results in different headlines the next day.
Like I said, New Yorkers are bombarded with it, but so are avid baseball fans who don't even like the Yankees or the Mets, because the Sports Press Universe is centered in New York and Bristol, CT (ESPN), and that's all the New York Press talks about. It's the Yankees, the Mets, Red Sox and to a lesser degree the Phillies. If you didn't know any better you'd think the other 26 teams didn't even exist except out of the necessity to give these 4 teams someone to play. But because the New York press so obsessed with A Rod, the avid baseball fans across the country get to read about him, too. Yay.
So unless you're an East Coaster, or a big baseball fan, you're not going to know, or care, who "batboy whoever" is. And if you don't know who he is, and don't know all about his antics, there is no way you're going to "get" the joke. Ain't gonna happen, because it is, literally, an inside joke. What you will "get", though, is the parts of the joke you can understand and relate to, namely Palin and her daughter, and thus will receive the joke in that context. And that's the fundamental flaw of the joke, and is why it failed so fanstastically.
A lot of Letterman's jokes are like that, where they're funny in New York, but not really all that funny elsewhere. SNL is guilty of the same thing.
"You believe the joke was meant one way. I and apparently a whole heck of a lot of other people believe it was another way."
Precisely.
But that's the thing. He did apologize, but did so in the context of the joke, and when you and others see the joke in another context, then his apology just ain't gonna cut it. He can't really apologize for something he didn't do, merely because you think he did, no matter how strongly you believe what you believe.
Remember, "Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
And you never will be convinced. I mean, it's not your fault that you didn't get the joke. That's the fault of the joke writers, and Letterman, and their elitist East Coast attitudes. The only thing you (and others) are guilty of is refusing to be open to the possibility that the joke was intended in some way other than how you (and others) took it. Many took it wrong, but you can bet there are those who didn't take it wrong, but are conservatives participating in the current fake outrage du jour and this is their chance to pile on, just like people did with Don Imus and their fake outrage over something that didn't matter.
As for the missing discussion of Palin accusing Letterman of being a pedophile without any base for such a charge, I've brought that up several times (I'd still like to know where all the outrage is over that one, or how Palin's fanboys can be so hypocritically accepting of such outrageous behavior), so I can only assume that Tallcal has me on ignore.
Ladies and gentlemen, I made a joke in poor taste. The staff failed to determine which Palin daughter was in town and I was unaware as well. The intent of the joke was to malign Rodriguez. Unfortunately, outside the metro area that wouldn't be recognized. Additionally, and more importantly, where we thought we were using an 18 year old woman as the catalyst for slandering Rodriguez it turns out we pulled a 14 year old girl into this mess. I apologize for myself and for my staff. We deeply regret the mistake that was made and truly apologize for it.
That or something similar delivered without the periodic jokes mixed in would have cleared it up. As it is, it still is just as much on the daughter as on Rodriguez.
That or something similar delivered without the periodic jokes mixed in would have cleared it up. As it is, it still is just as much on the daughter as on Rodriguez.
"We were, as we often do, making jokes about people in the news, and we made some jokes about Sarah Palin and her daughter, the 18-year-old girl, who is — her name is Bristol, that’s right, and so, then, now they’re upset with me,"
"These are not jokes made about her 14-year-old daughter. I would never, never make jokes about raping or having sex of any description with a 14-year-old girl. I mean, look at my record. It has never happened. I don’t think it’s funny. I would never think it was funny. I wouldn’t put it in a joke."
"Am I guilty of poor taste? Yes. Did I suggest that it was okay for her 14-year-old daughter to be having promiscuous sex? No," Letterman said.
The above is just a small part it the video, actually. He went on for a full eight minutes explaining things.
But, Leo, you think he should apologize, and use that exact word, for something he didn't do but, merely because others didn't get the joke? Should he also apologize because Sarah Palin said he was a pedophile? Her charge was in response to his remarks above, actually. Given the opportunity to clarify what she meant, she confirmed it.
It's not likely that Letterman would apologize to someone who is purposely trying to defame him with an unfounded charge. His joke was in poor taste, not really even funny, an admitted mistake, but her response is borderline criminal.
In any case, bottom line is the joke got misinterpreted (largely by conservatives with an agenda, and women's groups with an agenda), and you and others are so closed-minded that you still think it was about the 14 year old. I know logic isn't the strong suit of a lot of people, but is it really and truly so hard to believe that the joke Letterman was making about a Palin daughter getting "knocked up" was about the Palin daughter who, well, uhm, like, you know, got knocked up?
You know the one I'm talking about, the one who was on the cover of People magazine a couple of weeks ago for everyone including Letterman and his staff to see, proudly wearing her graduation cap and gown while showing off her newborn, to launch her Safe Sex World Tour. The one where she's got the pretty smile, the perfect looks, the cute little baby boy, the one that belies the words on the cover and instead instantly makes her out to be the poster girl for teen mommiehood. Naaa, I'm sure none of this played any part in Letterman's joke. Besides, she's not a public figure, and is off limits.
"These are not jokes made about her 14-year-old daughter. I would never, never make jokes about raping or having sex of any description with a 14-year-old girl. I mean, look at my record. It has never happened. I don’t think it’s funny. I would never think it was funny. I wouldn’t put it in a joke."
"Am I guilty of poor taste? Yes. Did I suggest that it was okay for her 14-year-old daughter to be having promiscuous sex? No," Letterman said.
The above is just a small part it the video, actually. He went on for a full eight minutes explaining things.
But, Leo, you think he should apologize, and use that exact word, for something he didn't do but, merely because others didn't get the joke? Should he also apologize because Sarah Palin said he was a pedophile? Her charge was in response to his remarks above, actually. Given the opportunity to clarify what she meant, she confirmed it.
It's not likely that Letterman would apologize to someone who is purposely trying to defame him with an unfounded charge. His joke was in poor taste, not really even funny, an admitted mistake, but her response is borderline criminal.
In any case, bottom line is the joke got misinterpreted (largely by conservatives with an agenda, and women's groups with an agenda), and you and others are so closed-minded that you still think it was about the 14 year old. I know logic isn't the strong suit of a lot of people, but is it really and truly so hard to believe that the joke Letterman was making about a Palin daughter getting "knocked up" was about the Palin daughter who, well, uhm, like, you know, got knocked up?
You know the one I'm talking about, the one who was on the cover of People magazine a couple of weeks ago for everyone including Letterman and his staff to see, proudly wearing her graduation cap and gown while showing off her newborn, to launch her Safe Sex World Tour. The one where she's got the pretty smile, the perfect looks, the cute little baby boy, the one that belies the words on the cover and instead instantly makes her out to be the poster girl for teen mommiehood. Naaa, I'm sure none of this played any part in Letterman's joke. Besides, she's not a public figure, and is off limits.
DougTravels
Not a Member
Great Job Turtle- game set match.
Is it impossible to think he meant the cover girl? No. Is it impossible to say the joke was about anyone other than the 14 year old? Yes. She was the one at the game. It has nothing to do with being conservative. It only has to do with looking at the facts without looking through the colored glasses of intentions or anything else. Coulda/shoulda/woulda never did a darn thing. In the cold hard light of day he (maybe innocently) made a joke about a 14 year old girl that was in worse than poor taste and shouldn't have been made. Yes, I think he should apologize in a fashion very similar to the 25 second message above, not the 8 minute monologue complete with jokes that he aired that failed to fully take ownership of the situation. Oh, and the apology isn't to Palin, it's to the daughter and the audience.
What's all this fuss about hypocrisy? We're human beings. We all manifest some level of hypocrisy everyday. Because I like Sarah Palin, I am willing to give her a pass. That's hypocrisy.
No politician is going to be perfect, so we go with the best, or least harmful, we can find. I find Sarah Palin's combative style refreshing. For too long, we conservatives played nice with the liberals and it has served us poorly. We need an in-your-face ballbreaker. Namely, Sarah Palin. With the problems facing our nation, we don't need another caretaker presidency which is what we would have gotten with McCain.
Likewise, we will pay dearly for electing an ultra-liberal activist such as Barack Obama. He is taking us so far left, a correction to the right is almost preordained.
The fact Sarah Palin's teenage daughter became pregnant while Sarah was strongly advocating for teen abstinence is ironic, but not hypocritical.
Who's David Letterman?
Neither was Obama. All you have to do is be willing to sell your soul to the devil.
The fuss is that the hypocrisy is running rampant. The joke was based in part on Palin's hypocrisy, the conservatives are (rightly) screaming about the double standard in the press and the unfairness with which conservatives are treated, and then they respond by blowing a joke out of proportion and trying to make it into something it's not, and then you have Palin accusing Letterman of being a pedophile and the conservatives with their high and might morals and sense of right and wrong are dead silent about that one. The hypocrisy is just unreal.
Yeah, the fact that she got pregnant is ironic, but Palin's continued stance about the effectiveness of teaching abstinence only, and not teaching safe sex and birth control, after those methods clearly did not work in own home, becomes hypocritical. Now that Bristol is a spokesperson for safe sex and birth control, her mom is almost certainly going to have to change her stance.
In a perfect world kids would abstain, but that's not gonna happen with very many of them, so it's much better to teach them about safe sex and birth control.
Well, that's kind of my point in all of this. If David Letterman were anyone important, then his comments would be important, but he's not, so they're not. Like I said, conservatives need to move on to more important issues than worrying about what a late night TV comedian with bad ratings has to say. The more they go on about this, the better Letterman's ratings are gonna be.
Who is Andres Serrano?
Actually, he seems to be a pretty big deal with the Hollywood crowd - he's won five emmy awards for best variety comedy show (not sure of the exact award name) compared to one for the more politically conservative Jay Leno.
I'd like to make just one more brief visit to the double-standard subject, this instance involving another pregnant teenager and her family: wading into the cesspool of pop culture for a moment, remember Jamie Lynn Spears? This teenager was the star of a Nickelodean show called Zoey 101 and was portrayed as being pure as the wind-driven snow, a polar opposite to her bimbo sister Britney. As we all know, she got pregnant at age 16. Her mother Lynne - who had given her blessing to a live-in arrangement with a worthless 19 year-old boyfriend - was "shocked" to hear her little angel was with child. If ever there was a disfunctional family, this is it. All that was ever printed about this kid was the outpouring of support she was getting from her Hollywood peers, and what a fun mother she was going to be. The last word was that she has now decided to dump the kid on a nanny and maybe go to college since Viacom cancelled her TV show. Bottom line is, considering he probably did a lot of Britney material, where were the Letterman jokes about Jamie Lynn and her charming mother? Maybe Hollywood entertainers are held to a different moral standard than conservative politicians.
Abstainance is the ONLY 100% form of birth control that works. It is also the least risky. NO chance of AIDS/HIV and NO chance of STD's. Yes, it does work. It does take parents being home. AT least ONE in the house at all times. NO home alone latchkey kids. It does take living a moral life, sorry that offends some but that IS what it takes. You cannot live a "do what feels good" instant gratification life and expect good results.
Parents should teach their kids about other forms of birth control BUT stress the "keep it in your pants" approach. THEN control your kids lives to the highest degree possible. There is NO need to date at 13-14 years old. That is stupid on the parents part. Someone should be home when those kids are at ALL times to take away the oppertuntity to "do the deed".
In my opinion the hipocrasy, if you want to call it that and I do, that the Palins are guilty of is NOT raising their kids. Having the two major careers in that household, traveling for snowmobile races, running campains, cities and states left those kids alone, a lot. THERE is the problem. Forget the daycare warehouses, NO latchkey times, YOU, MOM AND DAD, have to BE THERE!!. YOU made them they are YOUR responsibility. LIVE UP TO IT!! OR, keep it in YOUR pants!!!
Also, I raised my kids, I am DONE with that. It NOT my responsibility to raise yours. It is NOT my responsibility to pay to teach them morals, birth control and responsibilty. It is NOT my respsonsibility to pay for THEIR out of wed lock kids. I am past that age. YOU parents are responsible for ALL of that. YOU pay for it. I cannot afford it!!!
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tallcal101
Veteran Expediter
I think you make a good point Pilgrim.We have not heard the last of the Spear clan,as Brittany has made a very successful come back from near death by implosion.The girl has talent when she's not doing face plants .
I think something that has been grossly over looked on this thread is the fact these late night guys go after anyone in the news who has chosen to be a public figure.They are a target by choice,and unfortunately it includes their family members.
Some,like Paris Hilton,love it. They even do midnight porno with their boy friends then leak it all over the net. Just more publicity. The public eats up and it becomes a monster that eats it's young.
Since so many public figures chose to be out there,including Palin,there's going to be slip ups,it's inevitable.Unfortunate,no 14year girl should be implicated,but it happened.The guys that feed Letterman and Leno the stories turn out tons of this stuff to feed a hungry America. That's also part of the problem. The ****ed super market rags thrive on dirt, so it follows that TV will to.I for one have never bought a copy of the Star,or the toilet paper rags that so many Americans buy.They have to be in the know on other peoples dirty laundry.It's a sick industry.No one's shocked at who's blitzing who and if Madonna wants to adopt another baby from someplace in Africa.Gotta know all about it.Some people can't get enough.
Letterman did his Mia co-pa.He didn't know which daughter it was,I'll bet the farm on it.He reads whats given to him on a prompter.Net result of all the hype surrounding this story? His ratings go up,Palins go down,and the world keeps turning.
People who don't live in California(had to get that in) can't wait to read about famous people doing human things that are mostly not true and yak to their boring friends about it. That's all this is about.If you happen to have a copy of the Enquire,The Star or People in your truck, then your part of the problem. Your money feeds the machine your *****ing about.I suggest you buy a copy of the Economist and learn something that might assist you in being worldly,thus making valuable contributions to the forum. Quit supporting the vile industry that forced us to waste so much time on this non story.
I think you get my point,not worth the time except by a few untra right wing nut jobs.
I think something that has been grossly over looked on this thread is the fact these late night guys go after anyone in the news who has chosen to be a public figure.They are a target by choice,and unfortunately it includes their family members.
Some,like Paris Hilton,love it. They even do midnight porno with their boy friends then leak it all over the net. Just more publicity. The public eats up and it becomes a monster that eats it's young.
Since so many public figures chose to be out there,including Palin,there's going to be slip ups,it's inevitable.Unfortunate,no 14year girl should be implicated,but it happened.The guys that feed Letterman and Leno the stories turn out tons of this stuff to feed a hungry America. That's also part of the problem. The ****ed super market rags thrive on dirt, so it follows that TV will to.I for one have never bought a copy of the Star,or the toilet paper rags that so many Americans buy.They have to be in the know on other peoples dirty laundry.It's a sick industry.No one's shocked at who's blitzing who and if Madonna wants to adopt another baby from someplace in Africa.Gotta know all about it.Some people can't get enough.
Letterman did his Mia co-pa.He didn't know which daughter it was,I'll bet the farm on it.He reads whats given to him on a prompter.Net result of all the hype surrounding this story? His ratings go up,Palins go down,and the world keeps turning.
People who don't live in California(had to get that in) can't wait to read about famous people doing human things that are mostly not true and yak to their boring friends about it. That's all this is about.If you happen to have a copy of the Enquire,The Star or People in your truck, then your part of the problem. Your money feeds the machine your *****ing about.I suggest you buy a copy of the Economist and learn something that might assist you in being worldly,thus making valuable contributions to the forum. Quit supporting the vile industry that forced us to waste so much time on this non story.
I think you get my point,not worth the time except by a few untra right wing nut jobs.
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I think the story here is that Palin is showing her lack of ability to be on the national stage of politics. Her response that her daughter would want to stay away from Letterman was lame. She sank to his level when anyone with common sense would rise above it.
GAWD people!! A comedian made a bad joke. Big freakin' deal!!!
GAWD people!! A comedian made a bad joke. Big freakin' deal!!!
witness23
Veteran Expediter
Absolutely correct. AMEN!!